Situation In Iraq Has Worsened

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

There's a difference between showing compassion and respect to U.S. soldiers killed and whining and complaining they've been killed. You can't support the troops AND support the war solely because the vast majority of the troops support the war. Unless you want to drive around with a sticker that says "I support our troops that don't support the war", but that would look tacky and we wouldn't want that, would we?

Actually I know a lot of GIs who oppose the war, but they go because it's their duty. One of my closest friends is the mother of an infant and a toddler, and she's in Balad right now.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

There's a difference between showing compassion and respect to U.S. soldiers killed and whining and complaining they've been killed. You can't support the troops AND support the war solely because the vast majority of the troops support the war. Unless you want to drive around with a sticker that says "I support our troops that don't support the war", but that would look tacky and we wouldn't want that, would we?

Actually I know a lot of GIs who oppose the war, but they go because it's their duty. One of my closest friends is the mother of an infant and a toddler, and she's in Balad right now.

Yeah there are GIs who oppose the war, but the vast majority are for it. Ironically those who are seeing the action first-hand too.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

So let me get this straight.

According to you, Iraq will not be a success until we have 2,500 sodiers dying a day?

are you honestly confused, or is that your idea of a joke?

The D-day data was provided for you to put things into perspective. It is a powerful example of how much the American people used to be willing to sacrifice in pursuit of a just cause.

In this case, rescuing the Greater Middle East from itself, and at the same time securing our own safety and that of our future generations, are righteous enough causes to justify our past and future sacrifices. If this war takes 50 years, and during that time we lose 25,000 soldiers, then I believe it's still worth it.

And this is coming from one who is out there fighting and making the actual sacrifice. I do so from a very educated perspective, and I do so righteously. And most importantly, I do so with conviction and dedication to stay the course and pay whatever price I must.

My biggest fear is not the bullet of my enemy, but rather my own country pulling out too quickly and making all of my sacrifice null and void.

g'day.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Yeah there are GIs who oppose the war, but the vast majority are for it. Ironically those who are seeing the action first-hand too.

I can vouch for that as one of those you speak of.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Yeah there are GIs who oppose the war, but the vast majority are for it. Ironically those who are seeing the action first-hand too.

I can vouch for that as one of those you speak of.

One of my best friends is one of them too. He can also vouch for his buddies in Iraq too for supporting the war.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
One of my best friends is one of them too. He can also vouch for his buddies in Iraq too for supporting the war.

And I can tell you why: It's because those of us who have been there have seen all of the good that is happening outside of the battles. And in those beautiful moments, we have seen the true potential of the region. Each one of us has been witness to a people who are fighting hard for their freedom, and a people who are willing to make sacrifices to get there.

We have been welcomed into homes for tea... witnessed new schools being built...seen wells dug, and perhaps most importantly, we have seen children run toward us with smiles the size and brightness of suns; always ready with a hug!

Therein lies our purpose and strength as soldiers. Each one of those moments makes the scary ones worth it.

So unlike Americans who don't see any of that or understand our true intentions over there, we actually have hope.

The sad fact is that you will never see any of that from your living rooms. The media is fighting their own war, and I'll tell you this much: They are certainly not on MY side or the side of those we are over there fighting for.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I wish that all of my fellow Americans would rediscover the concepts of "conviction" and "sacrifice;" concepts that were alive and well no more than 50 years ago, but have somehow been left behind in the dust of the "I Want it Here and Now" generation.

Less than 3000 US dead in 4+ years of fighting OEF and OIF... As a soldier, I recognize the possibility of and necessity for death in warfare, and I accept it. Why can't all Americans do the same?

The goal in Iraq and Afghanistan is to democratize the middle east and Central Asia; and thus bring them out of the 7th century. Is it possible? I guess we'll have to wait and see. The point is that the overall intentions are worthy of respect, and it's therefore worth the effort to actually WAIT and see!

This is a long-term project folks. This is not a 1hr TV-series episode wherein the good guys overcome the bad guys in 60minutes or less. This "war" will be one that takes decades! Don't you all understand that!?

In the end, I believe that we (The Western civilized world) can triumph.

But for that to happen, it's going to take conviction and more sacrifice on everyone's part.

The goal here is to make our childrens' children safe. Is that too abstract or intangible for you to fathom or accept?

Stay the course people, and for God's sake, please don't politically force a premature withdrawal. -I- am willing to go over there time and time again to do my part in building their nations. All I ask, if you are not willing to risk your own arse, is that you support me and give the entire mission time to succeed (decades) so as not to make my efforts and sacrifice null and void.

Dont you get it? Are you simply too soft or afraid to accept the longterm sacrifices?

FACT: More than 2500 US soldiers died in a single day of fighting on D-day. The men and women of that era damn well knew the true meanings of the words conviction and sacrifice.

Wake up people. Please.

Oh, Jesus H. Fvcking Christ.

Here comes another Freeper with the stupid-ass WWII comparisons.

Hey, Freeper! What are the differences between military technologies and the strategies employed between WWII and Iraq? Hmm? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 1.

Want a somewhat better comparison? What about the # of journalists killed? We've already surpassed the # killed in Vietnam throughout the entire conflict and we're not even 3 years into Iraq.

The OP posted what is essentially flamebait and the idiocy displayed therein is being put on display by posting what's really going on in Iraq.


You say you're willing to go over there? Well, they need people to enlist. Recruitment is down. Send us a postcard.

 

[piasabird]

We could pull out to morrow and it would not make a difference. It is one giant quagmire. When the war started any intelligent human being had to admit that this would happen. I wish the people of Iraq the best, but they have just traded dictatorship and cruelty for terrorists and cruelty.

The biggest problem is that our troops are not allowed to wipe out areas where the terrorists hide. We are too busy being the kinder and gentler occupying force. We tried this war where we tried to not kill too many people. To hell with all this mister nice guy stuff. We should have bombed Baghdad and the Suni Triangle till it was rubble.

There is no such thing as a nice war!

If Iran interferes, bomb them too.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Yeah there are GIs who oppose the war, but the vast majority are for it. Ironically those who are seeing the action first-hand too.

I suppose the military funds polls in Iraq? Can you link those numbers? Ya, some guys want a war, any war, it's their business and they want to blow sh!t up and kill people. Some are in it for college money. Many "support" it because they have vested interest in the war, it's their sweat, blood and tears. Other just blindly support the commander in Chief, no matter how lousy a job he is doing.

Not like their opinion is any more important than the rest of the citizens and tax payers, it all of our war and most of us do not support it.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
One of my best friends is one of them too. He can also vouch for his buddies in Iraq too for supporting the war.

And I can tell you why: It's because those of us who have been there have seen all of the good that is happening outside of the battles. And in those beautiful moments, we have seen the true potential of the region. Each one of us has been witness to a people who are fighting hard for their freedom, and a people who are willing to make sacrifices to get there.

We have been welcomed into homes for tea... witnessed new schools being built...seen wells dug, and perhaps most importantly, we have seen children run toward us with smiles the size and brightness of suns; always ready with a hug!

Therein lies our purpose and strength as soldiers. Each one of those moments makes the scary ones worth it.

So unlike Americans who don't see any of that or understand our true intentions over there, we actually have hope.

The sad fact is that you will never see any of that from your living rooms. The media is fighting their own war, and I'll tell you this much: They are certainly not on MY side or the side of those we are over there fighting for.

I want to know why it is taking so long for them to be able to do their OWN fighting.

Another thing, would you rather believe you are in Iraq doing God's business, or just murdering people for our economic interests? Do you think the fact you are over there might influence your opinion about what your purpose over there is?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, Jesus H. Fvcking Christ.

Here comes another Freeper with the stupid-ass WWII comparisons.

Hey, Freeper! What are the differences between military technologies and the strategies employed between WWII and Iraq? Hmm? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 1.

Of course technology has influenced the number of deaths, but what exactly does that have to do with the American peoples' willingness to sacrifice? The point I was making is that people nowadays are unable to stomach the sacrifices required in war; while those who lived during WWII had to deal with more sacrifice and loss in a single day than you or I during the past 5 years! And they did so willingly and with pride!

Want a somewhat better comparison? What about the # of journalists killed? We've already surpassed the # killed in Vietnam throughout the entire conflict and we're not even 3 years into Iraq.

umm, wrong place, wrong time syndrome? WTH are they doing there in the first place? We also have thousands of journalists in Iraq for every 1 that covered Vietnam. And to tell you the truth, I'm sick of every last one of them. Do you want to know how many times I almost died for the sake of a reporter trying to get a scoop?! bah... as far as I'm concerned, they are all in the damn way; and while their deaths are sad, I believe that their presence there in the first place is entirely unnecessary.

The OP posted what is essentially flamebait and the idiocy displayed therein is being put on display by posting what's really going on in Iraq.

you have NO IDEA what is really going on over there if all you have to rely upon is your list of AP releases, the NY Times, and the CNN 5 o'clock news.

There is so much that is good happening over there that you will never know about or believe... and chances are that your ignorance of that goodness will be the downfall of all of our efforts to build something special over there.

You say you're willing to go over there? Well, they need people to enlist. Recruitment is down. Send us a postcard.

I've been in for 10 years and have made two trips over there as an infantryman. I will be making my 3rd trip over there next year. I do so voluntarily and with pride in myself for the sacrifice I am making for YOU, and for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And if I had some way to show you the great and wonderful changes occuring over there, I'd gladly capture them in a postcard and send it to you... but chances are, you'd ignore them because they aren't worth the sacrifice you somehow believe that YOU are making.

Please do not lobby for early withdrawal. Thank you.

 

[Todd33]

Sacrafice? LOL.

This is the first war in US history to have tax cuts. We don't pay for the war, we don't allow pictures of coffins, we don't have a draft, WTF do we sacrafice?

How about we pay for the war, ~300M citiznes/~$300B = ~$1,000. Write your check fly boy, I will if we all do.

How about we re-instate the draft and see how the rich and powerful like sending their own kids and relatives off to die, maybe the chickenhawks will think more carefully before they say "bring it on". The mention of sacrafice is an absolute joke, the right would love to shut down all news and hide any evidence that there is a war until they get what they want from Iraq.

 

[mc00]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, Jesus H. Fvcking Christ.

Here comes another Freeper with the stupid-ass WWII comparisons.

Hey, Freeper! What are the differences between military technologies and the strategies employed between WWII and Iraq? Hmm? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 1.

Of course technology has influenced the number of deaths, but what exactly does that have to do with the American peoples' willingness to sacrifice? The point I was making is that people nowadays are unable to stomach the sacrifices required in war; while those who lived during WWII had to deal with more sacrifice and loss in a single day than you or I during the past 5 years! And they did so willingly and with pride!
[sca

Want a somewhat better comparison? What about the # of journalists killed? We've already surpassed the # killed in Vietnam throughout the entire conflict and we're not even 3 years into Iraq.

umm, wrong place, wrong time syndrome? WTH are they doing there in the first place? We also have thousands of journalists in Iraq for every 1 that covered Vietnam. And to tell you the truth, I'm sick of every last one of them. Do you want to know how many times I almost died for the sake of a reporter trying to get a scoop?! bah... as far as I'm concerned, they are all in the damn way; and while their deaths are sad, I believe that their presence there in the first place is entirely unnecessary.

The OP posted what is essentially flamebait and the idiocy displayed therein is being put on display by posting what's really going on in Iraq.

you have NO IDEA what is really going on over there if all you have to rely upon is your list of AP releases, the NY Times, and the CNN 5 o'clock news.

There is so much that is good happening over there that you will never know about or believe... and chances are that your ignorance of that goodness will be the downfall of all of our efforts to build something special over there.

You say you're willing to go over there? Well, they need people to enlist. Recruitment is down. Send us a postcard.

I've been in for 10 years and have made two trips over there as an infantryman. I will be making my 3rd trip over there next year. I do so voluntarily and with pride in myself for the sacrifice I am making for YOU, and for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And if I had some way to show you the great and wonderful changes occuring over there, I'd gladly capture them in a postcard and send it to you... but chances are, you'd ignore them because they aren't worth the sacrifice you somehow believe that YOU are making.

Please do not lobby for early withdrawal. Thank you.

[sarcasm on]

give this guy an oscar....

[sarcasm off]

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sacrafice? LOL.

This is the first war in US history to have tax cuts. We don't pay for the war, we don't allow pictures of coffins, we don't have a draft, WTF do we sacrafice?

How about we pay for the war, ~300M citiznes/~$300B = ~$1,000. Write your check fly boy, I will if we all do.

How about we re-instate the draft and see how the rich and powerful like sending their own kids and relatives off to die, maybe the chickenhawks will think more carefully before they say "bring it on". The mention of sacrafice is an absolute joke, the right would love to shut down all news and hide any evidence that there is a war until they get what they want from Iraq.

That would be $1000 for every man, woman and child in the US. A family of 5 would be $5000. Of course not many people on SS pay any income tax, so you better up that $1000 figure some more.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I want to know why it is taking so long for them to be able to do their OWN fighting.

Another thing, would you rather believe you are in Iraq doing God's business, or just murdering people for our economic interests? Do you think the fact you are over there might influence your opinion about what your purpose over there is?

1. They are doing their own fighting every day, but it takes alot fo time to train an Army which can be effective against a dug-in insurgency. Again we re-visit the concept of "time," and the level of effort and sacrifice required to accomplish a task. In this case, they are trying harder than most people try at anything in their entire lives.. but it will just take more time.

2. I don't believe that I'm doing "God's business" or "murdering people for our own economic interests." I don't believe either one of those propoganda-esque statements are true.

I continue to fight for the freedom and betterment of the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan because I have seen their potential first-hand. I have seen their hopes and dreams come alive, and I have seen the level of conviction that the majority of them have in their mission to establish democracy and freedom. I am mostly fighting for THEM.

I am also fighting because I have seen the ugliness and fanaticism of our enemies first-hand. The entire world will be better off when every single one of them is in the ground or is off staking claim to his 77 virgins. Their blindness to everything that is good and just is more scary than anything you can possibly fathom in your cozy living rooms.

The terrorists are trapped in the 7th century, and welcome it.

The majority of their populace are also trapped in the 7th century, but are fighting as hard as they can to bring themselves into the 21st century.

That is the difference between who we are fighting against and who we are fighting for.

One thing that I'd like to make clear right now: to those of you who believe I say any of this out of blind trust in my commander-in-chief, or some sort of warmonger ignorance of the truth; you couldnt be more wrong. I have been studying terrorism for many years, and entered the war as an educated man completely aware of the geopolitcal situation. Every decision I have made has been my own, and they have been made using my own internal scale of morality.

be safe, and be good to people.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

I've been in for 10 years and have made two trips over there as an infantryman. I will be making my 3rd trip over there next year. I do so voluntarily and with pride in myself for the sacrifice I am making for YOU, and for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And if I had some way to show you the great and wonderful changes occuring over there, I'd gladly capture them in a postcard and send it to you... but chances are, you'd ignore them because they aren't worth the sacrifice you somehow believe that YOU are making.

Please do not lobby for early withdrawal. Thank you.

Being the internet and all you can be whoever you say you want to be, today you may be a soldier. Lets take for granted you are telling the truth. You are no more qualified than any other informed citizen to advocate a side of the occupation. I was never asked if I want to spend $400B tax dollars and countless lives "doing good" in Iraq. If you wanted to do good you could join the peace corp or a missionary, the military is for defending the United States of America or our allies, neither of which was Iraq. They lied about WMDs, they lied about Al Quada links, now they are selling us democracy for the middle east. I'm glad you feel good about your work there, but we can still debate the decisions of our civilian leaders, that is what being an American is all about.

Governor Bush said it best:

Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
One of my best friends is one of them too. He can also vouch for his buddies in Iraq too for supporting the war.

And I can tell you why: It's because those of us who have been there have seen all of the good that is happening outside of the battles. And in those beautiful moments, we have seen the true potential of the region. Each one of us has been witness to a people who are fighting hard for their freedom, and a people who are willing to make sacrifices to get there.

We have been welcomed into homes for tea... witnessed new schools being built...seen wells dug, and perhaps most importantly, we have seen children run toward us with smiles the size and brightness of suns; always ready with a hug!

Therein lies our purpose and strength as soldiers. Each one of those moments makes the scary ones worth it.

So unlike Americans who don't see any of that or understand our true intentions over there, we actually have hope.

The sad fact is that you will never see any of that from your living rooms. The media is fighting their own war, and I'll tell you this much: They are certainly not on MY side or the side of those we are over there fighting for.

How nice, you've been welcomed into homes for tea..witnessed new schools being built..
seen wells dug...
I suppose that's the new rationale for the war, to build schools and hospitals.
Let's see, no WMD, no connection to Al Qaeda, no threat to the US-but we're building schools.
Meanwhile, our schools are crumbling, hospitals are closing, but we have unlimited money for Iraq. How about another round of tax cuts?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
That would be $1000 for every man, woman and child in the US. A family of 5 would be $5000. Of course not many people on SS pay any income tax, so you better up that $1000 figure some more.

I'm not sure what SS has to do with anything, other than your disdain for the elderly? Maybe we can just send the bill to everyone that voted for Dubya? I never supported this war, I never bought the WMD stuff. But I'm willing to pay my share, unlike the Republicans who voted against a roll back of the tax cuts to pay for the war, then voted for their version to stick it on the national debt.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Waaaaaa people die in war? Waaaaa! No way! MOMMY! Why do people die in war!? Why don't they shoot at eachother with beebee guns!?!??!?! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

You're an ass.

QFT! :|

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I want to know why it is taking so long for them to be able to do their OWN fighting.

Another thing, would you rather believe you are in Iraq doing God's business, or just murdering people for our economic interests? Do you think the fact you are over there might influence your opinion about what your purpose over there is?

1. They are doing their own fighting every day, but it takes alot fo time to train an Army which can be effective against a dug-in insurgency. Again we re-visit the concept of "time," and the level of effort and sacrifice required to accomplish a task. In this case, they are trying harder than most people try at anything in their entire lives.. but it will just take more time.

2. I don't believe that I'm doing "God's business" or "murdering people for our own economic interests." I don't believe either one of those propoganda-esque statements are true.

I continue to fight for the freedom and bettering of the peoples of Iraw and Afghanistan because I have seen their potential first-hand. I have seen their hopes and dreams come alive, and I have seen the level of conviction that the majority of them have in their mission to establish democracy and freedom. I am mostly fighting for THEM.

I am also fighting because I have seen the ugliness and fanaticism of our enemies first-hand. The entire world will be better off when every single one of them is in the ground or is off staking claim on his 77 virgins. Their blindness to everything that is good and just is more scary than anything you can possibly fathom in your cozy living rooms.

The terrorists are trapped in the 7th century, and welcome it.

The majority of their populace are also trapped in the 7th century, but are fighting as hard as they can to bring themselves into the 21st century.

That is the difference between who we are fighting against and who we are fighting for.

One thing that I'd like to make clear right now: to those of you who believe I say any of this out of blind trust in my commander-in-chief, or some sort of warmonger ignorance of the truth; you couldnt be more wrong. I have been studying terrorism for many years, and entered the war as an educated man completely aware of the geopolitcal situation. Every decision I have made has been my own, and they have been made using my own internal scale of morality.

be safe, and be good to people.

I personally see no good reason why we couldn't have trained an army capable of doing their own fighting by now. That leads me to believe that we can't trust them. Based on that one fact alone, I think we are wasting not only our resources, but our soldiers lives.

How much longer should we stay there? I really don't see how the good we are accomplishing has been worth it?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, Jesus H. Fvcking Christ.

Here comes another Freeper with the stupid-ass WWII comparisons.

Hey, Freeper! What are the differences between military technologies and the strategies employed between WWII and Iraq? Hmm? I'll give you a hint. It's more than 1.

Of course technology has influenced the number of deaths, but what exactly does that have to do with the American peoples' willingness to sacrifice? The point I was making is that people nowadays are unable to stomach the sacrifices required in war; while those who lived during WWII had to deal with more sacrifice and loss in a single day than you or I during the past 5 years! And they did so willingly and with pride!

No, you're trying to equate the massive loss of life (true sacrifice) in WWII with men and women being used as political pawns in a tragic loss of life (over lies). Also, the military technology didn't exist in WWII that we have now that allows for much fewer troops to be used in lieu of bombers, missiles, etc.

And, sacrifice? What have Americans sacrificed since the invasion? Well, the middle class and the poor have sacrificed their earnings while the rich get more tax cuts. Gas/oil goes up and no calls to conserve. How much sacrifice was asked daily of Americans during WWII?

Want a somewhat better comparison? What about the # of journalists killed? We've already surpassed the # killed in Vietnam throughout the entire conflict and we're not even 3 years into Iraq.

umm, wrong place, wrong time syndrome? WTH are they doing there in the first place? We also have thousands of journalists in Iraq for every 1 that covered Vietnam. And to tell you the truth, I'm sick of every last one of them. Do you want to know how many times I almost died for the sake of a reporter trying to get a scoop?! bah... as far as I'm concerned, they are all in the damn way; and while their deaths are sad, I believe that their presence there in the first place is entirely unnecessary.

I suppose you think the Pentagon (people like Larry DiRita and Victoria Toensing) is going to provide anything other than propaganda? Puh-leeze!

The OP posted what is essentially flamebait and the idiocy displayed therein is being put on display by posting what's really going on in Iraq.

you have NO IDEA what is really going on over there if all you have to rely upon is your list of AP releases, the NY Times, and the CNN 5 o'clock news.

NO IDEA, eh? Sounds like a pretty good idea, to me. Granted it's not 100% of the story but it's a good 80-90%. I've also spoken with veterans of this war and of prior wars who are against this invasion/occupation and I've spoken with kids (two of my daughter's ex-boyfriends) who have enlisted. One enlisted solely for the money and because he was also lied to (they said he wouldn't be going to Iraq...he's in the KY National Guard and is now on his way to Iraq). The other is all for the war and from my conversation with him I could tell he wouldn't even begin to think of evaluating any position that wasn't espoused by Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. He'll make a great soldier, I'm sure.

There is so much that is good happening over there that you will never know about or believe... and chances are that your ignorance of that goodness will be the downfall of all of our efforts to build something special over there.

You mean the fact that electricity output is still below pre-war levels along with oil production? That the murder/kidnapping rate is skyrocketing? Unemployment is rampant? Women are suffering under Taliban-esque rule in various cities?

Sure, there's *some* reconstruction going on but that's only after the US bombed the sh*t out of most of the country. It's the least the US could do is restore it to pre-invasion levels.

You say you're willing to go over there? Well, they need people to enlist. Recruitment is down. Send us a postcard.

I've been in for 10 years and have made two trips over there as an infantryman. I will be making my 3rd trip over there next year. I do so voluntarily and with pride in myself for the sacrifice I am making for YOU, and for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

You aren't making a sacrifice for ME nor for the people of Iraq nor Afghanistan. You're a pawn of the PNAC fvcks and other ideological chickenhawks running the White House and the Pentagon who never served one day in the military, much less in combat. They don't care about you (look at how veterans' benefits are being cut more and more each year). They care about their failed ideology. Well, guess what? It didn't work during the Vietnam era and these same players from back then are trying to make the same mistake twice (and in that they succeeded)

And if I had some way to show you the great and wonderful changes occuring over there, I'd gladly capture them in a postcard and send it to you... but chances are, you'd ignore them because they aren't worth the sacrifice you somehow believe that YOU are making.

Please do not lobby for early withdrawal. Thank you.

I'll lobby for a complete pullout and I'll do so proudly as I support the American troops and don't want to see one more soldier die for the PNAC lie.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: marincounty
How nice, you've been welcomed into homes for tea..witnessed new schools being built..
seen wells dug...
I suppose that's the new rationale for the war, to build schools and hospitals.
Let's see, no WMD, no connection to Al Qaeda, no threat to the US-but we're building schools.
Meanwhile, our schools are crumbling, hospitals are closing, but we have unlimited money for Iraq. How about another round of tax cuts?

it's always funny to see liberals complain about paying for other peoples' problems... the irony in that belief is nearly beyond comprehension.

Just let me get this straight: when is it ok to help out another person?

Last point: if you dont believe in the current threats to the US, then you are beyond ignorant, or you live in dreamland...or both. Will it take another building blowing up to convince you otherwise? How about another dozen embassies or so being blown to pieces? At which point will you wake up and say "duh, i guess they really do want to kill us all...derrrr" ?

Maybe I, and those like me, should let the next bomb go off instead of working to stop them... maybe that would remind you that we really and truly are at war with more fanatical enemies than you can imagine, and with more conviction than you can fathom.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
That would be $1000 for every man, woman and child in the US. A family of 5 would be $5000. Of course not many people on SS pay any income tax, so you better up that $1000 figure some more.

I'm not sure what SS has to do with anything, other than your disdain for the elderly? Maybe we can just send the bill to everyone that voted for Dubya? I never supported this war, I never bought the WMD stuff. But I'm willing to pay my share, unlike the Republicans who voted against a roll back of the tax cuts to pay for the war, then voted for their version to stick it on the national debt.

Your point was the war is costing us $1000 per person and you'd pay your share. The only thing I was trying to point out is that we don't have 300 million taxpayers, so your $1000 perperson figure isn't really accurate in figuring your share. It needs to be figured by the number of people who are actually paying taxes.

I only mentioned SS to try and illustrate my point, because most people on SS aren't paying any federal income taxes so someone will have to pay their share, because they sure can't afford to pay it.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Will it take another building blowing up to convince you otherwise? How about another dozen embassies or so being blown to pieces? At which point will you wake up and say "duh, i guess they really do want to kill us all...derrrr" ?

Maybe I, and those like me, should let the next bomb go off instead of working to stop them... maybe that would remind you that we really and truly are at war with more enemies than you can imagine, and with more conviction than you can fathom.

You sound scared and frightened, I suppose the terrorist already won in your neck of the woods. Us "liberals" in the blue states, you know the states where terrorist attack, not bum-fck nowhere-land, except risk and brave it. We don't surrender to our fears and let the government turn the land of the free into the land of the police state. Seek therapy, you have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Your point was the war is costing us $1000 per person and you'd pay your share. The only thing I was trying to point out is that we don't have 300 million taxpayers, so your $1000 perperson figure isn't really accurate in figuring your share. It needs to be figured by the number of people who are actually paying taxes.

I only mentioned SS to try and illustrate my point, because most people on SS aren't paying any federal income taxes so someone will have to pay their share, because they sure can't afford to pay it.

I said write a check (a personal one), I never mentioned tax payers. It's just a simple concept to illustrate a point. Of course most could not afford the $1000, so I'm willing to roll back those trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich, sacrifice and all.