Situation In Iraq Has Worsened

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BBond
Here's all the proof you or anyone could ever need if you can only learn to recognize when you've been lied to. :roll:

Iraq on the Record

HAPPY READING!

For you to ignore the entirely political motives of that document is astounding. Second, nowhere in that document is there PROOOOOOOOOOOF that the president miseld intentionally, or lied.

Please save your Michael Moore inspired propoganda links for those less informed. I have read it all, and much much more.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want audio, video, or paper proof that the President of the United states intentionally lied to everyone.

For those of us who arrived in English class a little late, there's no such beast as an unintentional lie. Lying is by definition the willful telling of an untruth. If it's not intentional, it isn't a lie.

From Dictionary.com:

lie: To present false information with the intention of deceiving.

ok mr Lex, my apologies. I will revise the statement for those human spellchecking machines who may misinterpret my intentions due to one gramatical error.

"I want audio, video, or paper proof that the President of the United states intentionally misled, or lied, to the world."

better? now try addressing the challenge.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BBond
I second the motion. :laugh:

I immediately withdrew and editted the rude remark, and I apologize sincerely for hurting your feelings.

why are you guys trying to silence the opposition?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
prove it. prove that he lied. I want audio, video, or paper proof that the President of the United states intentionally lied to everyone.

I'll be over here waiting for your proof... as I've been waiting for the entire 3 years you folks have been spouting that line of total and complete BS.

Well you frame it in a way that is impossible to prove, "intentionally lied". It's very hard to prove intention. You and everyone else know Bush and the rest of the team wanted the Iraq war no matter what. They picked the intel that helped their cause and ignored evidence that contradicted their view. They hyped the bad intel, no matter who warned them it was thin. They fear mongered on TV for months to change public opinion, which was still in mourning over 9/11, a non-related event. You have chosen to support Bush no matter what, you have essentially closed your eyes to anything that doesn't support your world view. The rest of America, a growing majority (not all "pinkos") now accept that Bush mislead his way into war. People like you have no issue dismantling a president over a BJ and yet give a pass to real abuses like Nixon and Bush. Unless we hold all of our leaders accountable without regard to party, we will always end up with unqualified liars.

If you want video or transcripts of the misleading that lead to Iraq, it's in abundance on the net. You and the right just point at the CIA and blame them for bad intel, but that's a cop out. The intel told two stories and the WH chose to present only one. I'm sure you are well aware of all the various stories, from Curveball, to aluminum tubes, to yellowcake, etc. etc. Are they "intentional lies"? I believe so, but again intention cannot be proved. Are they lies? Well it wasn't the truth, so we are down to semantics. We sure were sold a bill of good and now we are in a mess because of it.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BBond
I second the motion. :laugh:

I immediately withdrew and editted the rude remark, and I apologize sincerely for hurting your feelings.

why are you guys trying to silence the opposition?

Becasue you have already been answered with numerous links, and you are still keeping your head in the sand, thus no rational debate with the brainwashed, kinda like arguing with a fundamentalist. Pointless.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: palehorse74
prove it. prove that he lied. I want audio, video, or paper proof that the President of the United states intentionally lied to everyone.

I'll be over here waiting for your proof... as I've been waiting for the entire 3 years you folks have been spouting that line of total and complete BS.

Well you frame it in a way that is impossible to prove, "intentionally lied". It's very hard to prove intention. You and everyone else know Bush and the rest of the team wanted the Iraq war no matter what. They picked the intel that helped their cause and ignored evidence that contradicted their view. They hyped the bad intel, no matter who warned them it was thin. They fear mongered on TV for months to change public opinion, which was still in mourning over 9/11, a non-related event. You chosen to support Bush no matter what, you have essentially closed your eyes to anything that doesn't support your world view. The rest of America, a growing majority (not all "pinkos") now accept that Bush mislead his way into war. People like you have no issue dismantling a president over a BJ and yet give a pass to real abuses like Nixon and Bush. Unless we hold all of our leaders accountable without regard to party, we will always end up with unqualified liars.

If you want video or transcripts of the misleading that lead to Iraq, it's in abundance on the net. You and the right just point at the CIA and blame them for bad intel, but that's a cop out. The intel told two stories and the WH chose to present only one. I'm sure you are well aware of all the various stories, from Curveball, to aluminum tubes, to yellowcake, etc. etc. Are they "intentional lies"? I believe so, but again intention cannot be proved. Are they lies? Well it wasn't the truth, so we are down to semantics. We sure were sold a bill of good and now we are in a mess because of it.

No, i want proof of anything that President George W. Bush did to intentionally mislead the world. I want witness testimony, video, audio, or documented proof, of the behind the scenes conspiracy which directly led to President Bush getting in front of microphone to tell a blatant lie to the world.

As I said, I believe that HE believed that there were WMD's in Iraq. That makes him honest in my eyes. End of story.

The fact that those beliefs later turned out to be false, or based on faulty data, is irrelevant in terms of accusing him of lying. period.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BBond
Here's all the proof you or anyone could ever need if you can only learn to recognize when you've been lied to. :roll:

Iraq on the Record

HAPPY READING!

For you to ignore the entirely political motives of that document is astounding. Second, nowhere in that document is there PROOOOOOOOOOOF that the president miseld intentionally, or lied.

Please save your Michael Moore inspired propoganda links for those less informed. I have read it all, and much much more.

You people really crack me up. Who do you think you're trying to bullsh!t???

Aren't YOU the same people who attack the press for printing information without verification??? And shouldn't that rule be enforced even more when it's applied to a president using un-verified information to take our nation to war???

Please, don't be ridiculous. Just because you can't recognize when you've been lied to, don't expect the rest of us to swallow the same garbage you're willing to accept -- UNVERIFIED information used as fact IS A LIE.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BBond
I second the motion. :laugh:

I immediately withdrew and editted the rude remark, and I apologize sincerely for hurting your feelings.

why are you guys trying to silence the opposition?

Becasue you have already been answered with numerous links, and you are still keeping your head in the sand, thus no rational debate with the brainwashed, kinda like arguing with a fundamentalist. Pointless.

I have rebuked every attempt you have made to shun the truth. Not a single one of you has provided PROOF of anything. All you have done is link to and quote the usual propoganda that for some reason makes you think it is ok to call someone a "LIAR" who did not do so.

If a man himself believes what he says based upon information given to him by those whose job it is to provide accurate data, then that man himself is not a LIAR. HE still deserves criticism for making a mistake based upon the faulty data, but he himself is not to blame for the data itself.

He may have been intentionally misled, but I do not believe for a second that he did so to the world.

I honestly believe that his only mistake was putting too much emphasis on the WMD issue when there were many more perfectly valid reasons for invading Iraq.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BBond
Here's all the proof you or anyone could ever need if you can only learn to recognize when you've been lied to. :roll:

Iraq on the Record

HAPPY READING!

For you to ignore the entirely political motives of that document is astounding. Second, nowhere in that document is there PROOOOOOOOOOOF that the president miseld intentionally, or lied.

Please save your Michael Moore inspired propoganda links for those less informed. I have read it all, and much much more.

PS IT'S A U.S. CONGRESSIONAL INSPIRED REPORT, not Michael Moore inspired "propaganda".

You'd think with all the propaganda the administration you support has been using you'd recognize the difference. But that's right, you're one of those people who can't even recongize when you've been lied to.

But I don understand why you'd use such a lame ruse to ignore the information. THERE IT IS, RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. ALL THE LIES BUSH TOLD YOU IN A NEAT .PDF FORMAT.

READ THEM AND WTFU!

 

[Steeplerot]

All this "belief" talk is sounding like battered wife syndrome, "He didn't mean it!" :laugh:

You are not BSing anyone, you may actually buy that crap but most people are not that foolish.

 

[Todd33]

No, i want proof of anything that President Bill Clinton did to intentionally mislead the world. I want witness testimony, video, audio, or documented proof, of the behind the scenes conspiracy which directly led to President Clinton getting in front of microphone to tell a blatant lie to the world.

As I said, I believe that HE believed that he did not sexual relations with Monica. That makes him honest in my eyes. End of story.

See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

Does it every cross your mind that even if they believed the intel they cherry picked that they could have spent more time to verify it? You know they didn't want inspectors back in, they were afraid they would not find anything and thus delay the war. They wanted war and used WMDs, that doesn't bother you? It sure bothers me. BTW most of the hype came from WH officials, not Bush. But I assume by Bush you also include his subordinates like Cheney and Rice?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
All this "belief" talk is sounding like battered wife syndrome, "He didn't mean it!" :laugh:

read this again and this time attempt to comprehend:

"If a man himself believes what he says based upon information given to him by those whose job it is to provide accurate data, then that man himself is not a LIAR. He still deserves criticism for making a mistake based upon the faulty data, but he himself is not to blame for the data itself."

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Todd33

No, i want proof of anything that President Bill Clinton did to intentionally mislead the world. I want witness testimony, video, audio, or documented proof, of the behind the scenes conspiracy which directly led to President Clinton getting in front of microphone to tell a blatant lie to the world.

As I said, I believe that HE believed that he did not sexual relations with Monica. That makes him honest in my eyes. End of story.

See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

Does it every cross your mind that even if they believed the intel they cherry picked that they could have spent more time to verify it? You know they didn't want inspectors back in, they were afraid they would not find anything and thus delay the war. They wanted war and used WMDs, that doesn't bother you? It sure bothers me. BTW most of the hype came from WH officials, not Bush. But I assume by Bush you also include his subordinates like Cheney and Rice?

And the kicker is...the inspectors were rigtht there on the ground in Iraq disproving Bush's lies when Bush told them they had to leave because of the danger thay would soon face since his unprovoked attack was imminent.

Talk about an imminent threat! Bush was the threat ignoring the fact there was no threat!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Todd33

No, i want proof of anything that President Bill Clinton did to intentionally mislead the world. I want witness testimony, video, audio, or documented proof, of the behind the scenes conspiracy which directly led to President Clinton getting in front of microphone to tell a blatant lie to the world.

As I said, I believe that HE believed that he did not sexual relations with Monica. That makes him honest in my eyes. End of story.

See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

Does it every cross your mind that even if they believed the intel they cherry picked that they could have spent more time to verify it? You know they didn't want inspectors back in, they were afraid they would not find anything and thus delay the war. They wanted war and used WMDs, that doesn't bother you? It sure bothers me. BTW most of the hype came from WH officials, not Bush. But I assume by Bush you also include his subordinates like Cheney and Rice?

He has the motive, the will, along with the rest of the right wingnuts who surround him, it is plain as day.

Sorry you have to make excuses like this, but please, stop, your making yourself look pretty naive.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
All this "belief" talk is sounding like battered wife syndrome, "He didn't mean it!" :laugh:

read this again and this time attempt to comprehend:

"If a man himself believes what he says based upon information given to him by those whose job it is to provide accurate data, then that man himself is not a LIAR. He still deserves criticism for making a mistake based upon the faulty data, but he himself is not to blame for the data itself."

So then Dan Rather didn't lie either, right?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Todd33
See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

umm, nobody can ever deny the fact that Bill Clinton lied to the world. After all, he admitted to doing so live in front of the world. so your point?

My point is that you cant prove that President Bush lied, yet you keep saying so. I challenged you for proof, and all you or anyone in your camp can ever provide is conjecture and personal opinions.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
All this "belief" talk is sounding like battered wife syndrome, "He didn't mean it!" :laugh:

read this again and this time attempt to comprehend:

"If a man himself believes what he says based upon information given to him by those whose job it is to provide accurate data, then that man himself is not a LIAR. He still deserves criticism for making a mistake based upon the faulty data, but he himself is not to blame for the data itself."

So then Dan Rather didn't lie either, right?

no, he did not. he made a mistake.

there is a HUGE difference that you people dont seem to understand... sometimes it almost seems that you refuse to listen to logic and reason, and therefore intentionally ignore the valid points I raise.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Todd33
See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

umm, nobody can ever deny the fact that Bill Clinton lied to the world. After all, he admitted to doing so live in front of the world. so your point?

My point is that you cant prove that President Bush lied, yet you keep saying so. I challenged you for proof, and all you or anyone in your camp can ever provide is conjecture and personal opinions.

In other words you have your fingers in your ears and would not hear a lie if he was screaming it in your face, another partisan hack....

 

[homercles337]

Follow the link in this trolls profile. He is some kid that plays on a BF2 clan. Everyone arguing with paletroll has been had! Hes probably not even old enough to enlist! In fact, he is listed as a Head Practice Coordinator and War Council Member! Sounds like paletrolls likes to play war while pretending to be a soldier and hannity, limbaugh, faux news, sheep.

 

[shira]

Is there anyone, really, who seriously believes that if we had known then what we know now that it would STILL have been a good idea to invade Iraq and/or that Congress would have authorized the invasion?

Yet here we have Bush telling us - even given what we know now - that invading was absolutely the right thing to do.

Which means either that Bush is even dumber than he appears . . . . Naaaaaaah!. Not possible!

Ooooooor, Bush is telling us something he doesn't really believe, with the intention of deceiving us. I wonder if we can come up with a short word that describes such behavior.

 

[Todd33]

I guess this fruitless, he is really looking for a speech in which says "I lied about WMD intentionally." Circumstantial evidence, no matter how much or how damning, is never going to be enough. There are still alot of people that think Nixon was honest and was setup.

BTW one of my favorites:

?We do know that there have been shipments going into . . . Iraq, for
instance, of aluminum tubes that really are only suited to ? high quality
aluminum tools that are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs,
centrifuge programs.?

Of course there was active debate by experts that these tubes were in fact not suited for centrifuge at all. So in fact she did lie outright, she said "are only suited" when in fact they were told by many experts the opposite. They presented the minority view as fact and hid the story until after the invasion. But I guess Rice said it and you can always claim she missed the memos and meeting and once again claim ignorance.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

No, i want proof of anything that President George W. Bush did to intentionally mislead the world. I want witness testimony, video, audio, or documented proof, of the behind the scenes conspiracy which directly led to President Bush getting in front of microphone to tell a blatant lie to the world.

As I said, I believe that HE believed that there were WMD's in Iraq. That makes him honest in my eyes. End of story.

The fact that those beliefs later turned out to be false, or based on faulty data, is irrelevant in terms of accusing him of lying. period.

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

Go on back to freeperville and play your Halo and Counterstrike. Leave the real debate for the adults that don't revert back to childish rhetoric.

BTW, have you read the following:
Against All Enemies
Plan of Attack
The Price of Loyalty

?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Todd33
See how easy this is? You can never prove anyone lied, you can just claim ignorance and then it's not a lie.

umm, nobody can ever deny the fact that Bill Clinton lied to the world. After all, he admitted to doing so live in front of the world. so your point?

My point is that you cant prove that President Bush lied, yet you keep saying so. I challenged you for proof, and all you or anyone in your camp can ever provide is conjecture and personal opinions.

In other words you have your fingers in your ears and would not hear a lie if he was screaming it in your face, another partisan hack....

Palehorse is beginning to remind me of someone else who wouldn't admit the facts even when they were placed right in front of him.

Palehorse, by your reasoning and in your defense of the indefensible you are saying that anyone who believes what they are saying isn't lying even if it what they are saying is proven to be completely and absolutely false.

In your world there is no such thing as a lie. Again, if the press and Bill Clinton are held to a standard of verification why don't you hold Bush to that same standard -- especially when the information he was dessemination was information he was using to take our nation to war and especially in light of the fact that the UN inspetors on the ground in Iraq were refuting Bush's claims daily?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Follow the link in this trolls profile. He is some kid that plays on a BF2 clan. Everyone arguing with paletroll has been had! Hes probably not even old enough to enlist! In fact, he is listed as a Head Practice Coordinator and War Council Member! Sounds like paletrolls likes to play war while pretending to be a soldier and hannity, limbaugh, faux news, sheep.

QFT

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
In other words you have your fingers in your ears and would not hear a lie if he was screaming it in your face, another partisan hack....

He may have lied, and I may have heard a lie... BUT, to this day, nobody has proven that to be the case. So until you can prove that he lied, I will not call him a liar.

The day that you can provide accurate and bonafied proof that he lied, I too will label him a liar.

My camp issued this challenge the first time the accusation was ever made, and we've been waiting for 3 years for proof.

Story:
Joe tells Bob that George owns a red bike.
Bob then tells the world that George owns a red bike.
Upon going to George's house, George's bike turns out to be blue.

Q: Is Bob a liar?
A: No.

Q: Did Bob make a mistake after being given inacurate information from his advisor Joe?
A: Yes.

...
get it yet?