SFF (node 202) workstation for intern

[college_student]

Hi all,

We're getting this really bright intern this fall to help us with some development work. Unfortunately we kind of give them the crappiest tiny desks. I repurposed a Dell 34" 1440p monitor for her. But I want to build a Node 202 SFF machine for her work. This will fit nicely on her desk.

Just eye ball these parts and let me know if this looks ok. Main concern is budget v. perform ($800-1000 but less is much better).
My main question is: She'll be running scripts that are mostly single threaded, but run on several datasets, which can all run in parallel. So the multiple cores help for sure, just not sure if 8 is that much better than 6 (since the number of parallel instances are RAM limited at some point). Also I want to OC as much as I can given the thermal limitations of Node 202.
I saw online that you can mod the wraith spire to fit in the node 202. But I'm happy to invest in a cooler if you think it helps. So given this use case what is best? 1500/1600/1700? Dare I even bring up Intel (since this is a budget constrained build).

Parts (all from Newegg only)
CPU: Ryzen 1500/1600/1700(?)
Mobo: AsRock X370 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4
Case: Node 202 (vertical) + integrated PSU
RAM: 16GB G.SKILL Flare X 3200 DDR4 (2X8GB)
SSD: 2TB Samsung 850 Pro (HAVE -- Repurposing)
GPU: Titan Black (HAVE -- Repurposing)
OS: Ubuntu (Free)

[PCPartPicker part list]
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/X4MTLD


Thanks!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

First of all, is there any particular reason you're building a work system yourself?

Just curious.

Parts (all from Newegg only)
CPU: Ryzen 1500/1600/1700(?)
Mobo: AsRock X370 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4
Case: Node 202 (vertical) + integrated PSU
RAM: 16GB G.SKILL Flare X 3200 DDR4 (2X8GB)
SSD: 2TB Samsung 850 Pro (HAVE -- Repurposing)
GPU: Titan Black (HAVE -- Repurposing)
OS: Ubuntu (Free)

Looks good. Don't forget to add a graphics card, since Ryzen doesn't have an IGP. If you already have an older or spare card, it is even better. Since this workload doesn't involve GPU compute, you can use anything that has a display output.

So given this use case what is best? 1500/1600/1700? Dare I even bring up Intel (since this is a budget constrained build).

Since it's on a budget, its really hard not to recommend the 1600X. It has the same frequency as the more expensive 1800X, just two less cores. Which I wouldn't think isn't an issue here, and you get the nice, full 16MB L3 cache.

The problem is the 95W TDP. I don't think there are any low profile coolers that can handle it.

 

[college_student]

First of all, is there any particular reason you're building a work system yourself?

Just curious.



Looks good. Don't forget to add a graphics card, since Ryzen doesn't have an IGP. If you already have an older or spare card, it is even better. Since this workload doesn't involve GPU compute, you can use anything that has a display output.



Since it's on a budget, its really hard not to recommend the 1600X. It has the same frequency as the more expensive 1800X, just two less cores. Which I wouldn't think isn't an issue here, and you get the nice, full 16MB L3 cache.

The problem is the 95W TDP. I don't think there are any low profile coolers that can handle it.

Thanks for the reply. We've always just built our own instead of buying because it's been easier to get the specs we want in the form factor we need. Space is a premium here...

We have a "spare" Titan Black, which she will sparingly use for double precision compute. I thought I listed this in the OP. Maybe I didn't. Sorry.

Isn't the "X" version for "succers" and the 1600 probably the right one to go with? I plan to mod the Node 202 very mildly to get the Wraith Spire to fit. But then following that logic through to its conclusion, maybe the 1700 is the way to go. I could maybe OC to ~1600 levels and the extra 4 threads could be very useful for many of our applications (if we are not ram limited). Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Thanks for the reply. We've always just built our own instead of buying because it's been easier to get the specs we want in the form factor we need. Space is a premium here...

Nothing wrong with rolling your own. Its just that enterprise settings usually doesn't for various reasons. But occasionally you need something you just can't get anywhere.

We have a "spare" Titan Black, which she will sparingly use for double precision compute. I thought I listed this in the OP. Maybe I didn't. Sorry.

Can't be much better. Very nice.

Isn't the "X" version for "succers" and the 1600 probably the right one to go with? I plan to mod the Node 202 very mildly to get the Wraith Spire to fit. But then following that logic through to its conclusion, maybe the 1700 is the way to go. I could maybe OC to ~1600 levels and the extra 4 threads could be very useful for many of our applications (if we are not ram limited). Thoughts?

The key frase with the X's is "XFR". It gets you up to 200MHz extra for X series Ryzen, provided thermals are inside the acceptable range. The regular non-X just gets 50. Think of it as official sanctioned automatic overclocking.

I have a 1700non-X myself. Its a good chip, but since you specifically mention single thread performance, the 1700 isn't the best chip to get, because the maximum all-core boost is only 3.2GHz. So single thread performance is a bit lagging outside lightly threaded workloads (>2 cores). There it can boost to 3750MHz. As a compensation it has a very nice 65W TDP.

The 1600X can turbo all the way to 4.1GHz on two cores and 3.7GHz on all cores. Depending on what you're specifically doing that extra 500MHz per core -could- offset the two missing cores.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1861?vs=1851

As you can see, past the gaming tests, the 1600X wins anything requiring single thread performance, while the 1700 wins anything you can throw more threads at. Its a trade-off.

Thanks.

You're welcome...

 

[college_student]

Nothing wrong with rolling your own. Its just that enterprise settings usually doesn't for various reasons. But occasionally you need something you just can't get anywhere.



Can't be much better. Very nice.



The key frase with the X's is "XFR". It gets you up to 200MHz extra for X series Ryzen, provided thermals are inside the acceptable range. The regular non-X just gets 50. Think of it as official sanctioned automatic overclocking.

I have a 1700non-X myself. Its a good chip, but since you specifically mention single thread performance, the 1700 isn't the best chip to get, because the maximum all-core boost is only 3.2GHz. So single thread performance is a bit lagging outside lightly threaded workloads (>2 cores). There it can boost to 3750MHz. As a compensation it has a very nice 65W TDP.

The 1600X can turbo all the way to 4.1GHz on two cores and 3.7GHz on all cores. Depending on what you're specifically doing that extra 500MHz per core -could- offset the two missing cores.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1861?vs=1851

As you can see, past the gaming tests, the 1600X wins anything requiring single thread performance, while the 1700 wins anything you can throw more threads at. Its a trade-off.



You're welcome...

Many thanks for your help. I have two follow on questions if you would be kind enough to oblidge.

1. My personal rig is a 5930K which handles most tasks I throw at it no problem. I guess I want her rig to be comparable. The 1600X does come with a cooler, so 1600X + cooler ~= 1700 in terms of price. The question then is would a decent cooler (Cryorig C7 or Noctua L9a) help OC the 1600X (albeit the thermals of 202 are bad) somewhat to really push it past the 1700 making this a "nobrainer"?

2. The Nvidia recommended PSU wattage for the Titan Black seems to be 600W, so I guess I need to upgrade the bundled 450W with the 202 huh? :/

Thanks.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I think you need to look at micro-ATX cases instead.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

1. My personal rig is a 5930K which handles most tasks I throw at it no problem. I guess I want her rig to be comparable. The 1600X does come with a cooler, so 1600X + cooler ~= 1700 in terms of price. The question then is would a decent cooler (Cryorig C7 or Noctua L9a) help OC the 1600X (albeit the thermals of 202 are bad) somewhat to really push it past the 1700 making this a "nobrainer"?

Properbly not in a case that small. Don't forget the heat has to get out of the case too, and there is another rather large heat source in the case too. Also, make no mistake, the Wraith Spire will be loud when pushed. The Noctua L9x65 SE-AM4 might be an option, but I don't think it'll fit in the case as it is 65mm tall. The product page for the node 202 only specify 56mm max cooler height.

Perhaps dave is right. You can get very small mATX cases, where thermals will be much better, as you can add a few fans to help move air.

I think you need to look at micro-ATX cases instead.

2. The Nvidia recommended PSU wattage for the Titan Black seems to be 600W, so I guess I need to upgrade the bundled 450W with the 202 huh? :/

I'd certainly feel better if the included one was a single rail design, also a reason to consider mATX where you can usually use standard ATX PSUs.

 

[cbn]

1. My personal rig is a 5930K which handles most tasks I throw at it no problem. I guess I want her rig to be comparable. The 1600X does come with a cooler, so 1600X + cooler ~= 1700 in terms of price. The question then is would a decent cooler (Cryorig C7 or Noctua L9a) help OC the 1600X (albeit the thermals of 202 are bad) somewhat to really push it past the 1700 making this a "nobrainer"?

If you really need a small case (for use with a Nvidia Titan Black dGPU) I would look into getting a Silverstone RVZ02 instead of Node 202 (re: RVZ02 has much better dGPU cooling than Node 202). The for the CPU consider using a stock FM2+ 95W "quiet cooler" (shown below).

This 58mm tall copper cored cooler has the same mounting system as a AM4 heatsink and will just fit.

P.S. Here is what the Silverstone Argon AR06 cooler (another cooler which is 58mm tall) looks like mounted inside a RVZ02 (with clear side window):

 

[Ancalagon44]

Can I ask why you want to build a SFF PC for a workstation? I would have thought a larger case would be preferable for a workstation PC. I remember the last time I had a workstation PC (have been using laptops since then), I had this HP with a full size ATX case.

Also, why the Titan Black? Does your work involve the GPU? If not, just buy a modern cheap GPU. Will save you on power and noise.

EDIT: I see, sometimes you need double precision compute.

I would personally not OC a workstation either. The last thing you want is the thing crashing halfway through an hour long compute task. I'd rather tasks take a little bit longer than have even a small chance of a crash.

 

[cbn]

Also, why the Titan Black? Does your work involve the GPU? If not, just buy a modern cheap GPU. Will save you on power and noise.

EDIT: I see, sometimes you need double precision compute.

How does Titan Black (GK110) compare to the various Pascal cards in terms of double precision?

EDIT: Here are some listings for various GPUs. This compared to the 1.3 TFLOPS of double precision for Titan Black (see link below).

https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/graphics/nvidia-gtx-titan-black-launched/1/

Nvidia states the Titan Black will have single-precision performance of 5.1 TeraFlops and double-precision performance of 1.3 Tera Flops

So Titan Black has more than 3x the double precision of Titan Xp (.380 TFLOPS double precision), but only around one 1/4 the double precision of Tesla P100 (4.7 to 5.3 TFLOPS double precision).

 

[Ancalagon44]

How does Titan Black (GK110) compare to the various Pascal cards in terms of double precision?

The Maxwell and Pascal cards are way, way lower. Like not even one quarter of Titan Black's DP capabilities.

To get higher double precision compute, he would need to look at a Quadro or Tesla, which are big bucks.

 

[college_student]

Thanks folks.
I already own a Titian Black (from a previous build) so it's easiest to just re-use that instead of spending more money

Our workflow usually involves launching multiple instances to process a large number of files, where each instance works independently on a single file. So even if it crashes mid way through, it's fine bc after each instance is done it writes the answer to a specific place. Hope that makes sense.

And SFF mostly bc we are in a crammed place so we have to put the computer on the desk. Well the intern does anyway

Thanks.