Saw this on firingsquad...

[DJFuji]

Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

 

[mezrah]

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

Here's my take on it. If you need a $399 clunker, then go get a dell. Anything I would say, $500 or more, I'm gonna built it myself.

 

[KoolDrew]

But I'm starting to think that with Dell's deals and pricing. maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be.

If you need a cheap setup with everything, which would be used for basic tasks, nothing really beats a good deal on a Dell. However, since I am a gamer, I can build a much better system for cheaper then if I were to buy a pre-built.

 

[TraumaRN]

I think something should be said for the fact that I just spent 1500 dollars on a computer that would kick the living sh!t out of anything you could buy for 1500 bucks from dell....for a cheapo rig dell has you beat like a fat kid in dodgeball but once you start scaling towards mid-range/high end systems you start overpaying out your a$$ for a dell...

 

[ND40oz]

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

I'm sorry, but your config did not match or beat the dells. First of all, I hope your chaintech 939 board isn't the nforce4 board, or else you'll never get that AIW 9600 in it. If it's a AGP board, then your atleast a year behind the times. The 3000+ is a great chip, but it's not a dual core even if the dell has the lowest of the dual cores. Your Atrix case with 400w power supply can't come close to the BTX toolless design dell uses, and the included power supply can't hold a candles to dells ps. Other then that, yeah you have a computer that you have little to no support other then rma's for parts, that's crippled with an AGP bus in terms of video card upgrades.

 

[mezrah]

Originally posted by: ND40oz

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

I'm sorry, but your config did not match or beat the dells. First of all, I hope your chaintech 939 board isn't the nforce4 board, or else you'll never get that AIW 9600 in it. If it's a AGP board, then your atleast a year behind the times. The 3000+ is a great chip, but it's not a dual core even if the dell has the lowest of the dual cores. Your Atrix case with 400w power supply can't come close to the BTX toolless design dell uses, and the included power supply can't hold a candles to dells ps. Other then that, yeah you have a computer that you have little to no support other then rma's for parts, that's crippled with an AGP bus in terms of video card upgrades.

First of all, I'm not stupid, I can go back and give you link for link every part I picked. That was an AGP board. And talk about being a year behind in the times, it comes with an x300 and no tv tuner, so having media center 2005 is useless. my system makes better use of the OS and will play games faster. unless you are going to be encoding or the like, who gives a crap about the dual core. and you aren't buying a dell for that anyway. And as for the power usage on computers like this, it doesn't matter...a no name power supply is fine. i have the same cheapo power supply in my case since i built it. BTX isn't even an accepted standard yet, so that argument is crap. By the time it does become a standard, everything else in this case is obsolete anyway.

 

[emilyek]

I've done this for fun before. It's around $1200-1300 (everything included) that you can begin to really stomp premades-- for gaming, anyway. Less than 1K? Dell wins.

 

[klah]

"DellHome - Dimension 9100 with 2.8Ghz P-D 820 Dual Core, 512MB
DDR2 SDRAM, 160GB S-ATA, 16x DVD-Rom, 48x CD-RW, 56k Modem, Win XP
Media Edition 2005 and 17" LCD for $849.15!

It is only that expensive if you do not use the deals.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=1709739

That setup was $700 last week, with a 19" LCD.

 

[mezrah]

Originally posted by: klah

"DellHome - Dimension 9100 with 2.8Ghz P-D 820 Dual Core, 512MB
DDR2 SDRAM, 160GB S-ATA, 16x DVD-Rom, 48x CD-RW, 56k Modem, Win XP
Media Edition 2005 and 17" LCD for $849.15!

It is only that expensive if you do not use the deals.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=1709739

That setup was $700 last week, with a 19" LCD.

For $700 with a 19" lcd that's a great deal.

 

[mindless1]

Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

 

[ND40oz]

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: ND40oz

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

I'm sorry, but your config did not match or beat the dells. First of all, I hope your chaintech 939 board isn't the nforce4 board, or else you'll never get that AIW 9600 in it. If it's a AGP board, then your atleast a year behind the times. The 3000+ is a great chip, but it's not a dual core even if the dell has the lowest of the dual cores. Your Atrix case with 400w power supply can't come close to the BTX toolless design dell uses, and the included power supply can't hold a candles to dells ps. Other then that, yeah you have a computer that you have little to no support other then rma's for parts, that's crippled with an AGP bus in terms of video card upgrades.

First of all, I'm not stupid, I can go back and give you link for link every part I picked. That was an AGP board. And talk about being a year behind in the times, it comes with an x300 and no tv tuner, so having media center 2005 is useless. my system makes better use of the OS and will play games faster. unless you are going to be encoding or the like, who gives a crap about the dual core. and you aren't buying a dell for that anyway. And as for the power usage on computers like this, it doesn't matter...a no name power supply is fine. i have the same cheapo power supply in my case since i built it. BTX isn't even an accepted standard yet, so that argument is crap. By the time it does become a standard, everything else in this case is obsolete anyway.

I'm not going to get into an argument about the BTX standard, all Dells ship with this standard for cooling their intel chips, I "imagine" Dell machines make up a big chunk of the market for desktop systems. I run MCE on a pc without a tv tuner and it's not useless, I just like to hook my computer up to my tv and use it to watch dvd's, game and listen to music. If all you care about is games, then yes, your system is faster, stock to stock. But, if I really care about gaming, in my dell I can upgrade to any PCIe card, with yours, your stuck with AGP.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

No, that was not one of the key arguments, and I don't really care why you thought it was. Apparently some people are just ignorant of anything but price, and if so, that's their choice to make.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm sorry you can't do it, but it is possible if we ignore the other misc bundled software and the OS. I own full retail Windows so I don't have to throw away money over and over. Why? Because I build my own. We can't do a hypothetic build then just ignore ALL of the possible ways or reasons someone didn't buy OEM.

So what's left...

case & power, $50
Sempron $100 (sorry but that P4 doesn't have good perforamnce for any software you have that's not new, except rare things like video editing, so extra software is $$$$)
1GB memory $90
160GB HDD $40
Video card- $10. No point in buying a new low-end card, any old thing would suffice.
Wireless mouse & keyboard, $30
Service and support is useless for any Anandtecher competent at self-building. $0

So tally that up, it's $320. There are a few cables and misc bits too, make it $330. You forgot DVD-RW, (or did you?) make it $370, vs. $550. While you could try to argue a Sempron can't count against a P4, so could it be argued that any number of things in an OEM box can't automatically be assumed equal to a different choice a self-built box would have. Frankly these days which CPU is inside makes the least difference, 20% one way or the other in CPU performance mattered a lot more before we reached the run-GUI-smooth era, or the capture-in-realtime era, or the game-at-50FPS-era.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

You're having a hard time weighing all the facts instead of only an oversimplified quick cost estimate. That's exactly what OEMS want- don't think, just send us your money. For someone that doesn't know how to build a good system, or that doesn't want to think about it, or just doesn't have the time, YES, an OEM box is a good idea.

I'll grant that it is true an OEM can beat a self-built price often. Go to any store, you will also find products costing more or less than one another. Do you just buy the very cheapest one or assess what you're getting? Apparently you don't know the difference. That makes your criteria for choosing different than someone else's.

 

[teddyv]

>proprietary, pared-down mainboards are commonly used

No kidding - I was all set to buy a 9100 until I climbed around Dell.com for a bit and got a good look at the Mobo. Everyone should check it out before buying if you want any expandability. With two opticals there is no room for my pata drives (with all my data) and only room for two sata drives. Add that to no front FireWire ($40 option for it in the back) and an X300 vid card ($200+ for a 6600GT of unknown origin/specs).

Seems like the only real reason to buy Dell is to get a great price on a monitor (Logitech keyboard and optical mouse ($20 Dell upgrade) only costs $16.)

EDIT - And you get to pay a few hundred $$$ to Dell to meet the warranty you get by buying retail components.

 

[jjsbasmt]

For nearly 10 years I have built systems for others. Now only for myself. At one time I could save a person about 30 - 50 percent in cost to build it for them. But now with the compatability issues mosly worked out, included software, and warranty and reliability of the Dells, Gateways, Compaq/HPs and the eMachines, I tell everyone that wants me to build them a system, to just watch the ads from Best Buy, Staples, CompUSA, Circuit City and of course Dell and Gateway and get the best deal they can afford. I only repair, and refurb computers any more.

 

[frustrated2]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

I am considering the same system but can't get the price to $1080 for the 24" LCD. Can you help me out??

 

[Cheesetogo]

Originally posted by: frustrated2

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

I am considering the same system but can't get the price to $1080 for the 24" LCD. Can you help me out??

Maybe he meant 20" lcd. Considering that the system alone goes for around $900 and the 24" monitor goes for $1200, don't see how he could have gotten the whole system for $1080.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

No, that was not one of the key arguments, and I don't really care why you thought it was. Apparently some people are just ignorant of anything but price, and if so, that's their choice to make.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm sorry you can't do it, but it is possible if we ignore the other misc bundled software and the OS. I own full retail Windows so I don't have to throw away money over and over. Why? Because I build my own. We can't do a hypothetic build then just ignore ALL of the possible ways or reasons someone didn't buy OEM.

So what's left...

case & power, $50
Sempron $100 (sorry but that P4 doesn't have good perforamnce for any software you have that's not new, except rare things like video editing, so extra software is $$$$)
1GB memory $90
160GB HDD $40
Video card- $10. No point in buying a new low-end card, any old thing would suffice.
Wireless mouse & keyboard, $30
Service and support is useless for any Anandtecher competent at self-building. $0

So tally that up, it's $320. There are a few cables and misc bits too, make it $330. You forgot DVD-RW, (or did you?) make it $370, vs. $550. While you could try to argue a Sempron can't count against a P4, so could it be argued that any number of things in an OEM box can't automatically be assumed equal to a different choice a self-built box would have. Frankly these days which CPU is inside makes the least difference, 20% one way or the other in CPU performance mattered a lot more before we reached the run-GUI-smooth era, or the capture-in-realtime era, or the game-at-50FPS-era.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

You're having a hard time weighing all the facts instead of only an oversimplified quick cost estimate. That's exactly what OEMS want- don't think, just send us your money. For someone that doesn't know how to build a good system, or that doesn't want to think about it, or just doesn't have the time, YES, an OEM box is a good idea.

I'll grant that it is true an OEM can beat a self-built price often. Go to any store, you will also find products costing more or less than one another. Do you just buy the very cheapest one or assess what you're getting? Apparently you don't know the difference. That makes your criteria for choosing different than someone else's.

I had a real nice rebutal (sp?) to your arguement, but I decided that it wasn't really worth my time. Your argument is absolutley ridiculous and I'll leave it at that.

Edit- I wasn't factoring any of the software that I received as "value" items...heck, as soon as I got it I wiped it out and put my own copy of XP Pro on.

Edit #2- Also, after reading your reply back, it seems that you need to grow up.. You got on the defensive and started attacking me...but for what exactly? If you don't want people to reply to your arguements or reasoning then don't post.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Cheesetogo

Originally posted by: frustrated2

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

I am considering the same system but can't get the price to $1080 for the 24" LCD. Can you help me out??

Maybe he meant 20" lcd. Considering that the system alone goes for around $900 and the 24" monitor goes for $1200, don't see how he could have gotten the whole system for $1080.

No, no, I meant 24".

I got it for $1080 - $160 for shipping to Alaska...so actually $920 for it.

It was an EPP/Coupon deal a couple weeks back.

 

[DJFuji]

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

Here's my take on it. If you need a $399 clunker, then go get a dell. Anything I would say, $500 or more, I'm gonna built it myself.

Heh. Point taken on the included kb/mouse. However, my original point still stands, and that is that "I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper"

Most of you seem to have missed the point. The point was NOT that dell quality is better, or that dell does/doesnt use proprietary parts, or anything else that's been brought up. It was simply that (like nutdotnet pointed out) one reason a lot of us used to build our own systems was because it was cheaper. How many times have you told friends and family "i can build a better machine for cheaper" when they tell you they just bought a Dell/Gateway/Compaq/HP? I know I have plenty of times. Well, my point is that that's no longer the case. Maybe a better PC in terms of quality, but not always cheaper.

 

[frustrated2]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: Cheesetogo

Originally posted by: frustrated2

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Originally posted by: mindless1
Why does it have to be "which is cheaper"?

There are plenty of other more important variables than 10-20% price difference. For example, benefits of self-built could include: picking exactly which parts you want, the look of the case, a full retail OS and apps, not paying for what you DON'T want, room to expand the system, longer warranties on some parts, ability to reuse more parts (like case) next (re)build, not having to wipe out your warranty or support by wiping the HDD of all the OEM misconfigured bloat.

I'm sure there's even more, but since I'm not in the habit of buying Dells...

What is epp?? I have a similar system for $1199 right now it has a couple of upgrades. But if I could get it for $970 plus shipping I would order immediately

It has to be "which is cheaper" because that was one of the key arguements for DIY people. It used to be significantly less expensive to build your own. Now, it's not.

I paid $1080 for:

Dell 9100 Dimension
Pentium D 820
1gig Dual Channel
160gig SATA HD
x300 Video Card
Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
Windows XP MCE
1year @ Home service and support


AND

A 24" LCD

If you break it up, and say give a value of $550 to the LCD and $550 to the desktop they're is no way I can match that by building my own. I know the video card on it sucks, but I just spent $200 on a X800XL. Try to build the above for $750.

I'm not trying to defend Dell here. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have a dell. I've always been a DIY'er and an AMD Fanboy (last Intel I had was a PII 450). Now, it's almost irresonsible to NOT change.

I am considering the same system but can't get the price to $1080 for the 24" LCD. Can you help me out??

Maybe he meant 20" lcd. Considering that the system alone goes for around $900 and the 24" monitor goes for $1200, don't see how he could have gotten the whole system for $1080.

No, no, I meant 24".

I got it for $1080 - $160 for shipping to Alaska...so actually $920 for it.

It was an EPP/Coupon deal a couple weeks back.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: NutdotnetI had a real nice rebutal (sp?) to your arguement, but I decided that it wasn't really worth my time. Your argument is absolutley ridiculous and I'll leave it at that.

Ok, I didn't expect we'd come to an agreement as your choice was already made, as was mine and many others'. Thing is, you basically ignore that there are not only two complete-system options in the entire universe, so we cannot just compare what Dell chargers for "X" and try to beat that.

How about the other way around? It's not US trying to compete with Dell, it's Dell trying to compete with us.
What do they offer to make us want their box instead of being able to choose EXACTLY what we want instead? A few dollars off a multi-hundred dollar system? Life is too short to always make compromises. I already have a generic-looking toaster oven too, no need for a Dell Pimped P4 box.

Edit #2- Also, after reading your reply back, it seems that you need to grow up..

You're ignorant of the difference. I'm not going to sugar-coat it. Tough if you don't like that. Grow up yourself. If I see a black cat I"ll call it black and if I see someone who is blinded to the differences between an OEM box and one hand-picked, I'll call that as I see it too. Would you rather I suggested you do know the difference but are deliberately trying to deceive us, as a Dell shill? Probably not.

You got on the defensive and started attacking me...but for what exactly?

I don't know you. I can only attack the ignorant ideas you present. You compare two things that are necessarily different then try to claim it's important that they're not the same price. Ridiculous. A system is not just "what CPU is inside", "what video card is inside". Any random buyer is quite likely to not need the exact config Dell offers- maybe more, maybe less, or just different. We don't actually need to get into those details though, it is enough to recognize Dell's systems as only being the best option if that is exactly what you want for the $.

Nothing personal, It's not like I called you stupid in general... you may be a brilliant rocket scientist but that doesn't make an argument about ignoring everything but price any more valid, nor is it valid to suggest it's reasonable to add value to a Dell box for anything a buyer may not want, unless Dell allows subtractions for a further discount.

If you don't want people to reply to your arguments or reasoning then don't post.

I suppose this will go on until one of us gets tired of back-and-forth arguments? OK, I'm as apathetic as you claimed to be when you started the post so I'll not post again, unless it's warranted.

 

[DJFuji]

i should have known this would turn into a flame war.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: DJFuji

Originally posted by: mezrah

Originally posted by: DJFuji
Thecrecarc, maybe you should read a little more carefully, Mr 1337 h4x0r

Originally posted by: DJFuji

...maybe custom building is not as economical as it used to be. I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper.

In case you hadn't noticed, a $25 difference does not count as "much cheaper" especially when you consider that after tax and shipping, that home built PC (which doesn't include keyboard, mouse, cables, etc) will be more expensive.

I'm not advocating we all go out and buy Dells. I sure as hell never will. But i'm just saying it's no longer cheaper to custom build over buying prebuilt.

Actually DJFuji, Maybe you should read a little more carefully. You DO get the keyboard, mouse, cables, etc. The point was to match/beat the dell system for the price, which I did. Even at the same price point, who would rather take the dell than a DIY system? Unless you are a noob who doesn't know jack, you'd rather build your own system for both a feeling of accomplishment and upgradeability.

It doesn't have to be cheaper. It's still comparable, and that's what matters. Now if this was a contest to beat a $399 dell or what have you I wouldn't even bother.

Here's my take on it. If you need a $399 clunker, then go get a dell. Anything I would say, $500 or more, I'm gonna built it myself.

Heh. Point taken on the included kb/mouse. However, my original point still stands, and that is that "I don't think any of us could build a PC like that dell for much cheaper"

Most of you seem to have missed the point. The point was NOT that dell quality is better, or that dell does/doesnt use proprietary parts, or anything else that's been brought up. It was simply that (like nutdotnet pointed out) one reason a lot of us used to build our own systems was because it was cheaper. How many times have you told friends and family "i can build a better machine for cheaper" when they tell you they just bought a Dell/Gateway/Compaq/HP? I know I have plenty of times. Well, my point is that that's no longer the case. Maybe a better PC in terms of quality, but not always cheaper.

Amen on that. I used to build all my buddies computers because I COULD build them better AND cheaper.

The last system I built was about a month ago. After video card it was about $1100, with no monitor. I felt like a bit of an ass after I ended up buying a Dell for myself....the $1100 computer that I built was certainly a better machine...but not $5-600 better...not by any means.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: DJFuji
i should have known this would turn into a flame war.

Yes, sadly it has...

mindless1- I think you misunderstood me initially. I didn't think you were necessarily WRONG, but I tried to show you another side...