Saruman cut from ROTK

[Jzero]

Even with this scene cut, the final running time for ROTK is 3 hours and 20 minutes. Exactly the amount of time that you can have with a DTS soundtrack in the theater before needing intermission. So I think what it boils down to is either cutting the VoS sequence, or trimming down the ending...not really anything in between because they have so much stuff to cover. I would rather have the ENDING of a THREE MOVIE TRILOGY in tact for the theatrical release. I am disappointed but it is good to know the sequence will be seen next year. I am pretty confident this won't affect the overall movie and story after seeing the last two.

This is a lousy excuse. That scene SHOULD have been in TTT. Instead of INVENTING a fake love story between Aragorn and Eowyn and throwing in all this silly footage with Arwen and Elrond, and having the battle at Helmsdeep FAR longer than it needed to be, he could have added a fairly important scene that was IN THE BOOK. I'm ok with him making is own interpretations and taking some liberties, but he dumps a plot point, cites time constraints, but then if you think about it, he could have easily dumped his own fluff, included the real key plot point, and still fit within his time constraint.

I'm expecting to be more disappointed with ROTK than I was with TTT. One review I read was "The battle scenes are bigger, longer, and even better!"

Woopdeedoo.

<-Not brainwashed by battle scene hype.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
ebert has proved himself a thoughtful critic. he watches and knows more about film then most people, he could be considered an expert. thats why i value his opinion. even though i sometimes disagree with him, i still take his review into consideration before i watch a movie. i use rottentomatoes and see the opinions of many others too. the alternative is what? flying blind?

reading/watching a critic isn't going to affect how you enjoy a movie, just helps you choose. more info is better.

you read reviews of games? computer hardware? cars? why bother with their opinions when you could buy every single car model etc and do your thinking for yourself

True but theres a huge difference between a video card and a movie Personally I prefer going into a movie with an open mind.

 

[bozack]

personally I am somewhat upset that not only are they cutting Saruman's lines but also that they didn't include alot of the story in the earlier parts and now also in the latter such as the aforementioned scouring of the shire....while some might find it "needless" the point is that it was a part of the book and I am a fan of things that stay true to the original story....I will go see it, but will be upset knowing that many will forego reading the book and instead only watching the movie and assume that the end of the movie mimicks the book.

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: Jzero
I'm expecting to be more disappointed with ROTK than I was with TTT. One review I read was "The battle scenes are bigger, longer, and even better!"

Woopdeedoo.

<-Not brainwashed by battle scene hype.

While I can't say that I was "disappointed" with TTT, I can see where you are coming from. I found FOTR to be the better film overall... there is a lot more progression and not as much fluff. I just get bored with big battle sequences after a while, and they give the movie much less replay value IMHO.

This is kind of like the matrix... revolutions was by far the worst of the trilogy. The entire friggin movie was one big action sequence. That was very disappointing.

Anyways, despite all of this, I am very excited about ROTK, and I am going to see the midnight Tuesday showing. I just hope they don't ignore the story line in favor of huge battle sequences...

 

[glen]

I really don't remember him having any other scenes in the third book beside the Scourge which was never gonna be in the film to begin with.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: fanerman91

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
It's messed up, because he was a major player in the first two, and there's no final resolution on what happens to him after the Ents tear up Isengard. But I understand their reasons for doing it.

What are the reasons?

From the story I had read earlier, it was basically that Saruman was not in ROTK at all, and that adding him in at the beginning would be out of place and would break the flow of the story.

So you have never read the book? He appears several times in ROTK.

I have never read the book.. I do not read the fantasy genre.

This is not fantasy, more like history.

 

[Aharami]

so how DOES the book end? whats this scouring scene you guys are talkin about?

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: Aharami
so how DOES the book end? whats this scouring scene you guys are talkin about?

RTFB...

You really need to read the books. There is much that is, by necessity, skipped over in the movies.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Aharami
so how DOES the book end? whats this scouring scene you guys are talkin about?

Spoiler:














The Shire is destroyed/burned/ etc... Just as Frodo (or was it Sam) saw in the pool in Lorien.
All plants are gone.
The land is useless and unfertile.
Grima kills Sauramon in the Shire I believe.
Sam uses the dirt from Loren, a gift from Lady Galadrial, to replenish the Shire offerign them a new hope.
This dirt, I believe can be seen in a box in the extended DVD edition of TTT. He almost drops the wooden box holding it.
Again, this is basically what happens, but my memory and the differences between the books and the movies confuse me at times.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Even with this scene cut, the final running time for ROTK is 3 hours and 20 minutes. Exactly the amount of time that you can have with a DTS soundtrack in the theater before needing intermission. So I think what it boils down to is either cutting the VoS sequence, or trimming down the ending...not really anything in between because they have so much stuff to cover. I would rather have the ENDING of a THREE MOVIE TRILOGY in tact for the theatrical release. I am disappointed but it is good to know the sequence will be seen next year. I am pretty confident this won't affect the overall movie and story after seeing the last two.

This is a lousy excuse. That scene SHOULD have been in TTT. Instead of INVENTING a fake love story between Aragorn and Eowyn and throwing in all this silly footage with Arwen and Elrond, and having the battle at Helmsdeep FAR longer than it needed to be, he could have added a fairly important scene that was IN THE BOOK. I'm ok with him making is own interpretations and taking some liberties, but he dumps a plot point, cites time constraints, but then if you think about it, he could have easily dumped his own fluff, included the real key plot point, and still fit within his time constraint.

I'm expecting to be more disappointed with ROTK than I was with TTT. One review I read was "The battle scenes are bigger, longer, and even better!"

Woopdeedoo.

<-Not brainwashed by battle scene hype.

What makes a good book does not make a good movie and vice versa. If someone made a LotR movie that was scene for scene from the books it would probably be 2 or 3 times longer than Jackson's version, drawn out, and boring as hell.


Lethal

 

[bentwookie]

lee boycotting his own movie?..gotta love that.

 

[Jzero]

What makes a good book does not make a good movie and vice versa. If someone made a LotR movie that was scene for scene from the books it would probably be 2 or 3 times longer than Jackson's version, drawn out, and boring as hell.

Well I am of the opinion that throwing in a lot of flashy battle scenes isn't an instant recipe for a good movie.

As I said, I'm OK with him taking liberties and whatnot. He cut all the Tom Bombadil stuff from FOTR. But seeing as it wasn't pivotal to the plot at all, I never bitched about that. He was fluff.

I can understand him cutting things that are superficial. I can understand him adding things to help tell the parts of the story that just wouldn't work on film. But he added crap that wasn't in the book, doesn't further the plot, and isn't even all that interesting and then cut key plot points because he didn't have enough time. Give me a break.

But 1/3 of TTT is about Merry and Pippin convincing the Ents to go attack Saruman. The showdown between Gandalf and Saruman is one of the more important events in the storyline. It's the climactic moment of a big subplot that has been building up since the start of the story.

I fail to see how the Eowyn/Aragorn thing did anything to better the film, nor the scenes with Arwen and Elrond. I also fail to see how shortening the battle at Helmsdeep by 5-10 minutes would have negatively impacted the film at all.

But I think relegating the Saruman/Gandalf storyline to a mere footnote in exchange for 15 extra minutes of a bunch of CGI orcs hacking and slashing a bunch of CGI people in order to fit the time constraint is a poor tradeoff.

 

[bentwookie]

Originally posted by: Jzero

What makes a good book does not make a good movie and vice versa. If someone made a LotR movie that was scene for scene from the books it would probably be 2 or 3 times longer than Jackson's version, drawn out, and boring as hell.

Well I am of the opinion that throwing in a lot of flashy battle scenes isn't an instant recipe for a good movie.

As I said, I'm OK with him taking liberties and whatnot. He cut all the Tom Bombadil stuff from FOTR. But seeing as it wasn't pivotal to the plot at all, I never bitched about that. He was fluff.

I can understand him cutting things that are superficial. I can understand him adding things to help tell the parts of the story that just wouldn't work on film. But he added crap that wasn't in the book, doesn't further the plot, and isn't even all that interesting and then cut key plot points because he didn't have enough time. Give me a break.

But 1/3 of TTT is about Merry and Pippin convincing the Ents to go attack Saruman. The showdown between Gandalf and Saruman is one of the more important events in the storyline. It's the climactic moment of a big subplot that has been building up since the start of the story.

I fail to see how the Eowyn/Aragorn thing did anything to better the film, nor the scenes with Arwen and Elrond. I also fail to see how shortening the battle at Helmsdeep by 5-10 minutes would have negatively impacted the film at all.

But I think relegating the Saruman/Gandalf storyline to a mere footnote in exchange for 15 extra minutes of a bunch of CGI orcs hacking and slashing a bunch of CGI people in order to fit the time constraint is a poor tradeoff.

I concur. TTT sucked... that movie gave me a headache.. too bad because I loved FOTR.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: glen
This dirt, I believe can be seen in a box in the extended DVD edition of TTT. He almost drops the wooden box holding it.

That's what I thought it was too at first, but Sam says it's just salt from home. I like the scouring chapter very very much, it's a great resolution to the hobbit theme of growing up. They go off into the wilderness not knowing their butts from a hole in the ground, and through all their experiences learn how to take care of themselves and their own.

 

[abaez]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
just out of curiosity, are those discs some special discs? or are they top secret dvd's that are under lock and key? if the latter, i'm surprised there aren't a lot of leaks out there

You need timecode and a dts unit to play. They won't work in a cd player no matter how many times the newb projectionists steal them.

 

[Linux23]

Lee is 81? Holy shite.:Q

 

[kami]

This is a lousy excuse. That scene SHOULD have been in TTT. Instead of INVENTING a fake love story between Aragorn and Eowyn and throwing in all this silly footage with Arwen and Elrond, and having the battle at Helmsdeep FAR longer than it needed to be, he could have added a fairly important scene that was IN THE BOOK. I'm ok with him making is own interpretations and taking some liberties, but he dumps a plot point, cites time constraints, but then if you think about it, he could have easily dumped his own fluff, included the real key plot point, and still fit within his time constraint.

I'm expecting to be more disappointed with ROTK than I was with TTT. One review I read was "The battle scenes are bigger, longer, and even better!"

The love story between Aragorn and Eowyn (if you want to call it that) was not invented. Eowyn was infatuated with Aragorn in the books and he basically said "sorry babe, i got an elf waiting for me." Heck, in the EE of Two Towers there is a line she has that is almost word for word in the book. Basically she says she loves him.

That "silly footage" with Arwen/Elrond only took up about 4 minutes of screen time and was a beautiful sequence IMO, there are many lines taken word for word from the Appendix of ROTK. "He will come to death. An image of the splendor of the King's of Men, in glory, undimmed before the breaking of the world." and the shot that accompanies that voiceover is one of the most beautiful shots in the whole movie.

Aragorn needs his own personal cause to fight for. The story is centered around him so much and if you wrote it exactly like the books it would have less impact. Arwen gives him the strength to carry on in TTT. He's doing this for his people and Gondor, but deep down his personal reason is Arwen. This builds character.

You will like ROTK more, it is the best of the 3. And despite the cuts, the closest to the book for the stuff that remains. If you have any sort of remote connection to the books you will be in tears guaranteed. And the battles serve the purpose of the story and, oddly enough, seem shorter than Helm's Deep. Don't ask me why, but they do. The flow of ROTK is much better than TTT...the pace is relentless.

Saruman was supposed to be in TTT, but they felt having a 10 minute sequence AFTER the climax and all the current denouements wouldn't work right. So they had ALWAYS planned to open ROTK with the Voice of Saruman scene...but once PJ edited it in, he couldn't get it to work. It interrupted the new story they were trying to tell. It just didn't work for the THEATRICAL version and after seeing the film, I totally believe him. Sauron is the real threat now and they needed to get this across. The VoS scene WILL be in the extended edition though, very much looking forward to seeing it.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
Honestly, the Scouring of the Shire didn't feel right in the book. I can understand them leaving it out of the movie. After all, it is just a movie. I feel sorry for the people who know LOTR only as the movies and have never read the book.

But isn't there a scene in the previews with Sam and Rosie?? No where else in the book was Sam in a battle.

You'd probably enjoy this guy's take on it then
link Actually, I changed my mind, I doubt anyone can enjoy anything this guy writes! He comes off like he believes he could have wrote a better fantasy epic himself

It does make sense. I agree with him. Maybe The Scouring shouldn't have been in the book.

 

[Jzero]

The love story between Aragorn and Eowyn (if you want to call it that) was not invented. Eowyn was infatuated with Aragorn in the books and he basically said "sorry babe, i got an elf waiting for me." Heck, in the EE of Two Towers there is a line she has that is almost word for word in the book. Basically she says she loves him.

That "silly footage" with Arwen/Elrond only took up about 4 minutes of screen time and was a beautiful sequence IMO, there are many lines taken word for word from the Appendix of ROTK. "He will come to death. An image of the splendor of the King's of Men, in glory, undimmed before the breaking of the world." and the shot that accompanies that voiceover is one of the most beautiful shots in the whole movie.

Aragorn needs his own personal cause to fight for. The story is centered around him so much and if you wrote it exactly like the books it would have less impact. Arwen gives him the strength to carry on in TTT. He's doing this for his people and Gondor, but deep down his personal reason is Arwen. This builds character.

My point was that PJ cut many "inconsequential" pieces of the storyline in order to make it work. For some reason he opted to include all of the above mentioned inconsequential bits, plus an unnecessarily long battle scene, and then use time constraints as his excuse for cutting a far more important part of the story.

You will like ROTK more, it is the best of the 3. And despite the cuts, the closest to the book for the stuff that remains. If you have any sort of remote connection to the books you will be in tears guaranteed. And the battles serve the purpose of the story and, oddly enough, seem shorter than Helm's Deep. Don't ask me why, but they do. The flow of ROTK is much better than TTT...the pace is relentless.

Yep. ROTK was amazing. I'm not sure if I thought it was better than FOTR, but it was pretty freaking awesome. Unfortunately, I still feel that the sudden disappearance of Saruman without a word or a trace is the only untied loose end. I hold that it would have been better to trim the fat of TTT to squeeze in that key plot point. I'm glad it will be in the extended edition, but all the cuts PJ made to the story I either didn't notice or agreed with, except this one.