Should I buy an E46 M3?

[repoman0]

It'd be a daily driver near Boston, MA (for now, it may move elsewhere with me in a couple years).

I currently drive an automatic 2003 E46 330i with ~135k miles and owning this has taught me basically everything I know about how cars work and how to work on them. It's only been to a shop once in the 2+ years I've owned it and has been extremely reliable although I have done my share of maintenance on it. It's in good shape, except it has been burning a good amount of oil lately and the suspension is in need of a refresh. But, I am getting tired of the automatic transmission (thought I'd be sitting in traffic a lot, but in reality traffic pisses me off so much anyway that I leave for work at 6am to avoid it). For the price people are asking for a decent 6-speed 330i/ci, an M3 isn't too much of a step up in price, maintenance or fuel costs. Plus, race car, etc..

Anyway. I've really liked the E46 ever since it came out when I was 10, and the M3 version is awesome for being performance oriented yet relatively subtle and laid-back (I like driving a nice car that doesn't look like it's trying too hard to be flashy). I could probably debadge it and the average person would think "just another jabroni-mobile BMW" rather than "that's a jabroni-mobile even more so than the rest of these BMWs" -- which is great for me.

So -- I'm 25, electrical engineer with stable job, little student debt, can easily afford the payment for ~$20k in 3-4 years, can do most of the maintenance myself, and am perfectly used to the terrible fuel economy I'd get, plus I ride my bike anywhere around the city for the most part. I'm looking for well-maintained cars with around 60k miles or fewer. Tell me that I'm an idiot and why, suggest alternatives, "bcuz M3 bro," etc. Thanks!

 

[AznAnarchy99]

If you can maintain it it's awesome. If not I wouldn't recommend it. My buddy bought one for about $25k, 80ish thousand miles. First year he had to put in 6k in repairs. He told me that if he could do it again he wouldn't buy it.

 

[repoman0]

Thanks for the insight -- do you happen to know what went wrong with your buddy's car? I've read a few stories like that one, and fortunately for other future buyers (still unfortunately for the current owners) some of the bigger issues can be pretty easily preventatively addressed (I can prep the VANOS for not destroying itself and pay a shop to weld a subframe reinforcement in, and the years I'm looking at, 04-06, had no rod bearing issues)

But yeah most typical maintenance I can do myself and I haven't found regular non-m parts to be particularly expensive. I know that M parts will be more but probably not ridiculously so

 

[Railgun]

First M I drove was an E46 that I was car sitting at the time. Absolutely loved it. This owner was absolutely meticulous with it too. He just sold it with less than 30k on the clocks.

Just like any car, maint may be high, but a good example, when treated well, shouldn't be astronomical in expenses.

6k is a lot...I'm guessing the previous owner beat the hell out of it.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

If you can fix it then you should do it. Honestly that car didn't have any problems that really plagued it EXCEPT for the cracked subframe issues. Just see what kind of maintenance has been done on whatever you buy, check it out thoroughly, and expect to spend several thousand dollars in the near future on high performance car maintenance on anything over 80k miles. I think the most important thing to remember about M3s is that of all performance cars, these probably get beat to shit by their owners the most.

 

[repoman0]

Cool, I think I'm gonna go for it. I e-mailed this guy:

Autotrader 04 M3

There's another black one with 48k miles in Pennsylvania for $22k, but I'd prefer the dark gray metallic color (not silver) or some kind of dark-ish blue like the above linked one. My 330i is black and it looks nice after a wash but quickly looks dirty. "Imola Red" is sexy too but too conspicuous -- sort of kills the subtle look I like about the car.

Anyway I may see if I can just find a garage spot to park for the winter since I'm guessing they're cheaper now as opposed to next spring -- what do you guys think? Then I can drive my car for the winter and sell in May or so, should be able to get $3-4k super easy and $5k or a little less with some patience. It should have around 140k miles on it at that point. As a bonus, my credit union's auto loan rates are 2.19% for up to 5-6 years or something ridiculous like that, and as far as I can tell there's no reason to go for a shorter term since I can easily invest the difference at 5+% and just pay it off early if I feel the need ...

Also, has anyone here bought a car out of state? Did you just fly there, check it out, deal with temp plates and drive home? That's what I'd do ideally (after PPI, higher res photos, chat with the owner about the history, etc...) and then learn to drive manual on a car as opposed to motorcycle during the 800 mile journey back here (for that particular car, not sure I'd go much further than that).

 

[lavaheadache]

My 2005 911 Carrera that I bought a year ago today has been care free so far. 54k on the odo and climbing. People say that they are the everyday exotic Maybe check one out... or you could just come down to the Cape and buy mine so I can get an "S" =)

 

[jlee]

Cool, I think I'm gonna go for it. I e-mailed this guy:

Autotrader 04 M3

There's another black one with 48k miles in Pennsylvania for $22k, but I'd prefer the dark gray metallic color (not silver) or some kind of dark-ish blue like the above linked one. My 330i is black and it looks nice after a wash but quickly looks dirty. "Imola Red" is sexy too but too conspicuous -- sort of kills the subtle look I like about the car.

Anyway I may see if I can just find a garage spot to park for the winter since I'm guessing they're cheaper now as opposed to next spring -- what do you guys think? Then I can drive my car for the winter and sell in May or so, should be able to get $3-4k super easy and $5k or a little less with some patience. It should have around 140k miles on it at that point. As a bonus, my credit union's auto loan rates are 2.19% for up to 5-6 years or something ridiculous like that, and as far as I can tell there's no reason to go for a shorter term since I can easily invest the difference at 5+% and just pay it off early if I feel the need ...

Also, has anyone here bought a car out of state? Did you just fly there, check it out, deal with temp plates and drive home? That's what I'd do ideally (after PPI, higher res photos, chat with the owner about the history, etc...) and then learn to drive manual on a car as opposed to motorcycle during the 800 mile journey back here (for that particular car, not sure I'd go much further than that).

I have been known to deliver, but sadly I don't have any M3's for sale.

For my last out of state purchase, I bought a one-way ticket and hoped he wasn't lying to me.

 

[repoman0]

My 2005 911 Carrera that I bought a year ago today has been care free so far. 54k on the odo and climbing. People say that they are the everyday exotic Maybe check one out... or you could just come down to the Cape and buy mine so I can get an "S" =)

Haha, my friend actually just rented an 09 911 Carrera this past weekend, coincidentally. We drove up to NH and to Lake Winipassake or however the hell you spell it, with me following behind on my SV650 starting in Portsmouth .. anyway, man that thing was ridiculously FAST. Beautiful interior, cool crazy bug styling, and we actually looked up prices after we returned it It's a bit small and exotic for an only car, and based on our price lookup a bit more expensive than an M3! Also, the back seats were hilarious! And the "AC Off" button instead of just "AC", goofiness of rear-engine, but it definitely drove beautifully.

And, although we were laughing about the fact that it appeared to have roof rack mounts, another bonus of the M3 is that I already have a nice roof rack + 2 bike rack setup .. in my opinion, the sexiness of a nice semi-aggressive sporty car increases by around a factor of two with a couple nice bikes on top of it

I have been known to deliver, but sadly I don't have any M3's for sale.

For my last out of state purchase, I bought a one-way ticket and hoped he wasn't lying to me.

Nice! How far away was that and for what car? Did it work out?

 

[Insomniator]

Lucky you can work on cars... If I knew what I was doing I'd definitely have an M3... maybe a few other weird old expensive cars too.

Do it!

 

[jlee]

Nice! How far away was that and for what car? Did it work out?

I flew from Phoenix to Reno to pick up my Lexus (pic in sig). There were a couple things he didn't mention, but overall I was quite happy with it.

 

[CurseTheSky]

The biggest consideration is what you'd do if it left you stranded or strapped for cash.

IMO, it's not a great "only car." If you could back it up with some cheap econobox without making yourself broke, I'd say go for it. If you don't have room or money for more than one vehicle, I personally wouldn't do it.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Of course, the one cost you didn't consider is the mod bug. That can get very expensive very quickly. You have been warned.

 

[repoman0]

I flew from Phoenix to Reno to pick up my Lexus (pic in sig). There were a couple things he didn't mention, but overall I was quite happy with it.

Man, that place looks way more fun than this place. Boston is a beautiful city but the roads and parks and coastline out west are fantastic -- I gotta get out there!

Lucky you can work on cars... If I knew what I was doing I'd definitely have an M3... maybe a few other weird old expensive cars too.

Do it!

Anybody can work on cars these days .. Just takes some patience, the right tools, and the ability to look stuff up on the internet or read a service manual. I got a great intro to automotive work when my power steering died in my dad's driveway a month or two after getting my 330i power steering reservoir, pump and fluid line replacement along with cooling system replacement, fun way to spend a day.

Owning an M3 would be a great way to learn, you might as well get one too -- just don't buy mine

The biggest consideration is what you'd do if it left you stranded or strapped for cash.

IMO, it's not a great "only car." If you could back it up with some cheap econobox without making yourself broke, I'd say go for it. If you don't have room or money for more than one vehicle, I personally wouldn't do it.

I've got a couple of the ultimate trustworthy vehicles .. Road bikes. Really I don't need a car at all but 15 miles each way daily to work gets tiresome, especially in the cold, and public transport out there is an extra 20-30 mins vs driving. But, not the end of the world if I need to take alternative transportation for a week or two.

I don't expect it to be any less reliable than my 330 .. Maybe I'm mistaken? Actually I expect it to be more reliable because collective paranoia of the internet has caused me to believe that my auto transmission could die at any given moment.

 

[repoman0]

Of course, the one cost you didn't consider is the mod bug. That can get very expensive very quickly. You have been warned.

Ha, maybe an exhaust, wheel stud conversion, and painted calipers if they look anything like the hunks of rust on my 330, but I can't imagine wanting to do much more than that!

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I don't expect it to be any less reliable than my 330 .. Maybe I'm mistaken? Actually I expect it to be more reliable because collective paranoia of the internet has caused me to believe that my auto transmission could die at any given moment.

And you're not afraid of the SMG pump catastrophically exploding on you with the fury of 1,000 suns? Or are you hunting down a manual? =p

 

[repoman0]

And you're not afraid of the SMG pump catastrophically exploding on you with the fury of 1,000 suns? Or are you hunting down a manual? =p

6-speed manual for sure

 

[Mandres]

some of the bigger issues can be pretty easily preventatively addressed (I can prep the VANOS for not destroying itself and pay a shop to weld a subframe reinforcement in, and the years I'm looking at, 04-06, had no rod bearing issues)

This statement shows that you've done enough homework not to need be afraid of an "unreliable" car. Go for it!

 

[halik]

Had an 04 SMG loaner for the weekend, I would highly recommend not getting that transmission. Besides not being very fast, it's surprisingly terrible if you're trying to accelerate in the lower gears. Lots of clutch bouncing etc.

 

[repoman0]

Hopefully sending this in for a pre-purchase inspection in the near future!

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=487916

Do you guys think it makes more sense for me to go look at the car first or just have him get the inspection done and then go look at it when the results are available? It's around two hours away. Vehicle buying is confusing as hell .. especially since I intend to store the car for the winter and don't really want to register/insure it right away.

Also, this vehicle buying business is particularly difficult because I'm not comfortable test driving someone else's manual car, lots of learning to do first .........

 

[Koing]

Had an 04 SMG loaner for the weekend, I would highly recommend not getting that transmission. Besides not being very fast, it's surprisingly terrible if you're trying to accelerate in the lower gears. Lots of clutch bouncing etc.

I came from a S2000 and the SMG is okay. I guess I'm use to it after nearly 5yrs? In the slower gears or any gear just take your foot off the gas a little and then change up. If you leave it in auto mode it is a bit sh!t and you need it in the right setting to be fast or as slow as you want.

I have no experience with any of the newer DCT stuff.

Koing

 

[pauldun170]

Just going to toss this out there
E46 production run ended in 2006.
A lot of the knowledge base around that generation was based on user experience of new through 2nd owner cars. Some may have seen high miles but the cars were fairly new.

The cars on the road are now getting pretty old, and there is the risk that more and unexpected issues are going to pop up and surprise new owners of what are now old cars.

So you are ready to deal with the VANOS and subframes and lot of other issues that are common.
Then you have to deal with worn suspension, shot bushings. Leaking master cylinders\lines. Perhaps a weepy gasket or two. Interior its falling off. Cracked fasteners. Corrosion. All the universal things that hit all cars once they've been on the road for a over a decade. You have had good luck with your current 2003, but others have not been so lucky.

I'm only saying this because I feel I HAVE to say it prior to saying what I really want to say, which is


Should you purchase an E46 M3?
You only live once...
Do it now before a spouse puts your purchasing decisions in check.

 

[TridenT]

I was looking at BMW E46 M3's as well. E46s are pretty much the only BMWs that I like for their looks. I don't like the looks of the rest.

Anyway, there are so many issues with E46 M3's that you need to have a shit ton of money to go into the process. You're not going to be getting a good deal. The car will have a lot of issues and some of them will be really expensive. It's just a matter of whether you can live with that or not. (Do you have boatloads of money to throw around? It doesn't sound like it. You're taking this car out on a loan. I never planned on getting a loan for mine. I was going to pay everything with cash.)

They are quite expensive and are hard to find with <100k miles on the clock. Even when you do find them with over 100k miles, they still fetch $15k+ if they're in any kind of decent condition. On top of that, convertibles are about the only thing I see on the market. So, you pay a premium for a non-convertible too. Try to get a good BMW E46 M3, non-convertible, most options, manual, and in laguna seca blue... that's probably 20k+ regardless of miles.

EDIT: Also, what people said about this being your only car... real bad idea. I never planned on this being my only car UNLESS I was living in NYC and had my own garage to work on it in brooklyn or something of that sort. (And the reason I would let it be my only car in NYC is because I bike and can take the subway. I would only drive the car for pleasure, trips to other cities, and for going out at night. I would never rely on it for work because I wouldn't use it to get to work.)

 

[jlee]

I was looking at BMW E46 M3's as well. E46s are pretty much the only BMWs that I like for their looks. I don't like the looks of the rest.

Anyway, there are so many issues with E46 M3's that you need to have a shit ton of money to go into the process. You're not going to be getting a good deal. The car will have a lot of issues and some of them will be really expensive. It's just a matter of whether you can live with that or not. (Do you have boatloads of money to throw around? It doesn't sound like it. You're taking this car out on a loan. I never planned on getting a loan for mine. I was going to pay everything with cash.)

They are quite expensive and are hard to find with <100k miles on the clock. Even when you do find them with over 100k miles, they still fetch $15k+ if they're in any kind of decent condition. On top of that, convertibles are about the only thing I see on the market. So, you pay a premium for a non-convertible too. Try to get a good BMW E46 M3, non-convertible, most options, manual, and in laguna seca blue... that's probably 20k+ regardless of miles.

EDIT: Also, what people said about this being your only car... real bad idea. I never planned on this being my only car UNLESS I was living in NYC and had my own garage to work on it in brooklyn or something of that sort. (And the reason I would let it be my only car in NYC is because I bike and can take the subway. I would only drive the car for pleasure, trips to other cities, and for going out at night. I would never rely on it for work because I wouldn't use it to get to work.)

I thought you drove a Civic that was always broken, and then you were looking at a Prius.

Doesn't sound to me like you should be criticizing someone for looking at an M3..but hey, what do I know? Car enthusiasts don't generally buy fast cars because they're practical. We buy them because we love them.

 

[Wuzup101]

Anyway, there are so many issues with E46 M3's that you need to have a shit ton of money to go into the process. You're not going to be getting a good deal. The car will have a lot of issues and some of them will be really expensive. It's just a matter of whether you can live with that or not. (Do you have boatloads of money to throw around? It doesn't sound like it. You're taking this car out on a loan. I never planned on getting a loan for mine. I was going to pay everything with cash.)

Interest rates are super low so it doesn't make sense to pay for a car in cash unless you want to tell a bunch of people on the internet that you paid for your car in cash (or you suck at investing and keep all your cash under your mattress). New car loans barely outpace inflation. For example, the gov recently released the 2014 inflation rate as 1.7%. My credit union told me they would loan me the full purchase price of a new car for 66 months at 1.75% (this was for a 2015 corvette). Why would I want to buy this vehicle in cash? In the current market, taking out a loan is the smart way to purchase for anyone who is responsible and can manage their finances. The OP has already said that his CU does just over 2% for used cars. Literally all you need to do to beat that after inflation is taken into account is put your money in a high yield savings/checking account (which probably will be "almost" 1%).

In regards to the e46 M3: They are my favorite M3 thus far (though I haven't driven the newest generation). My roommate has a e46 ZHP 330i that drives really nice. Personally, the 330i would be my choice. While the e46 m3 is great, it's overpriced for a car that is a decade old. If you could get a good condition one for like 15k, I would say go for it. 22-25k for a manual coupe is silly. If I'm spending that kind of money on a german "sports car" it's going to be something like this: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...t=[POR[CAYMAN[]][]]&listingId=381698657&Log=0