significant global warming is ocurring.

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Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Rain Forest Myth Goes Up in Smoke Over the Amazon

This is one of the most distorted and falsely worded features about the Rainforests and thier link to the environment I have ever seen.
A blatent misrepresentation of the facts in order to demonstrate a false conclusion.

<LA Times>

REMANSO TALISMA, Brazil ? The death of a myth begins with stinging eyes and heaving chests here on the edge of the Amazon rain forest.

Every year, fire envelops the jungle, throwing up inky billows of smoke that blot out the sun. Animals flee. Residents for miles around cry and wheeze, while the weak and unlucky develop serious respiratory problems.
When the burning season strikes, life and health in the Amazon falter, and color drains out of the riotous green landscape as great swaths of majestic trees, creeping vines, delicate bromeliads and hardy ferns are reduced to blackened stubble.

But more than just the land, these annual blazes also lay waste to a cherished notion that has roosted in the popular mind for decades: the idea of the rain forest as the "lungs of the world."

Ever since saving the Amazon became a fashionable cause in the 1980s, championed by Madonna, Sting and other celebrities, the jungle has consistently been likened to an enormous recycling plant that slurps up carbon dioxide and pumps out oxygen for us all to breathe, from Los Angeles to London to Lusaka.

Think again, scientists say.

Far from cleaning up the atmosphere, the Amazon is now a major source for pollution. Rampant burning and deforestation, mostly at the hands of illegal loggers and of ranchers, release hundreds of millions of tons of carbon dioxide into the skies each year.

Brazil now ranks as one of the world's leading producers of greenhouse gases, thanks in large part to the Amazon, the source for up to two-thirds of the country's emissions.

"It's not the lungs of the world," said Daniel Nepstad, an American ecologist who has studied the Amazon for 20 years. "It's probably burning up more oxygen now than it's producing."

Scientists such as Nepstad prefer to think of the world's largest tropical rain forest as Earth's air conditioner. The region's humidity, they say, is vital in climate regulation and cooling patterns in South America ? and perhaps as far away as Europe.

The Amazon's role as a source of pollution, not a remover of it, is directly linked to the galloping rate of destruction in the region over the last quarter-century.

The dense and steamy habitat straddles eight countries and is home to up to 20% of the world's fresh water and 30% of its plant and animal species.

Brazil's portion accounts for more than half the entire ecosystem. Official figures show that, on average, 7,500 square miles of rain forest were chopped and burned down in Brazil every year between 1979 and 2004. Over the 25 years, it's as if a forest the size of California had disappeared from the face of the Earth.

Such encroachment on virgin land is theoretically illegal or subject to tough regulation, but the government here lacks the resources ? some say the will ? to enforce environmental protection laws.

Loggers are typically the first to punch through, hacking crude roads and harvesting all the precious hardwoods they can find. One gang of woodcutters, in cahoots with crooked environmental-protection officials, cut down nearly $371 million worth of timber from 1990 until it was busted in the biggest sting operation of its kind in Brazil, authorities said last week.

Close on the loggers' heels are big ranchers and farmers, who torch the remaining vegetation to clear the way for cattle and crops such as soy, Brazil's new star export, which is claiming ever larger quantities of land.

Prime burning period in the Amazon runs from July to January, the dry season. In 2004, government satellite images of the forest registered 165,440 "hot spots," fires whose flames can shoot as high as 100 feet and push temperatures beyond 2,500 degrees.

These tremendous blazes spew about 200 million tons of carbon emissions into the atmosphere each year, which translates into several times that amount in actual carbon dioxide. In contrast, Brazil's consumption of fossil fuels, the chief source of greenhouse gases worldwide, creates less than half what the fires send up.

During burning season, dark palls of smoke settle over parts of the jungle for days.

"It becomes hard to see, and your eyes have problems. The kids all get sick and have trouble breathing," said Joaquim Borges da Silva, 42, a rural worker who lives in a small encampment here in Remanso Talisma, on the forest's outskirts.

</Bulls!it>

The rainforest, simoply by existing is it's fault that humans exploit it.
Natures faut - not mans.

Exactly! And that is why the logging should stop and be kept under control.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
CsG, the fact that in the last 400k years we have had no way near the extreme levels of Co2 in the air we have today doesn't make you worry about whether we could be causing it? It's one hell of a coincidense that it starts climbing just as humans start burning cars and such.

Now, if we do the math, we can easily find out how much Co2 we release, and how much our atmosphere ways, and we know how much is in it. I don't know if i'm able to do the maths though.
I turn to google, but since you seem so sure it's wrong CsG why don't you do the math?
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
I'd be happy if someone found some data, i won't today, i'm going to bed. 3:25am here.

Goodnight americans
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,191
41
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Id feel better if we knew why there was global warming in the past.

Yes, there was but never on the fastest rise in temp over shortest period as we do now.

Well once we figure why it happened before maybe we will get a better picture of why it happens. Right now all we know is in the past we have had global warming, global warming is happening again(maybe), and now we are supposed to sign onto the latest envrionmental movements economic ideas.

Until we can solve the puzzle of past Global Warmings it is pretty foolish to jump head first into something.



Fits right in with Shrub's life experience.

"Hmm let's see. My company Arbusto is going down fast. Don't want to actually do anything since I am ignorant and have no ideas. Right, I'll just do nothing, well maybe pray. Wow! Right decision, Harken buys my worthless shares for $1/2 million."

How does one solve problems in life? DO NOTHING:beer:

Well in Dubya's case maybe :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
True, and besides, we've shown it's worse than it was in the past. I just don't ge tpeople that can't accept facts.
 
Jun 9, 2005
104
0
0
i say take human-caused global warming and shove it up your ass get a nice little warm feeling inside and realize its fake!!!!!!!!! theres actually evidence that humans have even caused the earth to cool.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: AMDgood IntelBAD
i say take human-caused global warming and shove it up your ass get a nice little warm feeling inside and realize its fake!!!!!!!!! theres actually evidence that humans have even caused the earth to cool.

please please dig deeper than just the word "global warming"
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: AMDgood IntelBAD
i say take human-caused global warming and shove it up your ass get a nice little warm feeling inside and realize its fake!!!!!!!!! theres actually evidence that humans have even caused the earth to cool.

Please read this thread, and argue against all the facts that have been laid out here.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: LoserSlayer
Yep, global warming alright. That's why we had snow in May.

holy crap....
No kidding. If nothing else, this thread vividly illustrates the inadequacies of America's public education system.
 

ECUHITMAN

Senior member
Jun 21, 2001
815
0
0
While I am a fan of anything that reduces pollution I would like people to consider:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/giste...04859340004&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

Punta Arenas is the closest city to Antarctica in the world. And if you look at the chart you can see the average mean temp is going down. I do not know how to explain why, but it is.

or check out: http://climvis.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/cag3/hr-display3.pl and you can see that the average mean temp of the NY has gone down from 1930-present.

Go here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/state.html if you want to pick another state and/or time frame.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
While I am a fan of anything that reduces pollution I would like people to consider:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/giste...04859340004&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

Punta Arenas is the closest city to Antarctica in the world. And if you look at the chart you can see the average mean temp is going down. I do not know how to explain why, but it is.

or check out: http://climvis.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/cag3/hr-display3.pl and you can see that the average mean temp of the NY has gone down from 1930-present.

Go here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/state.html if you want to pick another state and/or time frame.
interesting
also found this graph on the average temp in the US
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-myndir/temp-usa-1895-1995.gif

and the average temp for the last 5 years in iceland is the highest ever since they started to record. And whats funny apart from one month the last 15 months I think have been beating their perspective monthly average temp record, that one extra month was I think may or april which happnened to beat the cold record. Had 40cm of snow in certain parts of the country (only lasted 1-3 days or so )


also lots more graphs in this link
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-vandamal.htm

The term Global Warming is really bad since its not partulary about global warming but more about climate change and more extreme weather.

 

ECUHITMAN

Senior member
Jun 21, 2001
815
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
While I am a fan of anything that reduces pollution I would like people to consider:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/giste...04859340004&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

Punta Arenas is the closest city to Antarctica in the world. And if you look at the chart you can see the average mean temp is going down. I do not know how to explain why, but it is.

or check out: http://climvis.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/cag3/hr-display3.pl and you can see that the average mean temp of the NY has gone down from 1930-present.

Go here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/state.html if you want to pick another state and/or time frame.
interesting
also found this graph on the average temp in the US
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-myndir/temp-usa-1895-1995.gif

and the average temp for the last 5 years in iceland is the highest ever since they started to record. And whats funny apart from one month the last 15 months I think have been beating their perspective monthly average temp record, that one extra month was I think may or april which happnened to beat the cold record. Had 40cm of snow in certain parts of the country (only lasted 1-3 days or so )


also lots more graphs in this link
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-vandamal.htm

The term Global Warming is really bad since its not partulary about global warming but more about climate change and more extreme weather.

Yeah I can't read what is said on that link.

But I agree about global warming being incorrect. Climate change is a better term, but global warming has a better more dangerous ring to it.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
While I am a fan of anything that reduces pollution I would like people to consider:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/giste...04859340004&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

Punta Arenas is the closest city to Antarctica in the world. And if you look at the chart you can see the average mean temp is going down. I do not know how to explain why, but it is.

or check out: http://climvis.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/cag3/hr-display3.pl and you can see that the average mean temp of the NY has gone down from 1930-present.

Go here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/state.html if you want to pick another state and/or time frame.
interesting
also found this graph on the average temp in the US
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-myndir/temp-usa-1895-1995.gif

and the average temp for the last 5 years in iceland is the highest ever since they started to record. And whats funny apart from one month the last 15 months I think have been beating their perspective monthly average temp record, that one extra month was I think may or april which happnened to beat the cold record. Had 40cm of snow in certain parts of the country (only lasted 1-3 days or so )


also lots more graphs in this link
http://www.rt.is/ahb/sol/sol-vandamal.htm

The term Global Warming is really bad since its not partulary about global warming but more about climate change and more extreme weather.

Yeah I can't read what is said on that link.

But I agree about global warming being incorrect. Climate change is a better term, but global warming has a better more dangerous ring to it.

I don't see what you mean. The climate is warming in general all over the world. Hence the wor dglobal warming.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Scientist's correct sensor readings that were wrong.

All of the Republicans swear by the incorrect readings:

8-13-2005 Data Error May Have Hidden Some Warming

WASHINGTON - The puzzling difference between warming temperatures on the ground and not-so-warm readings in the sky above may have been resolved.

Atmospheric researchers studying global warming have sought for years to determine why readings taken from weather balloons didn't show the same increases as readings on the ground. The difference has fueled skeptics of global warming.

Now, researchers at Yale University say exposed instruments on the balloons may be the problem.

older versions of the balloons used temperature probes that were exposed. The result was higher-than-normal readings on probes sent up in daytime because of the sunlight exposure.

In more recent years, however, new probes were developed that were shielded from the light.

After correcting for the problem, the researchers estimate there has been a global temperature increase of 0.4 degree Fahrenheit, per decade, for the last 30 years.

Unfortunately, the warming is in an accelerating trend.

 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Ferocious
click

Hopefully we can come up with a solution before it's too late!

I was thinking about the movie 'Total Recall' with those breathable domed cities (on Mars) and all those mutants walking around. I'd hate to live like that.
we're ALL gonna die!

the earth's climate goes in cycles.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Ferocious
click

Hopefully we can come up with a solution before it's too late!

I was thinking about the movie 'Total Recall' with those breathable domed cities (on Mars) and all those mutants walking around. I'd hate to live like that.
we're ALL gonna die!

the earth's climate goes in cycles.

How do you explain that it has NEVER cycled like it is now the last 100 yrs???
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Ferocious
click

Hopefully we can come up with a solution before it's too late!

I was thinking about the movie 'Total Recall' with those breathable domed cities (on Mars) and all those mutants walking around. I'd hate to live like that.
we're ALL gonna die!

the earth's climate goes in cycles.

How do you explain that it has NEVER cycled like it is now the last 100 yrs???

Never is a long time Dave. And considering that we've only been measuring temperature for a miniscule percentage of "never" and currently rely on a very small sample of ice cores and tree rings to determine how the world used to be I don't know how anyone can say that the earth has never seen a change like this.

And that in a nutshell is why this whole cliamate change debate drives me so crazy. Because as nutty as Dave is, there are some fairly well respected people out there saying the same thing. And the evidence just doesn't make that case.

Truth be told, in the history of the earth it has been MUCH warmer than it is now and MUCH colder and there have been some rather violent swings between the two. What's more, just to add to the overall confusion on the topic, CO2 levels have been MUCH higher (by over 10 times) than they are now and during some of those elevated CO2 periods we've seen ice ages.

As it stands right now we are in one of the cooler periods in earth's history and are experiencing one of the lowest atmospheric CO2 concentrations. Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have fluctuated wildly in the past without us. It's hard to deny that we've had an effect on our world but I just don't believe the data support the hysteria.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Truth be told, in the history of the earth it has been MUCH warmer than it is now and MUCH colder and there have been some rather violent swings between the two.

True, but that's no reason not to worry, as some of the Earth's dramatic past climates killed large percentages of species living at the time. I'm interested in the survival of human civilization, not the planet. The planet just a ball of rock that doesn't care much if there's a mile thick ice in the tropics as happened during the snowball Earth phase, but human civilization wouldn't have survived that climate.

What's more, just to add to the overall confusion on the topic, CO2 levels have been MUCH higher (by over 10 times) than they are now and during some of those elevated CO2 periods we've seen ice ages.

What's your source for this? What other environmental factors were important at those times?
 

coomar

Banned
Apr 4, 2005
2,431
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
What are you talking about, Domes?...Fvck that...Canada the next tropical destination?!...YES PLEASE!


what are you talking about, if you want to live in the tropical climate, move to the tropics, leave canada nice and cold
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I am all for clean air and protecting the planet. But we are having a warm summer here in NJ, but we have not reached levels of heat reached 50 years ago. So while it may be a true situation, it does seem a little stretched.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: cquark
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Truth be told, in the history of the earth it has been MUCH warmer than it is now and MUCH colder and there have been some rather violent swings between the two.

True, but that's no reason not to worry, as some of the Earth's dramatic past climates killed large percentages of species living at the time. I'm interested in the survival of human civilization, not the planet. The planet just a ball of rock that doesn't care much if there's a mile thick ice in the tropics as happened during the snowball Earth phase, but human civilization wouldn't have survived that climate.

What's more, just to add to the overall confusion on the topic, CO2 levels have been MUCH higher (by over 10 times) than they are now and during some of those elevated CO2 periods we've seen ice ages.

What's your source for this? What other environmental factors were important at those times?

Check the graph...
Why can't we keep this crap on one thread?
 
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