This is how elementary school kids view negotiations. This isn't about equity of outcomes, this is about power.So can you explain where the Republican give is? They have already said they want to legalize DACA people, so that’s not giving anything.
Like I said we have one thing both parties want and two things only republicans want. I agree with you that deals require give and take, so as soon as republicans give something I’m interested to revisit. As it stands it’s not a serious proposal.
This is how elementary school kids view negotiations. This isn't about equity of outcomes, this is about power.
Democrats are the minority party and have nothing of value to offer.
They can take the deal or they can shut down the government again over illegal immigrants. The choice seems pretty obvious to me.
So can you explain where the Republican give is? They have already said they want to legalize DACA people, so that’s not giving anything.
Like I said we have one thing both parties want and two things only republicans want. I agree with you that deals require give and take, so as soon as republicans give something I’m interested to revisit. As it stands it’s not a serious proposal.
Democrats are the minority party and have nothing of value to offer.
What you just said is what I've been saying through out this entire thread. The Republicans are in charge and the Republicans are 100% responsible for the shutdown. The Republicans chose to shut down the government because they saw political advantage in doing so. All you need to know to understand the level of game playing and depravity in the Republican leadership is to look at how Mitch McConnell killed the bill to pay the troops during the shutdown. Shameful.This is how elementary school kids view negotiations. This isn't about equity of outcomes, this is about power.
Democrats are the minority party and have nothing of value to offer.
They can take the deal or they can shut down the government again over illegal immigrants. The choice seems pretty obvious to me.
DACA is a give on the Republican side, even if a small one. Democrats previously said they wanted to close the anchor baby loophole. How the times have changed. Now it's full-fledged identity politics. to you, what is a solution that looks like a compromise between the two?
Democrats claiming DACA is a Republican supported thing... after Democrats claimed to shut down the government over it.
The Republicans chose to shut down the government. It was a political stunt for them.Democrats claiming DACA is a Republican supported thing... after Democrats claimed to shut down the government over it.
Democrats claiming DACA is a Republican supported thing... after Democrats claimed to shut down the government over it.
Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan forced the shutdown. The Dems were bystanders.It's a give as it sure as hell wasn't on the Republican budget bill before. You "won" it by forcing a shutdown.
Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan forced the shutdown. The Dems were bystanders.
Straight from the mouths of... the elderly.
"He gave them everything"
"He killed the country".
The base probably wants to string Trump up for offering DACA. Granted, ALL their info is from Fox News.
Mitch shut it down beyond a shadow of a doubt.Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan forced the shutdown
They tried and were gunned down by Mitch so lets lay blame at the feet of the right person.The Dems were bystanders.
Both congressional republicans and Trump are on the record personally supporting permanently protecting those covered by DACA. It is not a give, as a give is something you DON’T want.
I am not about to devise an immigration bill.
I mean you know that the entire Republican leadership has publicly stated their support for permanent protections for DACA people, right?
Mitch McConnell can, and has, jettisoned the 60 vote rule when he finds it convenient. The Republicans can't hide behind the filibuster anymore, it's dead.When did Democrats lose their seats in Congress? They have 49 Senate votes that aren't Republican. Would you care to explain to us what their no votes resulted in, besides the shutdown?
Mitch McConnell can, and has, jettisoned the 60 vote rule when he finds it convenient. The Republicans can't hide behind the filibuster anymore, it's dead.
Trump takes every angle on everything. Congressional Republicans do not all support DACA. Republican base support is in support (roughly 2/3rds), however, a lot of that is just a lukewarm take on it and many of those would not want a shut down over it.
I guess there is no reason for people to fret about the three week negotiation phase then. Nobody would need to be afraid of the turtle breaking the promise.
Trump is expanding DACA to provide paths to citizenship for 1.8M people. He is asking for stronger controls and the symbolic victory of his wall in return. That is a give and a take. You were arguing for equity. I was saying the minority party gets less in the deal because, well, they are the minority party.No, this is how a rational adult evaluates deals. The Republicans are holding a policy choice they support hostage in order to extract additional concessions, banking on the fact that Democrats care more about DACA than they do.
The smart move is to reject their lopsided deal and leave the republicans to either get nothing that they want or to come back with a more realistic proposal. You don’t support hostage taking because it just encourages more of it.
It’s ironic that you said deals require give and take and then immediately follow that up with saying republicans shouldn’t give anything. That deal goes straight to the trash.
We recognize the same thing but from different perspectives. The tactics may be shameful, but it is forcing a necessary and long overdue conversation on immigration.What you just said is what I've been saying through out this entire thread. The Republicans are in charge and the Republicans are 100% responsible for the shutdown. The Republicans chose to shut down the government because they saw political advantage in doing so. All you need to know to understand the level of game playing and depravity in the Republican leadership is to look at how Mitch McConnell killed the bill to pay the troops during the shutdown. Shameful.
The Republicans have been hiding from that conversation for over a decade.We recognize the same thing but from different perspectives. The tactics may be shameful, but it is forcing a necessary and long overdue conversation on immigration.
Trump takes every angle on everything. Congressional Republicans do not all support DACA. Republican base support is in support (roughly 2/3rds), however, a lot of that is just a lukewarm take on it and many of those would not want a shut down over it.
I guess there is no reason for people to fret about the three week negotiation phase then. Nobody would need to be afraid of the turtle breaking the promise.
You have to look at the polls. People support DACA in principle but not as a condition of funding the government.I doubt that Repub voters want a shutdown to deny DACA, either, so it comes right back on the GOP.
I mean, how badly do their voters want to see these people get screwed? Not very badly at all.