Makes sense. A wall does not. Spend the money and put it towards refining our immigration process. I know it sounds simple here but makes you wonder WTF politicians and lobbyists are doing that we can't do that now in some form.
Makes sense. A wall does not. Spend the money and put it towards refining our immigration process. I know it sounds simple here but makes you wonder WTF politicians and lobbyists are doing that we can't do that now in some form.
Republicans are catering to the old white crowd. People who dont want them mexicans taking their jobs or changing murrica. Democrats I dont quite understand why they havent tackled the issue. My cynical view of all politicians says Dems leave it on the table to bash Republicans over. In the meantime people who want to live here get caught in the middle of an issue that should be fixable.
What exactly are you asking him to support? Please tell me you aren't asking him to prove a negative.Please post links/references supporting that any of what you have just said is true.
What exactly are you asking him to support? Please tell me you aren't asking him to prove a negative.
You are not OK with a wall, but you are ok with a fence.
Do I have this right?
Any single thing he said. Any of it.
The whole "republicans want cheap labor" is a dramacrat straw man.
Any single thing he said. Any of it.
The whole "republicans want cheap labor" is a dramacrat straw man.
Please post links/references supporting that any of what you have just said is true.
Huge difference between legal and illegal immigration and I think you are entirely intelligent enough to know the difference. Make smarter arguments because the one you're making just diminishes you.You understand this country was built on immigration right? It isnt like anybody on this board unless they have native american blood in the family history didnt descend from an immigrant from somewhere.
It just baffles the mind to listen to people act like immigration is an issue that requires a wall be built to stop it. It doesnt make any logical sense given our history. And especially when we start looking at the native population growth rates. Immigration is the only way to keep this system churning forward.
Maybe lumping all republicans in without any democrats is wrong. Business wants the cheap labor where applicable and lobbies all politicians for it.
One way to lower the flooding of iilegals into the country is to stop giving them jobs. IF there are no jobs, less will come. It won't stop completely because we give so many damn handouts.
Nope. Not sure if you misinterpreted something I said but I never mentioned supporting a wall or a fence.
So the GOP doesn't bust unions and doesn't fight minimum wage hikes? It's not exactly a secret that the GOP fights for management over labor...
We fight the government controlling businesses.
That's as transparent as saying "we fight the government controlling states' rights to discriminate." If government didn't control business you'd be working side by side with your 10yo 70 hours a week for bread and cabbage.
Huge difference between legal and illegal immigration and I think you are entirely intelligent enough to know the difference. Make smarter arguments because the one you're making just diminishes you.
Your very last sentence shows me you have the smarts to not say everything that came before it. I'd be totally in shock to hear any politician have a serious conversation with the people of this nation explaining to them the road to disaster we're on. But I know that the American people are entirely capable of understanding the situation which a low birth rate has put us in and I think they're owed an explanation.
But the answer is not to reward law-breakers. I hope you're smart enough to realize that. I'm not so sure. Show me.
Learn what a straw man is FFS. Making an analogy isn't a straw man. Please try again.
its hyperbole, fear mongering, lying and a straw man.
You covered the whole dramacrat spectrum in one post!
its hyperbole, fear mongering, lying and a straw man.
You covered the whole dramacrat spectrum in one post!
You wasted an opportunity on talking points but I'll bite.There isn't as huge a difference as you make it out to be. With a fixed immigration law those you are complaining about wouldn't be illegal. You want to punish people breaking a law everybody agrees is broken. What a waste of time and resources. Move on and fix the situation instead of fighting your battle over something so petty and unenforceable.
Make it hard or impossible for illegals to find jobs and the problem for the most part disappears.
The problem is forcing our politicians (and the very rich who have corrupted them into keeping the flow going) to enact laws that levy heavy fines and prison time for those that knowingly hire illegals.
It sure sounds a whole lot cheaper to do that instead of beefing up thousands of miles of border just on the face of it.
Yes, I really think that.And impossible. Do you think that you can stop people so desperate that they send their 10 year old sons and daughters several thousand miles on their own in the hope that they *might* end up with a better life? You really think that?
You don't see even a tiny difference between a wall built to keep people out and a wall built to keep people in?I think we have seen a wall like this before. Oh where was that again? Berlin I believe? They have since taken that wall down for good reason.
Sorry, this is complete bullshit. Americans (and legally resident aliens) were doing those jobs before we had tens of millions of illegals to take them. Meatpackers' wages (adjusted for inflation) for example dropped 45% from 1980 to 2007, and when the Swift meat-packing plants were raided, ultimately deporting 1,300 illegals (about a fifth of whom were also charged with identity theft crimes), literally thousands of citizens and legally resident aliens lined up to apply for those jobs. Production resumed the next day, and within months was fully back to pre-raid levels.We aren't securing the border because it is effectively impossible to do so and nobody cares anyway because illegal immigrants aren't taking our jobs they are doing the jobs that Americans don't want to do anyway.
Among the reports findings:
As is the case in the entire industry, work at the six Swift plants is characterized by difficult and dangerous conditions.
Like the rest of the industry, workers at these facilities have seen a steady decline in their standard of living. Government data show that the average wages of meatpackers in 2007 were 45 percent lower than in 1980, adjusted for inflation.
We estimate that 23 percent of Swifts production workers were illegal immigrants.
All facilities resumed production on the same day as the raids. All returned to full production within five months. This is an indication that the plants could operate at full capacity without the presence of illegal workers.
There is good evidence that after the raids the number of native-born workers increased significantly. But Swift would not provide information on how its workforce has changed. Swift also has recruited a large number of refugees who are legal immigrants.
At the four facilities for which we were able to obtain information, wages and bonuses rose on average 8 percent with the departure of illegal immigrants.
There is a widespread perception among union officials, workers, and others in these communities that if pay and working conditions were improved, it would be dramatically easier to recruit legal workers (immigrant and native).
Worker pay has a small impact on consumer prices. Research by the USDA and others indicates that wages and benefits for production workers account for only 7 to 9 percent of retail meat prices. This means that if wages and benefits were increased by one-third, consumer prices would rise by 3 percent at most.
Research by the United Food and Commercial Workers union indicates that pay to production workers accounts for only about 4 percent of consumer costs. If that is correct, a 50 percent increase in wages would cause only a 2 percent increase in consumer prices.
Turnover is high at all Swift plants, ranging from 40 to 70 percent per year. Swift accepts high turnover as a cost of pursuing a business model that emphasizes high-volume production. It spends heavily to replace workers rather than seeking to retain workers by slowing production.
High turnover imposes severe stress on local communities and social service agencies. It makes transience and upheaval a constant problem for the communities. Many residents resent the price their community pays to have the Swift plant as a large part of their local economy.
Swift has tried to reduce the employment of illegal immigrants with more rigorous checks of documents presented by new workers. Several months before the raids, the company contracted with the Tucson-based Border Management Strategies for advice on hiring practices.
In addition to pay increases, Swift introduced a number of methods to attract workers after the raids. The company paid bonuses to new employees, and to current employees who recruited others. It also advertised heavily, paid relocation expenses, and provided daily transportation from distant population centers.
Reaction to the raids varied widely within these communities. Many members of the communities were enthusiastically supportive of the enforcement action, while other were sharply critical.
The Swift plants in Marshalltown, Iowa, and Hyrum, Utah, illustrate the immigration connections that were established during the 1942-1964 era of the braceros and extended through the 1986 amnesty. Many relatives and neighbors of former braceros now work at Swift plants.
You wasted an opportunity on talking points but I'll bite.
What is broken in current immigration law? Be specific.