Should I OC my 7970?

[blackrook]

I bought an XFX 7970 DD that was on sale at TigerDirect for $218 after tax, shipping, and rebates. I was considering getting a 7870 instead, but benchmarks seemed to not show it capable of maxing games out at that 1080 at a playable framerate.

I've never OC'ed (let alone built a PC) before, but I read that the XFX 7970 DD is EVEN WORSE than the reference design when it comes to heat/noise/OC ability.

In that light, should I even try OC'ing it? How much does OC'ing affect the life of the card? Wouldn't it also void the lifetime warranty?

And a last question. I see please talking about mining "litecoins" with video cards like the 7970. But it seems like it puts even more stress on the card than gaming. Would OC'ing improve performance or make it more unstable? Would it also impact the useful life? Why do nVidia cards never get mentioned for mining purposes?

 

[blackened23]

It shouldn't hurt to OC a bit, but I wouldn't touch the voltage with an XFX DD 7970. That seems to have caused numerous problems with others trying to OC that model..

 

[Stuka87]

The XFX cards run much hotter than most any other 7970. Personally I would not unless you happen to be in a very cold room.

 

[3DVagabond]

From what I've seen, it's quite effective at cooling the GPU. It's the VRM's that run hotter with that design. I wouldn't go pumping 1.3v through it like you can with some of the better designs, but simply maxing out the clocks isn't going to create any issues.

With coin mining stability is very important and the card runs 95%+ continuously. "Gaming stable" O/C's might not be "mining stable". The only components that should see significant accelerated wear from mining are the fans. The solid state compnents should be absolutely fine as long as you don't run them out outside their design limits. Typically protection kicks in well before then.

 

[Malik2981]

I wouldn't if mining. Stock would run cooler

 

[blackrook]

It shouldn't hurt to OC a bit, but I wouldn't touch the voltage with an XFX DD 7970. That seems to have caused numerous problems with others trying to OC that model..

Man, apparently I can't even change the voltage. Maybe I should return this. I thought XFX was better.

From what I've seen, it's quite effective at cooling the GPU. It's the VRM's that run hotter with that design. I wouldn't go pumping 1.3v through it like you can with some of the better designs, but simply maxing out the clocks isn't going to create any issues.

With coin mining stability is very important and the card runs 95%+ continuously. "Gaming stable" O/C's might not be "mining stable". The only components that should see significant accelerated wear from mining are the fans. The solid state compnents should be absolutely fine as long as you don't run them out outside their design limits. Typically protection kicks in well before then.

Sorry for being daft, but what are VRMs? I googled it and it says it means Voltage Regulator Module but I don't know what that means for me.

So as I see it I shouldn't be looking to overclock if I intend to mine but max the clocks if I intend to game? Apparently XFX cards don't even hash as well as other manufacturers, so should I try flashing the BIOS?

 

[nwo]

The XFX cards run much hotter than most any other 7970. Personally I would not unless you happen to be in a very cold room.

I can confirm that XFX cards do in fact run hotter than other cards. I have an XFX 7870 and I can't get it below 85*C while mining. My MSI 7870 cruises along mining in the 60s and that's in a much warmer room.

The hotter the card runs, the shorter its lifespan will be. However, if you have the Double D version, all you have to do is go on their site and register your card and you will get a lifetime warranty.

Unless you are gaming on 2-3 monitors, there would be no point in overclocking your card for gaming since most games won't even fully utilize the GPU power you have running at stock settings.

 

[blackrook]

I can confirm that XFX cards do in fact run hotter than other cards. I have an XFX 7870 and I can't get it below 85*C while mining. My MSI 7870 cruises along mining in the 60s and that's in a much warmer room.

The hotter the card runs, the shorter its lifespan will be. However, if you have the Double D version, all you have to do is go on their site and register your card and you will get a lifetime warranty.

Unless you are gaming on 2-3 monitors, there would be no point in overclocking your card for gaming since most games won't even fully utilize the GPU power you have running at stock settings.

Is XFX being shitty something that happened recently with the 7xxx cards? Perhaps I can finagle an upgrade with the lifetime warranty once their stock runs out. Not sure if that's what the lifetime warranty implies.

Would it be worth considering flashing the BIOS? Or is it a hardware issue?

 

[3DVagabond]

Man, apparently I can't even change the voltage. Maybe I should return this. I thought XFX was better.Sorry for being daft, but what are VRMs? I googled it and it says it means Voltage Regulator Module but I don't know what that means for me.

So as I see it I shouldn't be looking to overclock if I intend to mine but max the clocks if I intend to game? Apparently XFX cards don't even hash as well as other manufacturers, so should I try flashing the BIOS?

Don't overreact. XFX cards aren't trash.

Just for reference hardware.fr tests cards inside of a closed case in real world user conditions. Therefore these results can't be directly compared to most sites who use an open test bench.

If you look at the thermal image above of the XFX HD7970 DD you can see the VRM's (voltage regulation modules as you found out) are at 101.6°C the GPU is at 85.6°C.

If you look at the reference cooled version the VRM's are at 81.6°C. The 7970 reference cooler actually does quite a good job, contrary to popular belief. The first things the air from the blower hits are the VRM's. It's just not very quiet (it's actually quite loud) doing it.

That's quite a big difference and not in a good way. ~100°C is as far as you want to push VRM's 24/7. Above ~115°C you risk damaging them or dramatically shortening their life, so ~100°C is high enough. If you increase voltage you will increase temps. As they get hotter it increases resistance which makes them get hotter, which makes resistance increase, which makes them hotter, rinse and repeat...

There shouldn't really be any issue though with just increasing clocks. It might cause a small increase of a couple of degrees in the VRM temps, but still nothing to sweat. XFX 7970's tend to have good silicon and O/C quite well on stock voltages.

You need to consider the price you paid for it. Even before you do any O/C'ing you've got great perf/$.

 

[blackened23]

And a last question. I see please talking about mining "litecoins" with video cards like the 7970. But it seems like it puts even more stress on the card than gaming. Would OC'ing improve performance or make it more unstable? Would it also impact the useful life? Why do nVidia cards never get mentioned for mining purposes?

If you're mining or wanting to overclock: Personally i'd go for a different brand, but that's me. Most folks at HardOCP are adamant in suggesting not using the 7970DD cards at ALL for mining, because they more or less shoot to 90C immediately upon doing so, and it's not hard to imagine the VRM being stressed just as much. From what I remember, a BIOS update was issued for the DD line that uses incredibly aggressive fan settings to offset the poor cooling; if you overclock at all the fan can and will shoot to 80%+ from what I remember in various reviews.

Because of poor design of the DD cards, if you're mining, you'll probably have to underclock and / or undervolt. If you're able to RMA for a different brand within your 30 day window, I really think that's your best bet - if you bought from someone like amazon with hassle free RMAs, that makes the decision all the easier.

The card has price going for it. But you have to consider of all the 7970s, why is that one the cheapest? Why is that one the only one in stock anywhere? The answers are pretty clear IMO, the quality is shoddy. The DD line on the 79xx is literally the only non reference shroud i'm aware of that is actually worse than reference by every metric. Now if you're just gaming, i'd say the DD will be fine. But if you're pushing coins out 24/7 or wanting better clocks? The VRM cooling is poor for overclocking and you'll probably end up underclocking/undervolting when mining, which removes any perceived value IMO.

 

[Stuka87]

If you are within the return period, I would exchange it for another make that has a good cooler. Other makes still have unlocked voltage as well (Such as Sapphire).

 

[nwo]

If you are within the return period, I would exchange it for another make that has a good cooler. Other makes still have unlocked voltage as well (Such as Sapphire).

I ordered a Powercolor 7970 with the reference cooler. At first I hated reference coolers because I have one on my 4870 which runs extremely hot idle, but under load the temps are practically the same and unlike my XFX 7870, the reference cooler seems to make less noise (maybe not at full RPMs... because then it sounds like a vacuum cleaner)

If you are within the return period, I would exchange it for another make that has a good cooler. Other makes still have unlocked voltage as well (Such as Sapphire).

Return a 7970 he got for just a little over 200 bucks!? That's crazy! I would recommend selling it or trading it because there is no way you will be able to find a new 7970 for less than $300.

 

[blackrook]

Don't overreact. XFX cards aren't trash.

Just for reference hardware.fr tests cards inside of a closed case in real world user conditions. Therefore these results can't be directly compared to most sites who use an open test bench.

If you look at the thermal image above of the XFX HD7970 DD you can see the VRM's (voltage regulation modules as you found out) are at 101.6°C the GPU is at 85.6°C.

If you look at the reference cooled version the VRM's are at 81.6°C. The 7970 reference cooler actually does quite a good job, contrary to popular belief. The first things the air from the blower hits are the VRM's. It's just not very quiet (it's actually quite loud) doing it.

That's quite a big difference and not in a good way. ~100°C is as far as you want to push VRM's 24/7. Above ~115°C you risk damaging them or dramatically shortening their life, so ~100°C is high enough. If you increase voltage you will increase temps. As they get hotter it increases resistance which makes them get hotter, which makes resistance increase, which makes them hotter, rinse and repeat...

There shouldn't really be any issue though with just increasing clocks. It might cause a small increase of a couple of degrees in the VRM temps, but still nothing to sweat. XFX 7970's tend to have good silicon and O/C quite well on stock voltages.

You need to consider the price you paid for it. Even before you do any O/C'ing you've got great perf/$.

Wow, that's a pretty stark contrast from just the cooler. Is there another way to measure the temperatures of the VRMs other than thermal imaging?

If you're mining or wanting to overclock: Personally i'd go for a different brand, but that's me. Most folks at HardOCP are adamant in suggesting not using the 7970DD cards at ALL for mining, because they more or less shoot to 90C immediately upon doing so, and it's not hard to imagine the VRM being stressed just as much. From what I remember, a BIOS update was issued for the DD line that uses incredibly aggressive fan settings to offset the poor cooling; if you overclock at all the fan can and will shoot to 80%+ from what I remember in various reviews.

Because of poor design of the DD cards, if you're mining, you'll probably have to underclock and / or undervolt. If you're able to RMA for a different brand within your 30 day window, I really think that's your best bet - if you bought from someone like amazon with hassle free RMAs, that makes the decision all the easier.

The card has price going for it. But you have to consider of all the 7970s, why is that one the cheapest? Why is that one the only one in stock anywhere? The answers are pretty clear IMO, the quality is shoddy. The DD line on the 79xx is literally the only non reference shroud i'm aware of that is actually worse than reference by every metric. Now if you're just gaming, i'd say the DD will be fine. But if you're pushing coins out 24/7 or wanting better clocks? The VRM cooling is poor for overclocking and you'll probably end up underclocking/undervolting when mining, which removes any perceived value IMO.

From the reviews I've seen I can't change the voltage. Maybe it might even be a better idea to stress the card via mining until it bricks so I can try to have XFX replace it with a different card? :awe:

Maybe I should just give up on mining seeing as how I'm already behind the curve with Litecoin and its difficulty is increasing at an insane rate.

 

[blackened23]

Return a 7970 he got for just a little over 200 bucks!? That's crazy! I would recommend selling it or trading it because there is no way you will be able to find a new 7970 for less than $300.

But he wants to mine with it. The 7970DD is more or less worthless for this task, most people at [H] recommend not mining at all with the DD cards because they will crash over time because of the VRM over-heating. And the core shoots to 90C immediately upon mining. So - if he wants to mine he'll most likely underclock/undervolt which makes his 7970 ... not a 7970. This is what happens since AMD is pretty lax with QA at the AIB level.

There's a reason the 7970DD is cheaper than everything else. There's a reason it's the only 7970 in stock. Think about that for a second.

 

[blackened23]

Wow, that's a pretty stark contrast from just the cooler. Is there another way to measure the temperatures of the VRMs other than thermal imaging?From the reviews I've seen I can't change the voltage. Maybe it might even be a better idea to stress the card via mining until it bricks so I can try to have XFX replace it with a different card? :awe:

Well, most AIBs from what i'm aware keep stock of old cards for RMA purposes, but it's always worth a try. I'd bleed that sucker dry until it died, maybe you could get a 280X out of it? Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Face2Face]

Wow, that's a pretty stark contrast from just the cooler. Is there another way to measure the temperatures of the VRMs other than thermal imaging?

You can use GPU-Z or HWInfo

Once you start climbing past 100c your stability could become an issue.

 

[Z15CAM]

I got something that will help you but you gotta wait until I get my XSPC Razor R9 Water Block. You pay me $50 and get a slightly used Arctic Accelero Xtreme III Kit with another $60 worth of EnzoTech Copper Heat Sinks and you pay the shipping.

In the mean time Disable AMD's CCC\Performance\AMD Overdrive and install MSI Afterburner 300 b17 and play with it.

Use these CMD Commads against AB Closed when your up to it:

MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,20 +200mv offset This gets HOT

MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,19 +156mv offset This seems to work BEST

MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,18 +150mv offset
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,17 +144mv offset
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,16 +138mv offset
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,14 +125mv offset
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,12 +113mv offset
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,10 +100mv offset AB's Optimum Setting
MSIAfterburner.exe /wi4,30,8d,0 Return to 0

ROUTE to my MSI Afterburner Directory:

CD C : \ Program Files (x86)\SYSTEM TOOLS\AMD Radeon R9 290X\MSI Afterburner
Obviously the C : \ is incorrect or you get a

NOTES: For every day establish an AB Profile of say +100vm-1170-1500 with a Fan Profile
Enable at startup/minimized.

I also noted that when Fan is set Auto, upon closing AB the GPU Fan shuts down to minimum RPM as compared to when set Manual the Fan stays locked at the applied RPM when AB is closed.

PM me if your interested ;o)