The one thing that did work to cut illegal immigration was the housing bubble collapse. When the jobs dried up, lots of illegal immigrants packed up and went home. So we know that denying jobs to illegal immigrants is an effective method of reducing illegal immigration. Yet nailing employers' asses to the wall never quite makes it into law or policy. I wonder why that is?
Such "caving" is highly speculative at this point, isn't it?
Of course it is, so is the 2018 elections. We are talking about 'what ifs..' here.
If they cave on DACA, and/or military/domestic parity, how will it effect them in the 2018 election.
The GOP base wants the dreamers deported and anyone who would consider voting Republican wouldn't give the dreamers a second thought. Screwing the dreamers wouldn't hurt the GOP in the slightest. There is no better bargaining chip than an issue your opponents care about passionately but for which you don't give a flip. Expect the dreamer issue to linger through the 2018 elections.Failure to protect the Dreamers would likely have a much stronger impact on the GOP than the Dems. I mean, who's the asshole if it's not accomplished?
The GOP will ultimately have to release the hostages after they extract what ransom they can or suffer the consequences. This weekend shutdown was just a shot across the bow from the Dems.
The GOP base wants the dreamers deported and anyone who would consider voting Republican wouldn't give the dreamers a second thought. Screwing the dreamers wouldn't hurt the GOP in the slightest. There is no better bargaining chip than an issue your opponents care about passionately but for which you don't give a flip. Expect the dreamer issue to linger through the 2018 elections.
Personally, I'm in favor of both the dreamers being protected and the wall. Close the door, but do what we can to assimilate those here. Problem with supporting that is Republicans got burned before in the 80s. They were promised something similar.
I don't understand why opposing the wall is so important to Democrats...so important that that apparently prefer to have DACA fail rather than giving Trump any semblance of victory on this particular campaign promise. The extreme sides from both parties are doing their best to f*ck this up.Personally, I'm in favor of both the dreamers being protected and the wall. Close the door, but do what we can to assimilate those here. Problem with supporting that is Republicans got burned before in the 80s. They were promised something similar.
And Democrats did nothing the 2 years they had when in control of Congress and the Presidency. Their claim to piety is false as well.Their claim to piety is false. The GOP has not made any honest effort to "correct" the claimed deficiencies over the intervening 30 years. They're not making one now. What did they do about it during the Bush years when illegal immigration was strongest? Nothing. The GOP intends to milk the issue for nativist votes & cheap labor as long as they possibly can. They want to keep it nicely fucked up so that they can keep people nicely riled up & irrational.
And Democrats did nothing the 2 years they had when in control of Congress and the Presidency. Their claim to piety is false as well.
Uhmm, they tried to pass immigration reform but Republicans filibustered it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/judicial-watch-fbi-cant-trusted-012856828.htmlI don't understand why opposing the wall is so important to Democrats...so important that that apparently prefer to have DACA fail rather than giving Trump any semblance of victory on this particular campaign promise. The extreme sides from both parties are doing their best to f*ck this up.
Details, details... They only had a filibuster proof majority while Ted Kennedy was alive, anyway, not two years.
Details, details... They only had a filibuster proof majority while Ted Kennedy was alive, anyway, not two years.
Republicans filibustered it because they were unwilling (and still are) to take action on immigration reform or any other immigration bill until America's borders are secured. If Democrats had included a legitimate border security compromise, the DREAM Act would have passed.Uhmm, they tried to pass immigration reform but Republicans filibustered it.
Why the opposition? The wall is a ridiculous waste of 24 billion USD that as per some studies would slow the transition across the US border of most migrants by 5-10 seconds at maximum. Not to discuss the logistic and legal issues associated, the historical evidence of how walls have worked out in the past when used for this type of issue, the fact that the money could be used in other ways for other more meaningful things, and the fact that there isnt even a basic definition of what type of wall is proposed (we've heard everything from a wall only in philosophy and ideology to a solar paneled layered 100 meter thing spanning from California to Texas)I don't understand why opposing the wall is so important to Democrats...so important that that apparently prefer to have DACA fail rather than giving Trump any semblance of victory on this particular campaign promise. The extreme sides from both parties are doing their best to f*ck this up.
Republicans filibustered it because they were unwilling (and still are) to take action on immigration reform or any other immigration bill until America's borders are secured. If Democrats included a border security compromise, the DREAM Act would have passed.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018...eamer-demand-with-budget-deal-in-reach-366992
So it looks like the dirty Dems are caving on DACA because they don't want to shake the markets (read: piss off their donors).
Also military spending looking to increase even more than what Donnie asked for. Craven. Pathetic.
Republicans filibustered it because they were unwilling (and still are) to take action on immigration reform or any other immigration bill until America's borders are secured. If Democrats included a border security compromise, the DREAM Act would have passed.
Conservatives keep demanding border security and democrats keep giving it to them. Yet Republicans will never sign on the dotted line.
At a certain point one must ponder why.
There will be no productive discussion on DACA if the wall is not part of it. Democrats need to give him a bone here or they're wasting their breath trying to get this deal done. It's just that simple.Why the opposition? The wall is a ridiculous waste of 24 billion USD that as per some studies would slow the transition across the US border of most migrants by 5-10 seconds at maximum. Not to discuss the logistic and legal issues associated, the historical evidence of how walls have worked out in the past when used for this type of issue, the fact that the money could be used in other ways for other more meaningful things, and the fact that there isnt even a basic definition of what type of wall is proposed (we've heard everything from a wall only in philosophy and ideology to a solar paneled layered 100 meter thing spanning from California to Texas)
Currently people tunnel under walls, climb walls, are smuggled in via 18 wheeler trailers or simply come over to visit and just stay.
If you want to have an immigration discussion have an immigration discussion but still least start the discussion with your feet standing in reality.
There will be no productive discussion on DACA if the wall is not part of it. Democrats need to give him a bone here or they're wasting their breath trying to get this deal done. It's just that simple.
fskimospy and I were talking about the filibuster that occurred when Democrats had control of the House and Senate under Obama for 2 years.