Shutdown over?

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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,849
10,377
136
He forgot not every candidate is as bad as Hillary since she didn't even get the votes that Obama got.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
That's probably true, but I think a nice long hard shutdown will stick in the minds of voters and at least in the near term will generate more enmity for the hard left. Yes Trump could undue a lot of those political "gains" with some tweets but so far it hasn't seemed to hurt his support to voters in swing states at all. Take Ohio, for example, and the funny segment from a few days ago that cnn ran on democrats who voted for Trump in Youngstown.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...at_trump_supporters_think_one_year_later.html

It just goes to show that Dems and MSM are still completely out of touch with the voters who can truly swing a presidential election like Rust Belt voters.



unreal
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,163
9,311
136
Let's keep this simple.

By definition, a continuing resolution means ZERO policy changes, yes?
Was a CR offered, and did Democrats reject it?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
This is the first I’ve seen of speedy in months. I wonder why he and LK ran away?

Speedy?
Yep I'm back, but my free time is limited. Genius and athletic prowess are apparently in high demand with a seemingly endless supply of idiots to pay for it. So suffice it to say I've been focusing my efforts on investments in the past year since sensible dialogue/discussion was lacking here when I left. Simple supply and demand. I pop in from time to time to watch the gnashing of teeth over Trump. I warned you guys that he was going to win but nobody listened and it's a year later and a lot of his promises are coming true, especially the tax cuts which I also told you would be a mugging of the Fed vaults as a modern day Robin Hood. And that's exactly what he did, to hell with deficits.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
That isn't a Rust Belt voter, try again - she's too fancy. Maybe the black girl who is a Trump voting democrat from my previous link can clue you in... I know, it's hard to watch for you. Get ready to lose Ohio in 2020 again unless Dems can magically figure out how to get a message that resonates with real Americans from the midwest.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
That isn't a Rust Belt voter, try again - she's too fancy. Maybe the black girl who is a Trump voting democrat from my previous link can clue you in... I know, it's hard to watch for you. Get ready to lose Ohio in 2020 again unless Dems can magically figure out how to get a message that resonates with real Americans from the midwest.

so people from california arent real americans?
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,447
106
Let's keep this simple.

By definition, a continuing resolution means ZERO policy changes, yes?
Was a CR offered, and did Democrats reject it?
The Republicans maneuvered in a dirty handed way. The Democrats had to reject it. It's bullshit to blame Dems. The House Republicans and Trump ear benders are underhanded, low life scum
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,187
4,871
136
Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth gave a very nice speech about the shutdown and I support her comments 100%.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
No. Electorally they are second class citizens.
Electorally, they are the same as everyone else. Ideologically, they are in a bubble. The majority of Dreamers reside in California, Texas and New York.

For someone in blue collar Ohio or Michigan or Pennsylvania, DACA is not a reason to shut down the government. Trump is playing to them.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,451
15,375
146
Electorally, they are the same as everyone else. Ideologically, they are in a bubble. The majority of Dreamers reside in California, Texas and New York.

For someone in blue collar Ohio or Michigan or Pennsylvania, DACA is not a reason to shut down the government. Trump is playing to them.

Hardly. Slaves used be counted as 3/5 of a person when it came to the census.

For presidential electoral votes, voters in California only get 1/3 the voting power of someone in Wyoming for example. New York, and Texas are treated similarly.

If you believe in equality and 1 person = 1 vote you should find I disturbing that constitutionally rural states are more equal than others thanks to the electoral college.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,325
43,662
136
Let's keep this simple.

By definition, a continuing resolution means ZERO policy changes, yes?
Was a CR offered, and did Democrats reject it?

A shorter CR, to Feb 8, is on the table now. Democrats rejected the longer CR since they think the issue will just get ignored again until the precipice of it's expiration. I find it hard to argue with that logic since ignoring problems is one of the things congress does best. The Dems wanted to keep it to a week or less but that's not going to happen. Congress can technically staple whatever it likes to the CR via amendment I believe.

Ultimately McConnell will have to come up with a way to reasonably satisfy enough Dems (and a few Republicans) that he'll move in immigration in the near future. Dems don't trust him because he's made such promises to people in his own caucus and not delivered. The problem with this style of negotiating is that soon swing votes will not trust him at all if he again fails to make good. He has a host of thorny problems on the near horizon and faces draining credibility.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Hardly. Slaves used be counted as 3/5 of a person when it came to the census.

For presidential electoral votes, voters in California only get 1/3 the voting power of someone in Wyoming for example. New York, and Texas are treated similarly.

If you believe in equality and 1 person = 1 vote you should find I disturbing that constitutionally rural states are more equal than others thanks to the electoral college.
We've gone in this circle before, that is a feature not a bug.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,451
15,375
146
We've gone in this circle before, that is a feature not a bug.
We have, which is why I corrected your comment. We are not treated the same, as the whole point of the electoral college was to allow certain votes to count over others,(whites over slaves in the south, the electoral college over everyone, low population states over large).

While you may like the outcome of the electoral college you don’t get to say we are treated the same.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
We've gone in this circle before, that is a feature not a bug.
I would say that it is an extremely naive view. I doubt the forefathers really envisioned this issue or that for political gain large states would be split into smaller ones. In addition I doubt the forefathers assumed we would reach 50 states. They started with just 13 and much of the US at the time belonged to France and to natives or was unknown, unexplored. There was no idea at the time that the Louisiana purchase and the widespread extermination of natives was going to happen.

People have this crazy idea that the US Constitution is somehow special or the best in the world. Is it really ? It seems to me extremely fragile because of the sheer amount of interpretation people make about what a bunch of guys thought hundreds of years ago and the absolutist stances people take in those interpretations.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I would say that it is an extremely naive view. I doubt the forefathers really envisioned this issue or that for political gain large states would be split into smaller ones. In addition I doubt the forefathers assumed we would reach 50 states. They started with just 13 and much of the US at the time belonged to France and to natives or was unknown, unexplored. There was no idea at the time that the Louisiana purchase and the widespread extermination of natives was going to happen.

People have this crazy idea that the US Constitution is somehow special or the best in the world. Is it really ? It seems to me extremely fragile because of the sheer amount of interpretation people make about what a bunch of guys thought hundreds of years ago and the absolutist stances people take in those interpretations.
I find the Constitution incredibly adaptive and very special. People tend to lament our government only when it doesn't produce their preferred outcome.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
So Mitch "I stole the supreme court" McConnel is now offering Democrats his promise to one day allow DACA to be spoken of in the senate in order to turn the government back on?


If they fall for this crap I will be very disappointed. They need to keep it shut down until they get DACA. If that means it stays shut down until midterms then so be it. McConnel will be out of a job soon enough.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,082
19,787
146
So Mitch "I stole the supreme court" McConnel is now offering Democrats his promise to one day allow DACA to be spoken of in the senate in order to turn the government back on?


If they fall for this crap I will be very disappointed. They need to keep it shut down until they get DACA. If that means it stays shut down until midterms then so be it. McConnel will be out of a job soon enough.
It's more about waffling in the White House, the art of the deal so to speak.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,635
30,909
146
In those cases that person doing the negotiating actually knows what they want and when to close the deal. Does not seem to be the case over at the WH...

To be fair, Trump always knew what he wanted as a failed businessman: other people's money with no real consequences for himself.

He's only ever operated as a corporate thief. Running successful business never were his forte. Intentionally starting these scams over and over again, as a simple means to profit off of other investors and federal recompense through bankruptcy is his skill. He promised to run this country like he runs his "businesses," and that is one thing we can trust him on.

Of course, everyone with continued access to their own brains knew this before the elections and voted accordingly. Those that refused to listen to their own last shreds of remaining common sense voted for this thief. They are getting what they deserve, but of course now the rest of us have to live with their life failures as well.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
So Mitch "I stole the supreme court" McConnel is now offering Democrats his promise to one day allow DACA to be spoken of in the senate in order to turn the government back on?


If they fall for this crap I will be very disappointed. They need to keep it shut down until they get DACA. If that means it stays shut down until midterms then so be it. McConnel will be out of a job soon enough.

Anyone honestly considering the relative positions of both sides will realize the Dems have the far weaker hand of the two. Pretty much every pre-agreement outcome is bad for the Dems - federal workers in MD and VA represented by Dem Senators will be without pay and extremely pissed, DACA deportations wouldn't be stopped (as I said ICE employees are exempt from furlough), and a GOP president in charge of exactly how maximum pain will be doled out and you can be pretty sure those who will get the pain are dear to Democrat hearts. Plus as others have stated the polls say voters are prioritizing government being open over DACA resolution. In poker terms the Democrats are trying to draw to an inside straight here and are highly likely to come out of this situation worse off.
 
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