Shooting Death in UK

[Nebor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_...ucks/herts/6969909.stm.

Frankly I think this story is made up. There aren't any guns in England. Guns are illegal there.

 

[Genx87]

That is true, guns being illegal makes this story an impossibility.

 

[Triumph]

lol

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: Genx87
That is true, guns being illegal makes this story an impossibility.

QFT

 

[Jaskalas]

I think the Brits were successful. No law abiding citizen has an effective weapon to defend themselves with.

 

[kmmatney]

Originally posted by: Nebor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_...ucks/herts/6969909.stm.

Frankly I think this story is made up. There aren't any guns in England. Guns are illegal there.

I'll bite...

There are far fewer guns in the UK, and far fewer gun deaths - go figure...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: kmmatney

Originally posted by: Nebor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_...ucks/herts/6969909.stm.

Frankly I think this story is made up. There aren't any guns in England. Guns are illegal there.

I'll bite...

There are far fewer guns in the UK, and far fewer gun deaths - go figure...

Your correlation does not create causation. There are other countries in the world that have outlawed guns that have considerably more gun deaths than the US (Russia, for example).

Why... you probably won't believe it, but murder and war occurred before guns were even invented!! :Q

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Nebor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_...ucks/herts/6969909.stm.

Frankly I think this story is made up. There aren't any guns in England. Guns are illegal there.

LOL

 

[Grabo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Why... you probably won't believe it, but murder and war occurred before guns were even invented!! :Q

Firearms just make it easier. Yes, you can stab someone to death with a toothpick, but there's a reason some people like firearms as a means of 'personal protection'.

I have, sometimes during idle time, wondered how kids dare steal apples in some parts of the U.S? From trees, I mean. On other people's personal property. (On a sidenote, that might well be a pretty outdated notion )

I just don't see the security in knowing that everyone is sitting on a loaded gun. But then, I didn't grow up in the States. Maybe I would see if I had.

The issue with illegal guns is huge in some parts of the world, but what I'm saying is that I don't think making it very easy to legally keep them for whatever reason is the solution.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Grabo

Originally posted by: Vic

Why... you probably won't believe it, but murder and war occurred before guns were even invented!! :Q

Firearms just make it easier. Yes, you can stab someone to death with a toothpick, but there's a reason some people like firearms as a means of 'personal protection'.

I have, sometimes during idle time, wondered how kids dare steal apples in some parts of the U.S? From trees, I mean. On other people's personal property.

I just don't see the security in knowing that everyone is sitting on a loaded gun. But then, I didn't grow up in the States. Maybe I would see if I had.

The issue with illegal guns is huge in some parts of the world, but what I'm saying is that I don't think making it very easy to legally keep them for whatever reason is the solution.

Do you own a gun? I ask that because I feel much more secure knowing that I have a gun to defend my home, my family, and myself.

 

[Grabo]

I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

I guess nobody feels they need a gun until they actually do.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

1. How do you know that your neighbors don't own a gun?

2. Are your neighbors criminals? Why are you scared of them?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

I guess nobody feels they need a gun until they actually do.

:thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Grabo:

Firearms didn't make killing "easier," it made it more equal. Consider your toothpick example. That would require a considerable amount of skill and strength, right? Hell, it'd probably be easier to just use your bare hands. OTOH, a little old granny could take out a strong and healthy 20 year-old man with her pocketbook handgun if necessary, now couldn't she?

That's the security. When you argue that guns should be illegal, you're not only going against basic market dynamics that show that people that want them will get them anyway, but you're fighting against the most basic principles of democracy, and expressing a desire for the strong to rule the weak and for the weak to have no protection from that.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

You fear your neighbors so much then?

 

[Grabo]

True, I suppose. But it depends on your viewpoint, so totally. As I said, I think everyone sitting on a loaded gun is a false sense of security; and I'd probably have had to grow up in a gun-friendly society to be able to appreciate the point of firearms as personal protection.

I don't fear guns, now, and no one I know does. You might say that makes me naive and unprepared, I might say that's a good thing about my environment. But meh anyways eh? It's not as if anyone ever got anything constructive from a gun-argument

That was for JD.

Vic:

See above..and perhaps a census as to what society's people feel more secure on the whole would quell this dead horse. More than likely not though.

Additionally, I don't believe that a market economy should be given totally free reigns on the basis that 'people will get what they want anyway', and as for firearms and democracry? Sigh..I'm just glad no one I know reasons like that.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Grabo
True, I suppose. But it depends on your viewpoint, so totally. As I said, I think everyone sitting on a loaded gun is a false sense of security; and I'd probably have had to grow up in a gun-friendly society to be able to appreciate the point of firearms as personal protection.

I don't fear guns, now, and no one I know does. You might say that makes me naive and unprepared, I might say that's a good thing about my environment. But meh anyways eh? It's not as if anyone ever got anything constructive from a gun-argument

Its not a false sense of security. If 3 men broke into my house I could defend myself and my family with my gun. If I did not have that gun I would have a much more dificult time defending myself and my family.

Edit - Not to mention that fact that it would be basically impossible for a dictator to take over this country due to the prevalance of firearms in this country.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Grabo
True, I suppose. But it depends on your viewpoint, so totally. As I said, I think everyone sitting on a loaded gun is a false sense of security; and I'd probably have had to grow up in a gun-friendly society to be able to appreciate the point of firearms as personal protection.

I don't fear guns, now, and no one I know does. You might say that makes me naive and unprepared, I might say that's a good thing about my environment. But meh anyways eh? It's not as if anyone ever got anything constructive from a gun-argument

I think you have the issue horribly confused. It has nothing to do with fearing guns, security, personal protection, environment, or your neighbors.

It's democracy. The people are the government and the government is the people. So ask yourself, why is your armed government disarming its people? Does that sound genuinely democratic to you?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Grabo
Vic:

See above..and perhaps a census as to what society's people feel more secure on the whole would quell this dead horse. More than likely not though.

Additionally, I don't believe that a market economy should be given totally free reigns on the basis that 'people will get what they want anyway', and as for firearms and democracry? Sigh..I'm just glad no one I know reasons like that.

Who said "free reign?" Not I. It's just that an outlawed market is an unregulated market. That's common sense.

You're glad that no one you know reasons like that? Hell, I'm surprised you trust your neighbors enough to let them vote. That's far more dangerous than a gun.

edit: and if this issue is a "dead horse," why do you care so much about it? FYI: you're not on the passive side of the issue.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

You know, I was unfortunate enough to have to use a gun once. I don't own one now for fear my children might get a hold of it despite my best efforts to prevent that. The bottom line is however, if I hadn't owned a gun when I did, everything I owned would have driven off down the road never to be seen again. So anyone wanting to trumpet it's useless for self defense can take that argument home with them and pray they never find out how wrong they are. But, do the rest of us a favor and keep that BS to yourself.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

To everyone that thinks that way, I urge you to put up large signs in your yard saying, "I do not feel that I need to own a gun, and thus this is a gun free household."

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Grabo
I don't. And I feel more secure knowing that most of my neighbours don't, either.

To everyone that thinks that way, I urge you to put up large signs in your yard saying, "I do not feel that I need to own a gun, and thus this is a gun free household."

:thumbsup::laugh::thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Well, except that doesn't properly address what Grabo said. It's not that Grabo is disarmed that makes him feel secure, but that his neighbors are disarmed. He was very clear about that, which is why I pointed out to him that he has an active (and not passive) position on the issue.
I think that's the wool that the anti-gunners pull over the eyes of the public. That they're the passive ones. They act almost as though they are trying to preserve a right for the people (in this case, the imaginary right to feel safe). And that simply isn't true. They are actively working to revoke a right from the people.

 

[kmmatney]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Grabo
True, I suppose. But it depends on your viewpoint, so totally. As I said, I think everyone sitting on a loaded gun is a false sense of security; and I'd probably have had to grow up in a gun-friendly society to be able to appreciate the point of firearms as personal protection.

I don't fear guns, now, and no one I know does. You might say that makes me naive and unprepared, I might say that's a good thing about my environment. But meh anyways eh? It's not as if anyone ever got anything constructive from a gun-argument

I think you have the issue horribly confused. It has nothing to do with fearing guns, security, personal protection, environment, or your neighbors.

It's democracy. The people are the government and the government is the people. So ask yourself, why is your armed government disarming its people? Does that sound genuinely democratic to you?

It sounds fine to me if by "disarming its people" you are talking about semi-automatic rifles, assault rifles, etc...