I absolutely agree that laws should be gender and color blind. But I think one can make a case for cops being especially polite and considerate while enforcing those laws to those who were historically abused by cops.
I absolutely agree that laws should be gender and color blind. But I think one can make a case for cops being especially polite and considerate while enforcing those laws to those who were historically abused by cops.Laws are supposed to be gender and color blind.
If not, blame the people that wrote them and get them changed.
Major problem is that people that are not gender and/or color blind think that they can skirt the law because of such.
I absolutely agree that laws should be gender and color blind. But I think one can make a case for cops being especially polite and considerate while enforcing those laws to those who were historically abused by cops.
Agreed, that's a two-way street. Her attitude caused his attitude to worsen; his attitude caused her attitude to worsen. I don't think we can say one or the other person was at fault; it's a combination of both.The poster that I was responding to attacked the laws themselves; not the people that implement them.
And there is a difference between polite and considerate vs abusive.
But at what point should the line be drawn when being polite/considerate is being abused.
This lady had an attitude that was being expressed to the officer. Doing so may have raised his suspicions. Should he have continued to cut her more slack? For how much longer? She may have been cogitated because she was hiding something - he had no way of knowing what was causing her attitude.
Yes, I do believe that everybody has the capacity to control their reactions to being disrespected. If one does not have the capacity to control one's own reactions, why should one expect the world to make allowances for one's own shortcomings?
Cops cannot detain anyone to continue an investigation
Especially after you just illegally tailgated that person
Yes, I do believe that everybody has the capacity to control their reactions to being disrespected. If one does not have the capacity to control one's own reactions, why should one expect the world to make allowances for one's own shortcomings?
Problem is we're never going to have a perfect world, and throwing a tantrum because the world isn't perfect just makes the world materially worse. Here we have a young woman in the prime of her life who ends up dead leading from a failure to signal a lane change. Absolutely no one benefits from this; it is the poster event for making the world materially worse.
We all need to remember that we are imperfect beings in a world chock full of other imperfect beings. We can't control other people, but we CAN control ourselves. Perhaps Encenia is a perfectly nice young man who had simply had a horrible day and reacted badly. Perhaps he is an asshole to the core. I don't know, but we are all going to meet up with both categories on a daily basis, and how we react, how we control ourselves or fail to do so, determines the world we live in. WE make the world we live in, day by day.
Three more thoughts on your last few sentences. First, there is a middle ground between showing your ass to a cop and living our lives as "subservient bootlickers who have given up absolute authority over our lives to people who would abuse it." Always, always, ALWAYS pick your battles. Life is the entirety of your days, not one chance encounter. If a cop is in the wrong, decide right then whether his being in the wrong is a battle you need to fight, period. A cop being an asshole to me doesn't materially affect my life either way except to make one ten minute period less pleasant. As I am a big boy and no one promised me eternal pleasure, I am fine with that. If I decide it is something I need to fight, then I am going to do so with the odds stacked in my favor. That means ideally with a lawyer - my own professional - but at the least, in the proper venue. I literally could not care less whether that cop respects me, but if he is writing me a ticket I don't think I deserve, then I'll fight it - but not on the side of the road, because that is guaranteed to make his case stronger and mine weaker.
Second, if the cop is showing his ass, then you showing yours is guaranteed to make him show his worse. Every time. (Bullies can be sometimes backed down, but not bullies with badges.) Stop and think if that is an outcome you find desirable. On the other hand, you keeping your cool MAY make him behave more reasonably.
Third, there are many ways we can make this less of a problem. For instance:
1. Adopting the military-style training as I mentioned earlier where volunteers actively try to push the cop's buttons and get him to react poorly. This not only helps cops develop restraint, it can also be helpful in weeding out people who by temperament have no business being cops.
2. Widespread adoption of body cameras. As a representative of government a cop has the presumption of being in the right - he has to, to serve his function - but we all know he won't always be in the right. So trust, but verify. Knowing that their actions are being recorded will help keep cops honest and help keep honest cops out of court.
3. For situations such as Ferguson, get cops back to walking a beat at least part of the time. Nowadays cops too often drive by, only seeing people when there is a crime committed. Cops show up and usually can do nothing about the crime and seldom otherwise interact with the people they are nominally protecting, so the people lose faith in the cops and the cops lose faith in the people. Cops don't know the people, so they start to see them as one faceless mass rather than individuals, and the people don't know the cops so they see them as much as predator as protector.
4. Train cops to recognize that blacks especially have valid reasons to distrust cops, especially in the South, as the cops were the ones who enforced Jim Crow and often the ones who protected those who preyed on blacks both officially and criminally. Cops should understand that some black people will have unreasonable views about cops, have some legitimate reasons to hold those views, and will therefore act unreasonably toward cops. So even though in principle everyone should be treated equally, training cops to treat black people with kid gloves helps cops achieve their purpose, a safe and law-abiding society. Cops treating black people better than other people simply helps blacks understand that cops aren't intentionally treating them worse than other people.
5. Train cops and more importantly their political bosses to recognize that although arresting really bad people for minor offences like pot is a good societal thing, hassling everyone (or everyone in a particular area) for minor offences is a bad societal thing. It simply convinces the locals that the cops are their enemies. The fucking poster child for this is Eric Garner, ultimately being killed while being arrested for being the twenty-first century match girl. Yes, we all know how much you want all your tobacco taxes, but having a population that sees cops as enemies is far too high a price.
/wall o'text
I agree. The balance in a socialist society that gives its guns to a select few so that all don't need to carry weapons should be that when a cop fails to show restraint and disrespects people, and when the escalation leads to a civilian death, the family members of the aggrieved party should have the right to stone the cop to death. This will reduce the disrespect the people feel for authority and help to keep it authority honest.
We all hate ourselves, my friend, and we all carry within us the deepest feelings of disrespect, to others and to ourselves, and the ones who control it best and want it controlled in others are the ones who will be last to understand and to heal.
That woman knew she was fucked when the cop cane up behind her and she instinctively moved to respectfully get out of his way.
please post the ordnance that says a cop cant tailgate before a traffic stop.
Problem is we're never going to have a perfect world, and throwing a tantrum because the world isn't perfect just makes the world materially worse.
So the bond at the jail was $5,000 and the reporter on tv said she would be free if she posted 10% of it = $500. Then why she could not get her relatives (many from the multiple public announcements on tv) and friends to post it for her? Why she had to stay in jail for several days (3 days)?
I have never been in jail before so I am not clear on this, can anyone with experience explain?
I just re-read this part and I'm really conflicted. Yes, standing up against wrong often has negative consequences for the do-gooder. Assholes who are smart tend to rise to positions of power and then they use their power to enact rules to protect themselves from the negative consequences that should (in a perfect world) follow their assholish deeds.
Then they convince useful idiots to argue on their behalf. "Don't stand up to evil because it will get you in trouble." The useful idiots blame the victim and use condescending words to describe the victim, such as "throwing a tantrum".
If the founding fathers had listened to your argument we would be British and have bad teeth. Many colonials paid the ultimate price that made their world materially worse. But they stood up for what is right and they are remembered as heroes, not as tantrum throwers.
Am I saying always fight the cops when they are doing wrong? Nope. But blaming someone who does is the same thing as taking the side of evil and arguing on its behalf.
Well said Pipeline.
If she had done nothing wrong, then she should not have worried.I agree. The balance in a socialist society that gives its guns to a select few so that all don't need to carry weapons should be that when a cop fails to show restraint and disrespects people, and when the escalation leads to a civilian death, the family members of the aggrieved party should have the right to stone the cop to death. This will reduce the disrespect the people feel for authority and help to keep it authority honest.
We all hate ourselves, my friend, and we all carry within us the deepest feelings of disrespect, to others and to ourselves, and the ones who control it best and want it controlled in others are the ones who will be last to understand and to heal.
That woman knew she was fucked when the cop came up behind her and she instinctively moved to respectfully get out of his way.
That is probably the only part you have right
Agreed. The whole "cops drive in a way to make you break the law" stuff is ridiculous. You can either drive a car because you have the skills or you can't because you are a squid.
What is wrong about it? I have a friend who recently became a cop and he told me about some of the tricks he was told to use like slightly veer close to or over a line on the road. People have tendency to follow in line with other, similar moving objects around them which will cause them to go over the line creating a reason for pulling them over. Another one was to vary your speed if the car is following you. Slow down so they turn off their cruise control if its on and then speed up to over the speed limit. Many people just follow the speed of traffic around them allowing the police to use speeding as a reason to pull the car over. I have also experienced the tailgate at night (So I couldn't tell it was a cop). I changed lanes but the car was so close I couldn't see the lights in my mirror. So I changed lanes again and when the car followed me again I sped up to try and get a safe distance between us. Bad move. I was pulled over and questioned because 'I had out of area plates' - from an area 2 miles away from where I was.
I just re-read this part and I'm really conflicted. Yes, standing up against wrong often has negative consequences for the do-gooder. Assholes who are smart tend to rise to positions of power and then they use their power to enact rules to protect themselves from the negative consequences that should (in a perfect world) follow their assholish deeds.
Then they convince useful idiots to argue on their behalf. "Don't stand up to evil because it will get you in trouble." The useful idiots blame the victim and use condescending words to describe the victim, such as "throwing a tantrum".
If the founding fathers had listened to your argument we would be British and have bad teeth. Many colonials paid the ultimate price that made their world materially worse. But they stood up for what is right and they are remembered as heroes, not as tantrum throwers.
Am I saying always fight the cops when they are doing wrong? Nope. But blaming someone who does is the same thing as taking the side of evil and arguing on its behalf.
Again, people being squids isn't the police's fault. If you are a moron and can only play follow the leader then you deserve what you get. Herd mentality isn't an excuse, sheeple.
Standing up to true evil is one thing. Getting all uppity because you are pissed about getting a ticket is quite another. But go on, make this woman into a martyr fighting some righteous cause if you want. Elevate her to sainthood if you'd like.
The cop was an asshole, for sure. His behavior was deplorable. Same goes for the woman. If you're going to ordain someone, maybe find a better example.
There goes that racist thing again!
Got any mammy jokes in your repertoire?
Standing up to true evil is one thing. Getting all uppity because you are pissed about getting a ticket is quite another. But go on, make this woman into a martyr fighting some righteous cause if you want. Elevate her to sainthood if you'd like.
The cop was an asshole, for sure. His behavior was deplorable. Same goes for the woman. If you're going to ordain someone, maybe find a better example.
Are you serious?