SCSI 15k U320 Cards?

[Fern]

This is a followup to my other post in video about long load times. In addition to adding ram, I'm interested in one of these bad boys (15k U320 drives)

The rig is below, and I'm not interested in RAID. I'm thinking if add one 15k U320 drive I'll see some real improvement (w/o RAID) If I'm wrong here pls let me know.

Secondly, can anybody recommend me a card? The ones I've seen are quite expensive, and many seem to incorporate RAID. If the RAID feature doesn't really add to the cost, well then I'd like to have it for future expansion option. But otherwise something less expensive than $150-200 would be GOOD.

Thanks,

Your local scsi nOOb


Fern

 

[Vegito]

do you have pci-x or just pci ? it seems most u320 are pci-x

if you're doing video, i'm assuming an 18 or 36 gb u320 drive wont be big enough ?

so you're looking at like 73gb or 146gb 15k drives.. they're well into the hundreds.. around 500 for the 73gb and about 1k for the 146gb..

if you're investing that much.. most lsi u320 cards are around 175..

hypermicro should carry some or newegg ?

 

[ribbon13]

A lot of PCI-X cards will run on a PCI but slower. Makes a big hit in RAID0. PCI would choke SCSI even more.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101579
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=132502

 

[Pariah]

SCSI is not a good option for home video editing. Video editing requires large amounts of storage that can stream it smoothly. ATA will give a MUCH better return for your dollar for this. This is one of the only areas where RAID'ing can actually provide a benefit to a home user. RAID'ing multiple smaller ATA drives will be cheaper and give you better performance than going single SCSI as well as significantly greater storage capacity.

 

[Fern]

Thanks guys,

But its for the rig in my sig (NF7-S).

The purpose is improved gaming (load times etc.)

No RAID

The drive I'm looking to purchase is a small 15k U320 drive for about $100 (its used).

Some research seems to indicate the PCI bus on my mobo can't handle U320 speeds anyway? I've seen U160 and U2W cards mentioned, but how much improvement over the EIDE 7200rpm current drive can be obtained?

Thnaks,

Fern

 

[Pariah]

If it's not a current generation 15k, you're throwing money away. An older 18GB 15k SCSI drive is about the last option anyone should pick for video editing.

 

[imported_Mitchell]

I cannot see wasting money on SCSI anymore unless it is specifically for RAID.

The performance we used to get does not justify the cost.

 

[ribbon13]

PCI's shared bus capacity is 127MB/s

 

[Zepper]

The $40. LSI U-160 SCSI adapter will handle one 15k U-320 drive with no problem - even in a 32-bit PCI slot. Boot time will be a bit slower because of the host adapter's start-up routine, but after that loads should be noticeably quicker. But unless you want SCSI for more than just its raw speed, a Raptor (is there any SATA competitor for the Raptor yet?) would be a more cost-effective solution.
. Reliability is my main reason for sticking with SCSI. My drives (10k U-160) and HBA (U-80) are pretty long in the tooth but I just don't have any drive problems - period! As he quickly knocks on wood...
.bh.

 

[Fern]

Thanks,

Hey Zepper and Ribbon,

HERE'S an article I'm going by.

The U160 card? How many MB/sec will get ?

Looks to me like a regular IDE drive is 50MB/sec

A U2W card will go 80MB/sec (a little better than 50% improvement)

A U320 card will do 160MB/sec. But I'll be limited by the PCI bus to 127MB/sec (better than a 100% improvement).

Is this correct???

Thanks Fern

 

[GoSharks]

u160 is 160mb/s. u320 is 320mb/s.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS
u160 is 160mb/s. u320 is 320mb/s.

That makes PERFECT sense, but

The link above seems to indicate the U3 (drive/card) series does 160MB/sec. I don't find the U160 card listed. The U2W card seems to do 80MB/sec.

So, appears I'm mis-reading the chart linked above, or comparing apples to oranges???

But if the U160 (PCI) card let the drive do 160MB/sec, I should get that (1) cuz it's cheaper, and (2) the pci bus is gonna limit me to 127MB/sec anyway. CORRECT?

Thanks for your patience everyone

 

[ribbon13]

Exactly. Even if you get a motherboard with PCI-X later, a single SCSI will never touch 160MB/s

 

[MrControversial]

Ribbon is on a SCSI thread like a fly to crap. LOL!

 

[Zepper]

Yes, no current SCSI drive peaks at over 100MB/sec (the Maxtor Atlas 15kII makes about 94MB/sec with about 86MB/sec average, and it's the fastest so far) so it will easily fit within the PCI and the U-160 transfer rate limits. You might also want to consider the Maxtor Atlas 10k V. Lose a little perf, save lots of $$s and some noise.

.bh.

 

[ribbon13]

Maxtor 15K II Data
Maxtor 10K V Data

$546.00 Maxtor 10K V 147GB
$1236.12 Maxtor 15K II 147GB
$1299.50 Maxtor 10K V 300GB

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Yes, no current SCSI drive peaks at over 100MB/sec (the Maxtor Atlas 15kII makes about 94MB/sec with about 86MB/sec average, and it's the fastest so far) so it will easily fit within the PCI and the U-160 transfer rate limits. You might also want to consider the Maxtor Atlas 10k V. Lose a little perf, save lots of $$s

.bh.

OK,

HERE'S the link on the drive. The company says 320MB/sec. I'm guessing that's I/O (both directions or 2 x 160MB?), so its really 160 MB/sec (what the U160 card does, which seems the latest, and maybe most expensive?)

Zepper, given your remarks, can I assume the company data (320/160) is marketing BS that quotes "theoretical" speeds which cannot actually be obtained?

No need to link or recommend other scsi drives as I am negitiating with a sellor for his (barely) used scsi drive.

ONE NEW PROB for me. In reading I see that the drive is 80pin. Seems all cards 68pin. What gives???

 

[Gamingphreek]

While SCSI would give a noticable performance increase you are running a system where the HDD shouldn't be your primary concern. There are PCI-X based cards that are backwards compatible to PCI.

Before you go to SCSI you will see much greater performance if you:
Upgrade M/B and CPU to A64
Sell current memory and get 1gig (2x512)
As well as upgrade your Video Card.

Then after all that if you want a decent improvement in most things, THEN get a nice SCSI setup. Remember the SCSI drive isn't the only thing that runs off of the PCI bus. Since that is Nforce 2 based motherboard your onboard NIC, and onboard Sound both use the PCI bus to communicate with the CPU and the APU (Respectively). Doesn't leave much room for them, on top of that Optical drives.

If you are really serious about going SCSI you need to upgrade your system. PCI-X is preferable but not required. Dont get me wrong though, if you move for SCSI right now you will see a noticable difference, however not as big as it could/should be.

-Kevin

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Fern
HERE'S the link on the drive. The company says 320MB/sec. I'm guessing that's I/O (both directions or 2 x 160MB?), so its really 160 MB/sec (what the U160 card does, which seems the latest, and maybe most expensive?)

Ok.. for one, that drive is last generation...

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://4[/b] Specs]http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/enterprise/tech/0,1084,657,
0.html">Cheetah 15k.[B</a>

$560.29 Seagate Cheetah 15K.4 ST373454LW

 

[Fern]

Hey Kevin,

thanks

Will the LSIU160 card work in ny NF7-S? See card HERE.

If this card works with both PCI-e and PCI that would be great (IIRC, they're for PCI-x)

Don't use the NIC in my rig, just the onboard sound. Know how much bandwidth the onboard sounds takes up?

 

[ribbon13]

^^
I can't edit that post for some reason.

$553.79 Seagate 15K.4 ST373454LC
That is actually 80-pin

$560.29 Seagate Cheetah 15K.4 ST373454LW
That is actually 68-pin

80-Pin Datasheet

68-Pin Datasheet

 

[mechBgon]

The LSI Logic U160 card works fine in 32-bit PCI slots such as your NF7-S has. You can get a better buy on it at Hypermicro.com last I checked. Get a LVD SCSI cable and terminator while you're at it.

 

[Fern]

Hi Ribbon.

If I do get one, its the one I linked cuz I can buy it for >$100.

So, given that I buy the 15k.3 Cheeta drive (which looks to 80 pin) I will also need:

1) LSI U160 Card (appears to be backward compatible and will work on my NF7-S), and

2) a 68 -> 80 pin adapter (SCA 80 to HD68/DB50 adapters) as seen HERE for $30, and

3) a 68 pin cable (Internal LVD/U160 HD68 internal cable w/terminator) for $33. See in link above where adapter is.


Other than d/ling any neccessary software, have I overlooked anything?

Thanks,

 

[ribbon13]

Why not just get the 68-pin drive?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Why not just get the 68-pin drive?

Cuz the guys who's selling me the 15k.3 20 gig Cheeta only has an 80pin drive

But yeah, I'd rather do w/o an adapter. But for less than $100, the drive seem very reasonably price, right? (so, basically, it'll be about $130 for the drive when I throw the adapter in)

Fern