Sandra Bland Dashboard Video Released

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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
So lets do it your way. In what world does it makes sense to have police where you can ignore them whenever you want for whatever reason you want to give. What is the point of police if they have no authority to do their job. Where ignoring them for any reason is OK.

She pulled the car over, she gave the officer her documents, and she didn't touch him until he opened her door and forced her out of the car. She certainly showed him attitude, but to suggest she was ignoring him and 'doing whatever she wanted' is absolutely vile.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
She pulled the car over, she gave the officer her documents, and she didn't touch him until he opened her door and forced her out of the car. She certainly showed him attitude, but to suggest she was ignoring him and 'doing whatever she wanted' is absolutely vile.

To claim that she didn't disobey his requests is absolutely vile.

Oh, you want to get all pedantic on me for using the word ignore. Fine...enjoy.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Uh boy.

Seems either party might've diffused this by just taking a step back. The lady was determined to fight and the cop was too.

Speaking for myself, I'd have just taken the ticket and left.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Uh boy.

Seems either party might've diffused this by just taking a step back. The lady was determined to fight and the cop was too.

Speaking for myself, I'd have just taken the ticket and left.

Then it's the cop's fault. After all, she couldn't exactly take a step back. :whiste:
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Then it's the cop's fault. After all, she couldn't exactly take a step back. :whiste:

Sure she could. She could've just kept her mouth shut. The cop, on the other hand, might've just said "This isn't worth enflaming the US in another race war. Just issue the damned ticket and leave."
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
In a way, she also confronted him like a power tripping asshole.

Her exit of society was nothing but her own choice, how could you blame anyone else but her?

Why not blame the person who gave her that sour attitude before the cop showed up? Why not blame the mental health society for not effectively treating people with power tripping personality disorders? Why not blame the US government for having laws to enforce, thus creating these confrontational meetings between government officials and citizens?


How about we just lay the blame where it is, with the person who really has the only choice. The person themselves.
I see our resident Cop apologist is on the case....

Lets just blay the blame..and properly so at the cop for being the aggressor!!
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Sure she could. She could've just kept her mouth shut. The cop, on the other hand, might've just said "This isn't worth enflaming the US in another race war. Just issue the damned ticket and leave."

Sarcasm meter is broken again.

(She was seated in a car, she couldn't step back ^_^).
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Sure she could. She could've just kept her mouth shut. The cop, on the other hand, might've just said "This isn't worth enflaming the US in another race war. Just issue the damned ticket and leave."
Never would have happened that way!1 It6 is obvious the cop had another agenda......
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Uh boy.

Seems either party might've diffused this by just taking a step back. The lady was determined to fight and the cop was too.

Speaking for myself, I'd have just taken the ticket and left.
Vidfeo camera in tow.....I would have done what the lady did...

No video camera.....different story.....or same story with different ending!!

Perhaps the cop might have even shot her..............
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I find the whole Sandra Bland case sad and strange, and I am gratified the DoJ is investigating it. I wish she had never been arrested in the first place. She and the officer each could have handled this situation better. She could have simply politely cooperated, and he could have given her more room to express herself without escalating the situation.

The difference is that he was the supposed "professional" in the situation.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,973
794
136
So lets do it your way. In what world does it makes sense to have police where you can ignore them whenever you want for whatever reason you want to give. What is the point of police if they have no authority to do their job. Where ignoring them for any reason is OK.

You are trying to misstate my point. Uncool. Did I say that you can ignore them whenever for whatever? Are there really only 2 options? 1) Obey everything even unlawful orders. 2) Obey nothing even lawful orders.

It makes perfect sense to live in a world where people don't obey unlawful orders.

The world that doesn't make sense is the world in which a power tripping asshole cop gets angry at someone for not obeying an unlawful order and then uses their authority to harm that person. It doesn't make sense that anyone is OK living in this world and it doesn't make sense to me that there are people like xBiffx who like that world. Unless they are cops who want to continue to have the ability to harm people for disobeying unlawful orders. Then it makes sense.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
As to the second paragraph of your post, I don't know what you're talking about. The principal reason black people are disproportionally likely to have encounters with law enforcement is that black people as a whole (particularly young black men) are overwhelmingly likelier than any other group to commit serious, and particularly violent crimes. It is an unfortunate situation whose root causes are complicated, but is also the reality that police have to confront on a daily basis. I don't see that as an "injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement." I don't know precisely what laws you are alluding to as being intended to "keep black people down" - can you identify some?

I find your "black lives don't matter" rhetoric silly and obstructive of real discussion. Black lives absolutely matter, just as much as anyone else's. That doesn't mean black people can do no wrong, and have no culpability in their interactions with police, however.

Aren't black folk arrested and jailed for drugs far more often than white folk even though studies show that white folk use drugs just as much if not more than black folk? I also recall reading that black folk get longer sentences for drug offenses than white folk do.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
...supposedly committed suicide in Texas jail because, you know, she had nothing to live except perhaps her new job at the college which was her alma mater, which had brought her back to Texas.

Because, you know, mentally ill people don't exist and no one ever commits suicide, least of all when fostering a victim complex.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
In general, when people are falsely charged, regardless of who they are, their ability to fight the charges depends largely on the quality of the defense they receive. I have no idea whether black people are disproportionately likely to be intentionally falsely charged, but I would certainly agree that in general black people are less well-equipped to defend themselves if and when this occurs, since in general black people have fewer financial resources than the public as a whole.

If you don't mind could you give an average or a range of how much said quality defense costs?
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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The difference is that he was the supposed "professional" in the situation.

Totally agree.

Aren't black folk arrested and jailed for drugs far more often than white folk even though studies show that white folk use drugs just as much if not more than black folk? I also recall reading that black folk get longer sentences for drug offenses than white folk do.

Yes, black people are arrested and jailed for drugs disproportionally, and unfairly often. That is part of the reason I favor decriminalization of drugs. That does not mean the laws themselves are discriminatory, however. Rather, it is a by-product of the fact that the police have disproportionately frequent interactions with black people relative to white people (which, in turn, in my view, results primarily from the fact that young black men are by far the group most likely to be involved in serious criminality). If I drive with an ounce of pot in the car, it is very unlikely I will ever be cited for it, whereas if I were a young black male, it would be far more likely, because I would be far likelier to be stopped. I do think that is unfair to the young black males of the world, but it doesn't mean that laws prohibiting drugs are inherently discriminatory.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
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If you don't mind could you give an average or a range of how much said quality defense costs?

No, I really can't. I have only practiced criminal defense while in the Air Force, and in handling one pro bono murder case since I became a civilian. I don't know what these things cost. I normally bill at $340 per hour, but I know many criminal lawyers handle cases on a project basis rather than hourly, and I really don't know how their rates compare to civil litigators.

I will say that public defenders tend to be skilled and experienced, so poor people don't necessarily suffer by virtue of not being able to afford counsel. That said, in many places PDs are overworked, and not given adequate resources, so other things being equal private counsel is preferable.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
wow, that guy is extremely unprofessional. Has anyone else watched the full 45 minute clip?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
It would be faster for us as a society to change the police behavior to better align with peoples rights then to try and change a bunch of people who aren't on the government payroll. This cop said she kicked him. He falsely gave her a felony charge because she had attitude and was uppity? Black lives dont matter.

Maybe all black people need to refuse every order by a cop. Can you imagine how fast shit would change if 20% of the population said no to the unjust stops? Can you imagine if the juries in this country began to nullify laws aimed at keeping black people down? On a long enough timeline that will happen. Because more and more people are waking up to the injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement.
So is it traffic laws, or laws against kicking a cop, or just laws in general that are "aimed at keeping black people down"?

They should not have to walk on egg shells.

Doing so, is then acknowledging that interaction with a black person is to be different than a white. And that color matters.

I thought that the civil rights movement was to prove that all are created equal; not some more than most.

What you are asking is the a black person is not to be considered the same as a person of a different color than black. Preferential treatment.

Which is it; you can not have it both ways.
Well . . . In principle I agree completely. In practice . . . Well, I can see the officer recognizing that some black people are completely unreasonable about cops, accepting that there is some historic justification for this unreasonable belief, and therefore being exceptionally polite around black people just in case these particular people happen to be among those completely unreasonable about cops. It's preferential treatment, sure, but it's preferential treatment based on recognition of past injustices that occasionally still occur. That would also be an excellent way to eradicate this belief, whereas treating her just as he would a white person is just going to perpetuate the belief. Since this belief also causes cops a lot of grief, to treat black people especially well would also be serving in his own best interests long term, just as treating the cop with respect would have been in her own best interests. And it's not as though there is some karmic balance the cop has to maintain, so that if he treats black people especially well then he must then abuse Mexicans or whites or Hawaiians. To the contrary, if the cop walked on eggshells around black people I suspect he'd find they were more reasonable around him, and thus his job would be a lot less stressful and a lot more satisfying.

Cops are given deadly force and a LOT of latitude for using it. Absent evidence to the contrary, the cop's version of any altercation will be believed. Given this, I don't think asking cops for an extraordinary amount of patience, tolerance, and forbearance, especially when dealing with a minority which has historically been abused by the system which includes cops, is completely unreasonable. Anyone who goes armed should have an extraordinary amount of patience, tolerance, and forbearance anyway, but especially those with the weight of government backing them up. I would argue that this quality is even more important in police officers than the fortitude to run toward the gunfire.

Uh boy.

Seems either party might've diffused this by just taking a step back. The lady was determined to fight and the cop was too.

Speaking for myself, I'd have just taken the ticket and left.
Amen, brother. Far too many people are hypersensitive about being "disrespected" when on balance, a stranger's respect or lack of it really affects one's life only to the degree one lets it.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
In a situation like this there is supposed to be one professionally trained person there who knows how to calmly handle situations. Anyone remember that dashcam vid of a State Trooper (midwest, I think) being berated by a crazy woman? That man is a professional and he handled the situation correctly. In fact, the more he maintained his calm and polite demeanor, the angrier the crazy woman became. The cop in this matter is no professional, IMO he deliberately escalated a freaking turn signal issue into an arrest. A woman pulls over for a cop because of a minor infraction and three days later she is dead while in custody.

The only people who could excuse this are cops, their defenders and those who think that something like this would never happen to them.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
In a traffic stop, is it legal for an officer to order a driver to put out a cigarette and exit the car?

Ms. Bland has a right to smoke in her car, but Trooper Encinia could argue that the cigarette was interfering with legitimate police business. Since he had already processed the papers, however, “I don’t see a good reason,” said Robert Weisberg, a criminal procedure expert and law professor at Stanford University.


ooops. lawsuits incoming bigtime.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
136
I will say that public defenders tend to be skilled and experienced, so poor people don't necessarily suffer by virtue of not being able to afford counsel. That said, in many places PDs are overworked, and not given adequate resources, so other things being equal private counsel is preferable.

Huh? You make an initial statement which your 2nd statement refutes. What does skill and experience matter when a public defender is overworked? There are but so many hours in a day to build a good defense.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
In a traffic stop, is it legal for an officer to order a driver to put out a cigarette and exit the car?

Ms. Bland has a right to smoke in her car, but Trooper Encinia could argue that the cigarette was interfering with legitimate police business. Since he had already processed the papers, however, “I don’t see a good reason,” said Robert Weisberg, a criminal procedure expert and law professor at Stanford University.


ooops. lawsuits incoming bigtime.

When I've been pulled over in the past I've asked the cop if I could light a cig if the stop was going to take a few minutes and I've never been told no. His request was after the fact and was used as pretense for his eventually arresting her.

This stop was over and he jacked it up because he didn't want it to be over.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
136
Presumably the reason she was charged with kicking the officer is that . . . wait for it . . . she kicked the officer. Unless you have evidence that that she didn't, you don't have any basis for your accusation that Bland was "falsely" charged.

As to the second paragraph of your post, I don't know what you're talking about. The principal reason black people are disproportionally likely to have encounters with law enforcement is that black people as a whole (particularly young black men) are overwhelmingly likelier than any other group to commit serious, and particularly violent crimes. It is an unfortunate situation whose root causes are complicated, but is also the reality that police have to confront on a daily basis. I don't see that as an "injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement." I don't know precisely what laws you are alluding to as being intended to "keep black people down" - can you identify some?

I find your "black lives don't matter" rhetoric silly and obstructive of real discussion. Black lives absolutely matter, just as much as anyone else's. That doesn't mean black people can do no wrong, and have no culpability in their interactions with police, however.

Actually you are wrong. Black people disproportionately have encounters with police officers simply because they are black. I'm not sure how many black people in your socio-econimc circle you have relationships with, but it'll do you some good to talk to them and hear their stories. I say in you your socio-economic group because I assume those people aren't "overwhelmingly likelier than any other group to commit serious, and particularly violent crimes". lol. Geez.
 
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