Senator Arlen Specter (R-PA)

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,364
53,996
136
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Oh really? Wasn't that RINO from the old school - meaning elected back in the early 80s?

The 1994 sweep by the Rs was not a "moderate" or "centrist" move, it was a solid R election. A few "moderates"(grahmnesty being one) and a few a good bit right of average for the R party at the time but overall it was a solid R sweep that included Governorships, state elections, and even mayoral wins.

So again, you libs are out of touch if you really think that the R party can only win if it moves leftward. There is no reason to move further left, it's been a losing proposition since the '94 sweep. Time to regain a solid backbone like '94 not become slimey "middle" "moderates".

I said moderates LIKE Arlen Specter, not Arlen Specter. I know his history well, as he was one of the two senators from PA for all 19 years that I lived there.

I also said nothing about the scale of the Republican victory, only that the victory was aided by moderate Republicans such as Specter that are largely gone from the party today. They were useful in the Republican victory in the same way that the more conservative than average 'Blue Dog' Democrats were useful in the Democratic sweep of 2006. They were people who could win in districts where generic Democrats and Republicans couldn't.

You are more than welcome to continue going even further to the right. I don't want Republicans to win, and so I heartily endorse your ideas. By all means try and make me eat my words.


 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
?The party has become more of a private club centered in the South and rural areas,? said former Representative Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican. ?It?s not a hospitable place at this point.? Other moderate lawmakers ?look at this and wonder, ?What are we doing here???
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
And Specter's first vote while being a Democrat... against the Democrats.



Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: senseamp
In US we vote for a man, not a party.

Why, then, is party affiliation listed?

Because the party in power makes the laws and the party in power always likes keeping the party affiliation on the ballot.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Oh really? Wasn't that RINO from the old school - meaning elected back in the early 80s?

The 1994 sweep by the Rs was not a "moderate" or "centrist" move, it was a solid R election. A few "moderates"(grahmnesty being one) and a few a good bit right of average for the R party at the time but overall it was a solid R sweep that included Governorships, state elections, and even mayoral wins.

So again, you libs are out of touch if you really think that the R party can only win if it moves leftward. There is no reason to move further left, it's been a losing proposition since the '94 sweep. Time to regain a solid backbone like '94 not become slimey "middle" "moderates".

I said moderates LIKE Arlen Specter, not Arlen Specter. I know his history well, as he was one of the two senators from PA for all 19 years that I lived there.

I also said nothing about the scale of the Republican victory, only that the victory was aided by moderate Republicans such as Specter that are largely gone from the party today. They were useful in the Republican victory in the same way that the more conservative than average 'Blue Dog' Democrats were useful in the Democratic sweep of 2006. They were people who could win in districts where generic Democrats and Republicans couldn't.

You are more than welcome to continue going even further to the right. I don't want Republicans to win, and so I heartily endorse your ideas. By all means try and make me eat my words.

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you monitor free republic, they seem to be happy and want Snowe to go next
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2240115/posts
This would be mildly interesting if it was just a fringe element, but this is the base.
Republicans are in a downward spiral. They have used wedge issues and other red meat to radicalize their base, which then put pressure on moderates. The more moderates they lose, the more rightwing the remainder of the party is, which results in losing even more moderates.
Their prospects are pretty grim going forward unless someone hijacks the party from the base and takes it to the center where elections are won.

:roll: Because 1994 was "won" from "the center"...

You leftists are hilarious - when W was in office, history started with him, now it seem that history starts from 2006 with you morons.

You can call me names all day, I am just enjoying your self delusion. If this is at all reflective of Republican thinking, they will be a minority party for a very long time.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you monitor free republic, they seem to be happy and want Snowe to go next
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2240115/posts
This would be mildly interesting if it was just a fringe element, but this is the base.
Republicans are in a downward spiral. They have used wedge issues and other red meat to radicalize their base, which then put pressure on moderates. The more moderates they lose, the more rightwing the remainder of the party is, which results in losing even more moderates.
Their prospects are pretty grim going forward unless someone hijacks the party from the base and takes it to the center where elections are won.

:roll: Because 1994 was "won" from "the center"...

You leftists are hilarious - when W was in office, history started with him, now it seem that history starts from 2006 with you morons.

You can call me names all day, I am just enjoying your self delusion. If this is at all reflective of Republican thinking, they will be a minority party for a very long time.

You are a leftist and you ARE a moron if you think '94 was won from the "center". Reality and factual history don't back up your BS. Sorry if you can't handle that but it sure does provide some entertainment for myself and others who know better. You libs really need wake up and realize that repeating "minority party for a very long time" over and over doesn't mean anything and really just shows how drunk with "power" you've become already.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,364
53,996
136
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you monitor free republic, they seem to be happy and want Snowe to go next
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2240115/posts
This would be mildly interesting if it was just a fringe element, but this is the base.
Republicans are in a downward spiral. They have used wedge issues and other red meat to radicalize their base, which then put pressure on moderates. The more moderates they lose, the more rightwing the remainder of the party is, which results in losing even more moderates.
Their prospects are pretty grim going forward unless someone hijacks the party from the base and takes it to the center where elections are won.

:roll: Because 1994 was "won" from "the center"...

You leftists are hilarious - when W was in office, history started with him, now it seem that history starts from 2006 with you morons.

You can call me names all day, I am just enjoying your self delusion. If this is at all reflective of Republican thinking, they will be a minority party for a very long time.

You are a leftist and you ARE a moron if you think '94 was won from the "center". Reality and factual history don't back up your BS.
Where did I say any of this, dummy? Great rebuttal of some sh!t I didn't say, Einstein.
Sorry if you can't handle that but it sure does provide some entertainment for myself and others who know better. You libs really need wake up and realize that repeating "minority party for a very long time" over and over doesn't mean anything and really just shows how drunk with "power" you've become already.
It shows you are drunk with ideology. This is not 1994. In 1994, Republicans were promising stuff, contract with America, all that jazz. By now, we've seen them default on most of that contracts, and the few parts they may have lived up to weren't all that great either. So they are damaged goods in 2009. I am not going to go into demographic, economical and political changes since then. You are not just free to remain in denial, but from my point of view you are more than welcome to.


 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,364
53,996
136
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*

True, Bush was a pretty moderate guy back in 1994. I forgot that's when he showed up.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*

True, Bush was a pretty moderate guy back in 1994. I forgot that's when he showed up.

Not Bush.
Let's see if someone else can figure out who I'm talking about.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*

*hint*9/11, 9/11, 9/11*hint*
 

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
76
Politics! Politics! When will they ever learn voters are not as dumb as they appear? So what does this "Benedict Arlen" thinks he wouldn't do to DEMs the same thing he did to GOP's?
 

ZeGermans

Banned
Dec 14, 2004
907
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you monitor free republic, they seem to be happy and want Snowe to go next
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2240115/posts
This would be mildly interesting if it was just a fringe element, but this is the base.
Republicans are in a downward spiral. They have used wedge issues and other red meat to radicalize their base, which then put pressure on moderates. The more moderates they lose, the more rightwing the remainder of the party is, which results in losing even more moderates.
Their prospects are pretty grim going forward unless someone hijacks the party from the base and takes it to the center where elections are won.

:roll: Because 1994 was "won" from "the center"...

You leftists are hilarious - when W was in office, history started with him, now it seem that history starts from 2006 with you morons.

You can call me names all day, I am just enjoying your self delusion. If this is at all reflective of Republican thinking, they will be a minority party for a very long time.

You are a leftist and you ARE a moron if you think '94 was won from the "center". Reality and factual history don't back up your BS. Sorry if you can't handle that but it sure does provide some entertainment for myself and others who know better. You libs really need wake up and realize that repeating "minority party for a very long time" over and over doesn't mean anything and really just shows how drunk with "power" you've become already.

Hey you're a miserable fascist piece of shit all your political heroes alive and dead are war criminals. How does this make you feel?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

Fred Thompson a moderate!?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*

*hint*9/11, 9/11, 9/11*hint*

Giuliani of course.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

So who are these "moderates" you think are like specter that were elected in 1994? I named one so you got 1 free.

Robert Ehrlich for one.
George Pataki for another.

EDIT: oh duh, Fred Thompson too.

You are missing one very important person...
*hint*Terrar, terrar, terrar.*hint*

*hint*9/11, 9/11, 9/11*hint*

Giuliani of course.

*Ding**Ding**Ding**Ding**Ding**Ding*
We have a Winner!!!
 

runestone

Senior member
Nov 25, 2004
383
0
0
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Politics! Politics! When will they ever learn voters are not as dumb as they appear? So what does this "Benedict Arlen" thinks he wouldn't do to DEMs the same thing he did to GOP's?

"Benedict Arlen"
Oh, now here's a true "ding ding" winner.


 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,480
8,006
136
Just ignore what Specter did. He's not a "real" republican in any way, shape or form.

The "real" repubs know this, and hopefully the "real" repubs will keep all the "fake" repubs from taking over "their" party and remain the beacon of those policies that made Bush 43 the greatest president our Nation has ever had, bar none.

Now that ^^^ is a tough sell, but what the hell, people are still buying it after having six years of "heaven on earth" and two years of razor-thin "balanced" governance.

Yep, those were the best eight years this Nation of ours has ever experienced, and more of the same will make it even "better".

Just keep on skipping and hopping down that yellow brick road, you "real" repubs.

It took eight years to bake a pie that only a few would eat, albiet with clothes pins on their noses, eyes tightly shut and mouths stuffed full of Rove-grown cotton. But that doesn't hold any water compared to the long term agenda-driven speculating and prognosticating of Obama's 100 day's performance that is being totally influenced and hampered by the wrecked Nation that his predesessor left parked on his front lawn.

Reality took a back seat to proven-failed ideology, and after '08 reality got shoved into the trunk along with Bush 43's legacy. But not Bush's ideology. Oh no, it's now busy trying to back-seat drive the wreck it made that got adversely reposessed by the people that originally financed it.

"Real" smart.



 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I thought Christine Todd Whitman wrote a pretty good op-ed about the whole thing in toady's Times...

The United States needs two vibrant, competitive parties. With the economic crisis, the war in Iraq and countless other issues facing the nation, the stakes are too high to simply let one ideological segment of the country determine our fate. If we are to prevent this kind of one-party dominance, Republicans need to reassess where we are and what we stand for ? and we need to do it now....

Arlen Specter made his decision to leave the party after years of being attacked by fellow Republicans. I can understand how he felt, but I believe that now, more than ever, it is important for us moderates to stay and work from within. One thing we can be sure of is that we will have no impact on the party?s direction if we leave.

Moderate Republicans should use Senator Specter?s switch as the impetus to force a re-evaluation of where our party is going ? a review that can happen only from the inside. Besides, third parties in the United States don?t have a particularly successful history. ...

This isn?t just about winning elections. To the extent we lose more members of the Republican Party, we lose what ability we have left to affect policy, and that is going to be devastating to our nation. Our democracy desperately needs two vibrant parties. And for Republicans to be that second party, we need to remind the nation of the principles for which we once stood.

We cannot simply be the party of no; we need to provide a compelling counterpoint to the Obama administration?s tax-spend-and-borrow policies. The Republican Party has a proud heritage and much to add to the current debates, but only if we can return to the principles that made us the party of Abraham Lincoln, Dwight Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04...=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: runestone
Originally posted by: Jiggz
Politics! Politics! When will they ever learn voters are not as dumb as they appear? So what does this "Benedict Arlen" thinks he wouldn't do to DEMs the same thing he did to GOP's?

"Benedict Arlen"
Oh, now here's a true "ding ding" winner.
Is that what King Rush is calling him these days?
 

trooper11

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
343
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Trooper11 made some sense until he said, " We need a leader that can articulate points like that and come up with the smart policies that make this country work and prosper."

Which is exactly why the GOP lost big in the election of 2006 and 2008, they lock step stuck with a GWB who did everything but make this country work and prosper.

And that is the GOP dilemma in a nutshell, they got exactly what they had been bellying aching for for the past 50 years with GWB, the GOP tried the experiment in the real world, and discovered that what the GOP wanted and advocated, and having the country work and prosper are two mutually exclusive things.

When that is the result, you can have either GOP rule but not prosperity, or democratic rule and prosperity, it does present a problem for the GOP.


but thats exactly my point, they didnt come up with the smart policies during the last several years to really show why the conservative ideals can work for prosperity. many of the leaders that gained powered squandered that for whatever reason. I dont know why they decided to fly in the face of conservative ideas by going on a spending spree and at the same time cutting taxes that didnt amount to much growth. but for that reason, they lost the confidence of the people, and I dont blame anyone for feeling that way, I have felt the same.
 

trooper11

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
343
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I think you are taking precisely the wrong lesson from the last election. Republicans nominated McCain because he was the only one who even had a chance at beating Obama or Hillary. Had they nominated someone even more conservative it would have been even more of a slaughter.

The GOP has an economic message that can and will resonate with enough voters that they can stop losing all these elections in a few years when people are ready to believe them again. A lot of their social positions are dead end losers though. I guess we'll see how that fight within the party goes.


I dont know, I wonder how things would have turned out if the economy hadnt faultered so suddenly near the end of the election. Looking back, picking somone with a greater knowledge of the economy would have probably been a great asset and been a real draw for voters.


i have to disagree about the social positions though. they arent dead, they just have been poorly explained. On top of that, I think what needs to be done is make it clear that even if someone has a dissagreement about social issues, it doesnt mean that they cant have a voice in the republican party. The party should embrace the different views not in order to choose one over the others, but to welcome the debate.
 

trooper11

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
343
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn



Is that what King Rush is calling him these days?


nah, i think that was first brought up by one of the other radio show hosts, i havent even heard Rush use the term.
 
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