Originally posted by: jhu
Speaking of Volkswagen, I was flipping through my owner's manual and came upon something interesting: they recommend turning the engine off at long stop lights! I've never seen a manufacturer recommend turning off the engine on the road before.
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
You only inflate truck retreads in a cage?
Okay if you say so, but I will not follow that rule.
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Auto manufacturers who ship their vehicles overseas routinely OVER-INFLATE their tires up to 80PSI (on a 44psi tire for example) in order to prevent the car from sitting on its rims by the time it arrives at its destination.
Why not just use nitrogen? My tires came filled with nitrogen when I bought the car and the pressure never drops. Almost a year later and they haven't lost any pressure.
Why take the time to pump them way up?
/facepalm.
Nitrogen will still leak out of tyres.
Sure it will, no one said it wouldn't, but replacing the 21% oxygen with Nitrogen's fatter molecule should slow down the leakage. I've never had tires maintain their pressure this long before.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough? I agree - If the coasting distance in neutral >> coasting distance in gear, then you can save gas using neutral. An alternative would be if the manufacturer has the cut in for the injectors set quite high.
It will probably be less of a problem in the future, manufacturers are implementing systems which partially open the throttle in coasting situations (i.e. when the driver has the throttle shut) to reduce pumping losses.
You're grasping at pennies here. Totally not worth the effort at all.
Originally posted by: SSSnail
17. Always go down hill.
18. Attach boom to car, use a sail.
19. Your car does not use any fuel when it's OFF :light:
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..
I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.
Or maybe it's because the manufacturers don't want the passengers to be subjected to additional road noise and harsher bumps? Just because a manufacturer doesn't intend something, it doesn't mean that there is anything particularly wrong with it. There are pluses and minuses of running higher tire pressures, I have weighed them and I've chosen to raise the tire pressure because in my case, the pluses outweigh the minuses. It's different for every car and raising the tire pressure can in fact make the car behave differently and in some cases it's worse and others it's better.
Fact is, before I raised the tire pressure, the edges of the tires were wearing down more, now that I have them raised to the pressures they're at, they're now wearing perfectly even, not in the middle but perfectly even. Every car is different, I'm not telling you to do anything, I'm just letting you know that you can't make broad declarations that one should not raise their tire pressure to the sidewall rating just because you haven't bothered to try for yourself and see the results for yourself. Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern. Now with radial tires, overinflation isn't too much of a concern and uneven wear from overinflation is far less dramatic than it was with the bias plys. Tire PSI ratings are mostly bullshit if you're willing to learn and understand how your car behaves after the modifications and make adjustments here and there.
With that aside..........
YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
That's great that your tires wear evenly but that isn't the case for everyone. I see many many vehicles that have their tires at door jam inflation and still see uneven wear, indicating that it's underinflated. On the Volvo S60, I keep the tires at 55psi cold even though the tires are rated 51psi cold and I can't tell you how amazed I am to see the tires wear so perfectly even. As for the rims, it was just an example and not all cars with large rims have equally sized brakes..
I just looked up the recommended tire pressures for the volvo S60, they recommend a whopping 39 psi. 55 psi is ridiculous. You're going to end up with worse handling because the tire is hard as a rock and will have a lousy contact patch. On top of that the ride quality will suffer because the tire won't flex like the manufacturer intended. Tires act as part of your suspension, if they can't flex and absorb impact like they are supposed to your car isn't running as the designers and engineers intended it to.
Or maybe it's because the manufacturers don't want the passengers to be subjected to additional road noise and harsher bumps? Just because a manufacturer doesn't intend something, it doesn't mean that there is anything particularly wrong with it. There are pluses and minuses of running higher tire pressures, I have weighed them and I've chosen to raise the tire pressure because in my case, the pluses outweigh the minuses. It's different for every car and raising the tire pressure can in fact make the car behave differently and in some cases it's worse and others it's better.
Fact is, before I raised the tire pressure, the edges of the tires were wearing down more, now that I have them raised to the pressures they're at, they're now wearing perfectly even, not in the middle but perfectly even. Every car is different, I'm not telling you to do anything, I'm just letting you know that you can't make broad declarations that one should not raise their tire pressure to the sidewall rating just because you haven't bothered to try for yourself and see the results for yourself. Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern. Now with radial tires, overinflation isn't too much of a concern and uneven wear from overinflation is far less dramatic than it was with the bias plys. Tire PSI ratings are mostly bullshit if you're willing to learn and understand how your car behaves after the modifications and make adjustments here and there.
With that aside..........
YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
:roll: I'm reasonably sure that automobile manufacturers these days have moved beyond the 1970s as far as engineering of their cars and the requirements of the tires they ride on.
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern.
Disadvantages of Overinflation
An overinflated tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear. Higher inflated tires cannot isolate road irregularities as well causing the vehicle to ride harsher and transmit more noise into its interior.
Oh PLEASE save it! Fuel economy didn't increase from the model T to the 1950s and decreased til the 70s. Like another poster said, they put their priorities elsewhere with fuel economy at the bottom. What does that mean? It means that manufacturers haven't taken the steps to help people get better fuel economy while sacrificing comfort and one of those is raising the tire pressure.Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
Yes, and the massive increase in vehicle weight, large amounts of emissions controls, and the fact that we drive at significantly higher speeds than people used to has nothing to do with fuel economy.
You're assuming that "the people who study this stuff for years" actually agree with you. You state your opinions and then make the statement that I'm saying experts don't know what they're talking about in the same sentence, in a sense saying that those experts are claiming what you're claiming! The risks of underinflation is far greater than overinflation, so I disagree with you in thinking that it's less safe to drive at higher infaltion than lower or what the manufacturer specifies.YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
99% of the time that's true, however that 1% can be a doozy. While hitting a nail on a normal tire may just cause a leak an over inflated tire may rupture. In a panic situation your handling will be compromised because the contact patch has been reduced. If your tire hits something (curb, really bad expansion joint, rock, etc) it won't flex, increasing the likliehood that you could have a rupture.
I'm sorry but you don't know more about this stuff than the people that have studied and worked at it for years. They don't even recommend this kind of stuff for cars that are designed to get high mileage because it's dangerous.
Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern.
I'd think that car manufacturers are aware of the kind of tires they use on their vehicles. Also, if this was free fuel economy with no risk don't you think that they'd be doing it? It would let them advertise better mileage for their cars to help them sell. There's a reason why they chose not to do it.
If you don't believe me here's a blurb from the tire rack...
Disadvantages of Overinflation
An overinflated tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear. Higher inflated tires cannot isolate road irregularities as well causing the vehicle to ride harsher and transmit more noise into its interior.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
Yes, and the massive increase in vehicle weight, large amounts of emissions controls, and the fact that we drive at significantly higher speeds than people used to has nothing to do with fuel economy.
Oh PLEASE save it! Fuel economy didn't increase from the model T to the 1950s and decreased til the 70s. Like another poster said, they put their priorities elsewhere with fuel economy at the bottom. What does that mean? It means that manufacturers haven't taken the steps to help people get better fuel economy while sacrificing comfort and one of those is raising the tire pressure.
You're assuming that "the people who study this stuff for years" actually agree with you. You state your opinions and then make the statement that I'm saying experts don't know what they're talking about in the same sentence, in a sense saying that those experts are claiming what you're claiming! The risks of underinflation is far greater than overinflation, so I disagree with you in thinking that it's less safe to drive at higher infaltion than lower or what the manufacturer specifies.YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
99% of the time that's true, however that 1% can be a doozy. While hitting a nail on a normal tire may just cause a leak an over inflated tire may rupture. In a panic situation your handling will be compromised because the contact patch has been reduced. If your tire hits something (curb, really bad expansion joint, rock, etc) it won't flex, increasing the likliehood that you could have a rupture.
I'm sorry but you don't know more about this stuff than the people that have studied and worked at it for years. They don't even recommend this kind of stuff for cars that are designed to get high mileage because it's dangerous.
Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern.
I'd think that car manufacturers are aware of the kind of tires they use on their vehicles. Also, if this was free fuel economy with no risk don't you think that they'd be doing it? It would let them advertise better mileage for their cars to help them sell. There's a reason why they chose not to do it.
If you don't believe me here's a blurb from the tire rack...
Disadvantages of Overinflation
An overinflated tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear. Higher inflated tires cannot isolate road irregularities as well causing the vehicle to ride harsher and transmit more noise into its interior.
Over inflation is relative, and there are various people who have their own definitions of overinflation. With Tires puncturing, I'm far more worried about my rims getting destroyed than my tires getting destroyed which is what would happen if you had your tires normally inflated and you crashed into a curb at 30mph. A tire blowout is a tire blowout and you people don't seem to understand this which is why you're so worried about an OVERinflated tire and not so much about an UNDERinflated tire. Driving on a "properly" inflated tire at or slightly below the door jam psi for long drives or at high speed on a hot day is far less safe than driving that same tire at the sidewall PSI rating yet people do this every day. Haven't you noticed more tire blowouts on hot days in the summer than in the winter? (When I mean hot, I mean 100F+) Tires with higher PSI flex a lot less which means a rougher, less forgiving ride but with that less flexing means less heat which means a greatly reduced risk of a blowout due to heat.
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
I dont know where you learned physics:
increased pressure + friction = lots of heat
Fact is, emissions equipment isn't that big of a deal in terms of affecting fuel economy. Aerodynamics play a bigger role in fuel economy than emissions equipment, something that SUVs dont' excell at. Why else would a 3600LB+ vehicle get 38mpg on the highway unless it was aerodynamic. (Some guy inflated the tires of a Buick Lesabre to like 45psi and then drove on the highway for a long distance and averaged 38mpg, it was either on gassavers or ecomodder forum)Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: fleabag
You're right, that's why average fuel economy is so much better.....oh wait! Average fuel economy has only improved 3mpg since the introduction of the model T and even that was directly attributed to the CAFE requirements.. PSI suggestions and the whole "wearing down the middle" is stuff that mostly pertains to bias ply tires, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't suggest a PSI rating themselves.
Yes, and the massive increase in vehicle weight, large amounts of emissions controls, and the fact that we drive at significantly higher speeds than people used to has nothing to do with fuel economy.
Oh PLEASE save it! Fuel economy didn't increase from the model T to the 1950s and decreased til the 70s. Like another poster said, they put their priorities elsewhere with fuel economy at the bottom. What does that mean? It means that manufacturers haven't taken the steps to help people get better fuel economy while sacrificing comfort and one of those is raising the tire pressure.
I think your sarcasm-o-meter is busted. I was saying that we're getting worse fuel economy because our priorities are for cars that can travel at higher speeds, not cause ridiculous amounts of smog, and be more comfortable/safer (which accounts for the largest amount of that weight increase).
You're assuming that "the people who study this stuff for years" actually agree with you. You state your opinions and then make the statement that I'm saying experts don't know what they're talking about in the same sentence, in a sense saying that those experts are claiming what you're claiming! The risks of underinflation is far greater than overinflation, so I disagree with you in thinking that it's less safe to drive at higher infaltion than lower or what the manufacturer specifies.YOUR TIRES AREN'T GOING TO EXPLODE CAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AT 100PSI ON A 44psi tire. The only exception to this is if you've got an old beat up tire that shouldn't even be driven on in the first place!
99% of the time that's true, however that 1% can be a doozy. While hitting a nail on a normal tire may just cause a leak an over inflated tire may rupture. In a panic situation your handling will be compromised because the contact patch has been reduced. If your tire hits something (curb, really bad expansion joint, rock, etc) it won't flex, increasing the likliehood that you could have a rupture.
I'm sorry but you don't know more about this stuff than the people that have studied and worked at it for years. They don't even recommend this kind of stuff for cars that are designed to get high mileage because it's dangerous.
The car manufacturer is choosing what ever tire pressure they feel like, not the tire manufacturer. You are misunderstanding what I'm saying; I'm not saying they don't test their configurations (though Ford obviously didn't do enough of it!), I'm saying that they obviously do calculations and tests and then try to set their tire pressure to be within those requirements. This is why you'd rarely see a car with the tire pressure at 20psi, because the tires would overheat far too much for most vehicles and would be far too underinflated for the given load. If their priority was top fuel economy with disregard to nearly everything else, what makes you think they wouldn't just state "sidewall max cold"? Go read my earlier lengthy post where it is clearly stated that speed ratings, weight and basically all the tires ratings aren't valid unless the tire is inflated to the sidewall rating.. A tire at 40psi is obviously going to be more of a rough ride than 30 psi, there is no disputing that, what is in dispute is that you CANNOT have your tires at the sidewall inflation rating and NOT be safe, and NOT risk a blowout, I believe that is what this argument is about and should only be about because nothing else have I disputed....yet.You seem to forget that 'the people who study this stuff for years' are writing the manufacturer's recommendations and the recommendations on the side walls. They aren't recommending anywhere near the amount of inflation that you are.
You're wrong, if they wanted a "boost in fuel economy" with total disregard to everything else, they'd do the following: Raise tire pressure and adjust suspension accordingly, put taller transmissions in their vehicles, adjust valve timing so that its peak power is at around like 1500-2500rpm, use aerodynamic undersiding, remove excess accessories like A/C, sound deadening and other heavy things in the car, use small alloy wheels, lower displacement engines, and a few other things that I can't think of. No these things aren't "free" like you said, but they wouldn't put an additional cost like direct injection, diesel, hybrid or a turbo would cost, it'd be the same cost per the car, difference would be in that they'd have to do some redesigning and order different but NOT more expensive parts. Why do they not just flat out do this? Well some have, like the Cobalt XFE which basically just has a taller transmission, THATS it. As for tire pressure, manufacturers don't want their customers to flee because their cars feel like driving trucks or driving a vehicle that makes your teeth rattle. Raising tire pressure CAN make a vehicle feel more rough and that's certainly enough to deter a potential buyer! As for those other ideas, they're slowly implementing them and you'll start to see cars "magically" get better mileage as the new CAFE standards are put in place.Also you're forgetting one important thing, those tire pressure guides and "listening to the manufacturer" for PSI ratings were suggestions from yesteryear where people were driving on bias plys and if you weren't at the right pressure, overinflation was a serious concern.
I'd think that car manufacturers are aware of the kind of tires they use on their vehicles. Also, if this was free fuel economy with no risk don't you think that they'd be doing it? It would let them advertise better mileage for their cars to help them sell. There's a reason why they chose not to do it.
If you don't believe me here's a blurb from the tire rack...
Disadvantages of Overinflation
An overinflated tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when encountering potholes or debris in the road, as well as experience irregular tread wear. Higher inflated tires cannot isolate road irregularities as well causing the vehicle to ride harsher and transmit more noise into its interior.
Over inflation is relative, and there are various people who have their own definitions of overinflation. With Tires puncturing, I'm far more worried about my rims getting destroyed than my tires getting destroyed which is what would happen if you had your tires normally inflated and you crashed into a curb at 30mph. A tire blowout is a tire blowout and you people don't seem to understand this which is why you're so worried about an OVERinflated tire and not so much about an UNDERinflated tire. Driving on a "properly" inflated tire at or slightly below the door jam psi for long drives or at high speed on a hot day is far less safe than driving that same tire at the sidewall PSI rating yet people do this every day. Haven't you noticed more tire blowouts on hot days in the summer than in the winter? (When I mean hot, I mean 100F+) Tires with higher PSI flex a lot less which means a rougher, less forgiving ride but with that less flexing means less heat which means a greatly reduced risk of a blowout due to heat.
You honestly think that car and tire manufacturers don't realize that tires heat up? Don't you think that if their 'proper' tire pressure was causing blowouts due to heat they would increase the tire pressure? Apparently they learn nothing from that GM test track out here in Arizona. The recommended tire pressure takes temperature into account.
I'll state again that if they could get a free and perfectly safe boost in mileage just by increasing the recommended tire pressure the car makers would. They spend millions on research trying get improved mileage. If it was as simple as just increasing the tire pressure they would have already done it. No car maker does, yet you are claiming to know more than their millions of dollars of research and decades of experience.
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
I dont know where you learned physics:
increased pressure + friction = lots of heat
Oh wow.... You're like those idiots who think that two cars going 30mph crashing into each other is twice as bad as one car going 30mph into a wall.....
Originally posted by: fleabag
You honestly think that car and tire manufacturers don't realize that tires heat up? Don't you think that if their 'proper' tire pressure was causing blowouts due to heat they would increase the tire pressure? Apparently they learn nothing from that GM test track out here in Arizona. The recommended tire pressure takes temperature into account.
I'll state again that if they could get a free and perfectly safe boost in mileage just by increasing the recommended tire pressure the car makers would. They spend millions on research trying get improved mileage. If it was as simple as just increasing the tire pressure they would have already done it. No car maker does, yet you are claiming to know more than their millions of dollars of research and decades of experience.
You're wrong, if they wanted a "boost in fuel economy" with total disregard to everything else, they'd do the following: Raise tire pressure and adjust suspension accordingly, put taller transmissions in their vehicles, adjust valve timing so that its peak power is at around like 1500-2500rpm, use aerodynamic undersiding, remove excess accessories like A/C, sound deadening and other heavy things in the car, use small alloy wheels, lower displacement engines, and a few other things that I can't think of. No these things aren't "free" like you said, but they wouldn't put an additional cost like direct injection, diesel, hybrid or a turbo would cost, it'd be the same cost per the car, difference would be in that they'd have to do some redesigning and order different but NOT more expensive parts. Why do they not just flat out do this? Well some have, like the Cobalt XFE which basically just has a taller transmission, THATS it. As for tire pressure, manufacturers don't want their customers to flee because their cars feel like driving trucks or driving a vehicle that makes your teeth rattle. Raising tire pressure CAN make a vehicle feel more rough and that's certainly enough to deter a potential buyer! As for those other ideas, they're slowly implementing them and you'll start to see cars "magically" get better mileage as the new CAFE standards are put in place.
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: fleabag
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
I dont know where you learned physics:
increased pressure + friction = lots of heat
Oh wow.... You're like those idiots who think that two cars going 30mph crashing into each other is twice as bad as one car going 30mph into a wall.....
It depends if the collision is elastic or inelastic
AGAIN, you and that other guy are doing that thing where I say one thing, you make your own claim and then say that I'm disregarding what engineers know, stating that I know more than they do and that simply ISN'T THE CASE. There is practically nothing in my posts that are saying that engineers don't know what they're doing. Instead I'm saying, this is what they can do, and they're simply not doing it for WHAT EVER REASON whether it be money, motivation, the balancing of other needs, etc. You obviously don't see fuel economy as a priority otherwise my statements wouldn't seem so outlandish. Go spend some time on some hypermiling websites and you'll either quickly realize that I know exactly what I'm talking about or you'll just disregard everything stating that these guys are liars. If you choose the latter, then all I can say is go pound sand, you've added nothing to this discussion.Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: fleabag
You honestly think that car and tire manufacturers don't realize that tires heat up? Don't you think that if their 'proper' tire pressure was causing blowouts due to heat they would increase the tire pressure? Apparently they learn nothing from that GM test track out here in Arizona. The recommended tire pressure takes temperature into account.
I'll state again that if they could get a free and perfectly safe boost in mileage just by increasing the recommended tire pressure the car makers would. They spend millions on research trying get improved mileage. If it was as simple as just increasing the tire pressure they would have already done it. No car maker does, yet you are claiming to know more than their millions of dollars of research and decades of experience.
You're wrong, if they wanted a "boost in fuel economy" with total disregard to everything else, they'd do the following: Raise tire pressure and adjust suspension accordingly, put taller transmissions in their vehicles, adjust valve timing so that its peak power is at around like 1500-2500rpm, use aerodynamic undersiding, remove excess accessories like A/C, sound deadening and other heavy things in the car, use small alloy wheels, lower displacement engines, and a few other things that I can't think of. No these things aren't "free" like you said, but they wouldn't put an additional cost like direct injection, diesel, hybrid or a turbo would cost, it'd be the same cost per the car, difference would be in that they'd have to do some redesigning and order different but NOT more expensive parts. Why do they not just flat out do this? Well some have, like the Cobalt XFE which basically just has a taller transmission, THATS it. As for tire pressure, manufacturers don't want their customers to flee because their cars feel like driving trucks or driving a vehicle that makes your teeth rattle. Raising tire pressure CAN make a vehicle feel more rough and that's certainly enough to deter a potential buyer! As for those other ideas, they're slowly implementing them and you'll start to see cars "magically" get better mileage as the new CAFE standards are put in place.
Well apparently you know more than any engineering team for any automaker, perhaps you should start your own car company. Then you could build a 1000lb tin can that gets a 5 star crash test rating in 1970 with no AC, radio, passenger seats, sound deadening, 11 inch wheels inflated to 200 PSI and no airbags. Im sure it'll fly off the lots
Originally posted by: fleabag
AGAIN, you and that other guy are doing that thing where I say one thing, you make your own claim and then say that I'm disregarding what engineers know, stating that I know more than they do and that simply ISN'T THE CASE. There is practically nothing in my posts that are saying that engineers don't know what they're doing. Instead I'm saying, this is what they can do, and they're simply not doing it for WHAT EVER REASON whether it be money, motivation, the balancing of other needs, etc. You obviously don't see fuel economy as a priority otherwise my statements wouldn't seem so outlandish. Go spend some time on some hypermiling websites and you'll either quickly realize that I know exactly what I'm talking about or you'll just disregard everything stating that these guys are liars. If you choose the latter, then all I can say is go pound sand, you've added nothing to this discussion.Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: fleabag
You honestly think that car and tire manufacturers don't realize that tires heat up? Don't you think that if their 'proper' tire pressure was causing blowouts due to heat they would increase the tire pressure? Apparently they learn nothing from that GM test track out here in Arizona. The recommended tire pressure takes temperature into account.
I'll state again that if they could get a free and perfectly safe boost in mileage just by increasing the recommended tire pressure the car makers would. They spend millions on research trying get improved mileage. If it was as simple as just increasing the tire pressure they would have already done it. No car maker does, yet you are claiming to know more than their millions of dollars of research and decades of experience.
You're wrong, if they wanted a "boost in fuel economy" with total disregard to everything else, they'd do the following: Raise tire pressure and adjust suspension accordingly, put taller transmissions in their vehicles, adjust valve timing so that its peak power is at around like 1500-2500rpm, use aerodynamic undersiding, remove excess accessories like A/C, sound deadening and other heavy things in the car, use small alloy wheels, lower displacement engines, and a few other things that I can't think of. No these things aren't "free" like you said, but they wouldn't put an additional cost like direct injection, diesel, hybrid or a turbo would cost, it'd be the same cost per the car, difference would be in that they'd have to do some redesigning and order different but NOT more expensive parts. Why do they not just flat out do this? Well some have, like the Cobalt XFE which basically just has a taller transmission, THATS it. As for tire pressure, manufacturers don't want their customers to flee because their cars feel like driving trucks or driving a vehicle that makes your teeth rattle. Raising tire pressure CAN make a vehicle feel more rough and that's certainly enough to deter a potential buyer! As for those other ideas, they're slowly implementing them and you'll start to see cars "magically" get better mileage as the new CAFE standards are put in place.
Well apparently you know more than any engineering team for any automaker, perhaps you should start your own car company. Then you could build a 1000lb tin can that gets a 5 star crash test rating in 1970 with no AC, radio, passenger seats, sound deadening, 11 inch wheels inflated to 200 PSI and no airbags. Im sure it'll fly off the lots
Oh and btw, a 5 Star crash test rating from 1980 is directly comparable to a 5 star crash test rating of Today, but well I'm sure you already knew that didn't you?
Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: fleabag
AGAIN, you and that other guy are doing that thing where I say one thing, you make your own claim and then say that I'm disregarding what engineers know, stating that I know more than they do and that simply ISN'T THE CASE. There is practically nothing in my posts that are saying that engineers don't know what they're doing. Instead I'm saying, this is what they can do, and they're simply not doing it for WHAT EVER REASON whether it be money, motivation, the balancing of other needs, etc. You obviously don't see fuel economy as a priority otherwise my statements wouldn't seem so outlandish. Go spend some time on some hypermiling websites and you'll either quickly realize that I know exactly what I'm talking about or you'll just disregard everything stating that these guys are liars. If you choose the latter, then all I can say is go pound sand, you've added nothing to this discussion.Originally posted by: PhoKingGuy
Originally posted by: fleabag
You honestly think that car and tire manufacturers don't realize that tires heat up? Don't you think that if their 'proper' tire pressure was causing blowouts due to heat they would increase the tire pressure? Apparently they learn nothing from that GM test track out here in Arizona. The recommended tire pressure takes temperature into account.
I'll state again that if they could get a free and perfectly safe boost in mileage just by increasing the recommended tire pressure the car makers would. They spend millions on research trying get improved mileage. If it was as simple as just increasing the tire pressure they would have already done it. No car maker does, yet you are claiming to know more than their millions of dollars of research and decades of experience.
You're wrong, if they wanted a "boost in fuel economy" with total disregard to everything else, they'd do the following: Raise tire pressure and adjust suspension accordingly, put taller transmissions in their vehicles, adjust valve timing so that its peak power is at around like 1500-2500rpm, use aerodynamic undersiding, remove excess accessories like A/C, sound deadening and other heavy things in the car, use small alloy wheels, lower displacement engines, and a few other things that I can't think of. No these things aren't "free" like you said, but they wouldn't put an additional cost like direct injection, diesel, hybrid or a turbo would cost, it'd be the same cost per the car, difference would be in that they'd have to do some redesigning and order different but NOT more expensive parts. Why do they not just flat out do this? Well some have, like the Cobalt XFE which basically just has a taller transmission, THATS it. As for tire pressure, manufacturers don't want their customers to flee because their cars feel like driving trucks or driving a vehicle that makes your teeth rattle. Raising tire pressure CAN make a vehicle feel more rough and that's certainly enough to deter a potential buyer! As for those other ideas, they're slowly implementing them and you'll start to see cars "magically" get better mileage as the new CAFE standards are put in place.
Well apparently you know more than any engineering team for any automaker, perhaps you should start your own car company. Then you could build a 1000lb tin can that gets a 5 star crash test rating in 1970 with no AC, radio, passenger seats, sound deadening, 11 inch wheels inflated to 200 PSI and no airbags. Im sure it'll fly off the lots
Oh and btw, a 5 Star crash test rating from 1980 is directly comparable to a 5 star crash test rating of Today, but well I'm sure you already knew that didn't you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I
Thats all I have to say