Situation In Iraq Has Worsened

[coolkatz321]

You guys have to remember something... we're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here. OKAY, okay, I was just kidding. But I think James Carvel put it best on Crossfire before it wen't off the air- If we weren't fighting the terrorists in Iraq, what would they be doing? I think they'd be sending their kids to school, working, enjoying electricity and overrall family life. I see people like palehorse come in and go all about this crap about how we're fighting for their freedom and all that wonderful jazz... he just doesn't get it. I don't support the war, but I support our troops. I support our troops by saying that we need to get them the hell out of there. As soon as we leave Iraq it's going to be taken over by another Saddam, just let it go.

 

[aboothman]

There are better ways to "help" a country than to kill their citizens. Now tell me, if there were another larger country, and it decided to invade
the US to "help" us, how would YOU respond? I would pick up my gun and tell them to get the hell out and let me solve my own damn problems!!
This is why we were given the Right to Bear Arms by the way.

The Iraqis have no real leadership. A thing like Democracy cannot be given, it must grow, and it must have strong leadership to lead the people to it.
We removed their leader, regardless of the fact he was in truth a negative force, and now they are floundering. It is just like a big riot. How does
the US government respond? "Thems there are terrorists!! Kill em!!" In truth, they are citizens who are pissed off!!

Because of US "assistance" they are people out of work, with no leadership in their government, dead family members, and their hope for the future is
that a strong leader (or in reality another dictator) will come along and pull things together.

What does the US do? We kill their people to emphasize the point that you must accept democracy, become a capitolist economy, or DIE.

For some reason, this "conflict" always makes me think of Somalia, although I doubt the US will ever go back there. Only difference
is the people and the fact that there is oil in the gulf. MM yes, Oil, another topic entirely. Would be interesting to hear views on whether
wetruly attacked Afghanistan for Opium and Iraq for Oil

 

[palehorse]

Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

That's a nice generalization. care to back that up with...

proof? source? Links?? I want VARIFIABLE PROOF!!!



edit* sorry I don't know what came over me, I should be ashamed taking a page out of the, "freeper's guide to arguing over the internet..."

shameful

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

And your point is??

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

According to the President, only about 5%-7% of the "insurgents" come from outside Iraq. Sorry, you're wrong again.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

According to the President, only about 5%-7% of the "insurgents" come from outside Iraq. Sorry, you're wrong again.

Yep.. I used to argue this too.. but I finally realized that WE CREATED Terrorists out of normal Iraqi People

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Do any of you people pay attention to the origins of most "insurgents" and suicide bombers? well, they're not Iraqi... that's your first clue.

next.

According to the President, only about 5%-7% of the "insurgents" come from outside Iraq. Sorry, you're wrong again.

Yep.. I used to argue this too.. but I finally realized that WE CREATED Terrorists out of normal Iraqi People

But wait, Duhunan. He claims to have been to Iraq, so he must know EVERYTHING.

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Opinion polls out of Iraq show steadfast support of US policies among the Kurds, Shiite support has been steadily declining, the Sunnis on the other hand are absolutely against US policies. So the majority of Iraqis aren't taking up arms as some of you have suggested.... they are mainly carried out by the disgruntled Sunnis, which are a minority in Iraq. The Iraqis, from current projections, chose to vote on the basis of ethnicity and religion which (surprise, surprise) gave the Shiite leaders a majority of seats in the parliament which has caused the Sunnis to be further agitated.

We also all need to realize that all of Iraq isn't in chaos. There are parts of Iraq that are enjoying stability and are seeing the fruit of the reconstruction efforts. Baghdad and the surrounding areas aren't.. and thats where 99% of the news from Iraq come from. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be getting better and whoever/whatever is leading the insurgency doesn't seem to want the political process to be part of the solution. The majority of casualities are being increasingly suffered by Iraqis and are the result of insurgent activity.

I think we should give Iraq 1 more year. Let their leaders get their act together and see if the political bargaining that is going on right now help quell the insurgency. The Sunnis and most of the other minority parties have rallied behind Iyad Allawi thereby rejecting Al-Zarqawi, if they remain united they can bring a balance of power to the Shiite dominated parliament. HOPEFULLY, they can pull it off and help bring an end to the violence in Iraq. If not, well... I don't even want to think about it .

And here is a link to the opinion poll

 

[dahunan]

^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

the Koran must be rewritten... until it has been rewritten and sold by a calaphate, the Islamic world will be in constant turmoil. FANATICISM is to blame, not necessarily "religion" itself. Once they write a "New Testament" of the Koran, the progress will be much faster toward stability and common sense...

Then we can weed out all of the fanatics and bury them. problem solved.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

the Koran must be rewritten... until it has been rewritten and sold by a calaphate, the Islamic world will be in constant turmoil. FANATICISM is to blame, not necessarily "religion" itself. Once they write a "New Testament" of the Koran, the progress will be much faster toward stability and common sense...

Then we can weed out all of the fanatics and bury them. problem solved.

mmm-kay.


:roll:

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

Nopes. A good chunk of the Kurds are actually Sunni (which is why it doesn't make much sense when people say Iraq consists of Sunni, Shiites, and Kurds). So its not solely because of the Sunni/Shiite rivalry. Its more of the disinfected Baathist Sunnis that are mainly driving the insurgency IMO. The major Sunni political parties have already openly joined the political process, so it makes no sense for them to continue the insurgency... which really makes me wonder who is really driving the insurgency

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

the Bible must be rewritten... until it has been rewritten and sold by an evangelical , the fundamentalist Christian world will be in constant turmoil. FANATICISM is to blame, not necessarily "religion" itself. Once they write a "New New Testament" of the Bible, the progress will be much faster toward stability and common sense...

Then we can weed out all of the fanatics and bury them. problem solved.

Agreed.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

the Bible must be rewritten... until it has been rewritten and sold by an evangelical , the fundamentalist Christian world will be in constant turmoil. FANATICISM is to blame, not necessarily "religion" itself. Once they write a "New New Testament" of the Bible, the progress will be much faster toward stability and common sense...

Then we can weed out all of the fanatics and bury them. problem solved.

Agreed.

oh ya, because there are so many Christians beheading nonbelievers on TV and blowing themselves up. if there were, I'd suggest the same thing... but hey, thanks for casually dismissing the option I put forth that is actally being taken seriously in many circles. Rewriting the Koran IS an option, and one that may go a long way to eliminate Islamic fanaticism in the centuries to come...

 

[conjur]

taken seriously in what circles? Your "BF clan" and your freeper buddies?

:roll:

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ so it almost sounds as though religion is to blame for all the violence?

the Koran must be rewritten... until it has been rewritten and sold by a calaphate, the Islamic world will be in constant turmoil. FANATICISM is to blame, not necessarily "religion" itself. Once they write a "New Testament" of the Koran, the progress will be much faster toward stability and common sense...

Then we can weed out all of the fanatics and bury them. problem solved.

You really need to stay away from the snuf films

 

[tommywishbone]

I'll call my agent and get started on the re-write ASAP. We'll do lunch tomorrow at The Grill and discuss my fee. Love ya...

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: palehorse74


oh ya, because there are so many Christians beheading nonbelievers on TV and blowing themselves up. if there were, I'd suggest the same thing... but hey, thanks for casually dismissing the option I put forth that is actally being taken seriously in many circles. Rewriting the Koran IS an option, and one that may go a long way to eliminate Islamic fanaticism in the centuries to come...

Pal, there have been a lot of Christians beheading Iraqis for almost three years now. Only instead of a dull sword they're using ordnance. If you're really lucky they let you keep your head and just melt your entire person with chemical weapons.

Use any of those during your tours? Find any WMD other than your own?

:laugh:

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: BBond
BTW, thanks to George W. Bush and his entire administration America just blew past another milestone in Iraq.

2,110

And all for a lie.

Only an idiot counts numbers of human lives as a "milestone"

Again, people die in war, we get it.

Only an idiot sends people to war based on a lie when they know that "Again, people die in war, we get it" -- if you get it how can you excuse Bush for knowingly and maliciously causing the deaths of NOW 2,208 American troops along with tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians?

People die in wars is your attempt to avoid the whole truth.

When will you really get it?

 

[BBond]

Check this out. Now the Iraqi Interior Ministry is being targeted by bombers carrying "genuine" high security police passes!

And check out the last paragraph!!! Hasn't The Liar always told the American people, dozens if not hundreds of times since he began this disaster, that the commanders in the field have ALWAYS been given the troops they requested???

Suicide bombers attack Iraq's interior ministry

By Kim Sengupta
Published: 10 January 2006

Suicide bombers carrying the credentials of senior police walked into the interior ministry in Baghdad yesterday and killed at least 28 people.

The attack came as the US ambassador and Iraq's Interior and Defence ministers attended a nearby ceremony to mark National Police Day in the city centre. The two blasts were followed by mortar rounds. The ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, the Interior Minister, Bayan Jabr, and the Defence Minister, Sadoun al-Dulaimi, heard the explosions as they watched a march by members of the security forces.

The building has become a symbolic target for Sunni insurgents, with the interior ministry accused of running Shia paramilitary death squads responsible for the torture and murder of suspects. Mr Jabr, a former commander of the Badr Brigade, a Shia militia, and whose sister was kidnapped last week, has been linked with the group ­ claims he strongly denies.

One of the suicide bombers wore the uniform of a police lieutenant-colonel and the other that of a major. Both had security passes which allowed them through the main checkpoint. But a police guard became suspicious of one of the men's top-heavy clothing and, after challenging him, opened fire, detonating the explosives packed into his vest. At that point, the second bomber blew himself up.

More than 20 people were wounded, few of whom were expected to survive. The casualties were almost all policemen.

"The guards had been taught to shoot at suspected suicide bombers on the head, but this time one of the bombers was shot in the chest and his bomb went off," said a senior police officer. "But much more worrying is the fact that the men had genuine high-security police passes and could get into a building such as this."

In a separate development yesterday US soldiers raided the offices of the Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars in Baghdad. Explosives were used to blow open doors. The Iraqi Accordance Front, the main Sunni political coalition, urged its followers to demonstrate against the "sinful assault".

Meanwhile in the US, the Pentagon acknowledged that the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, turned down a request in May 2004 from Paul Bremer, the US diplomat governing Iraq at the time, for hundreds of thousands more US troops during a particularly violent period in the war. April 2004, the month before Mr Bremer made his request, was the deadliest of the war to date for US forces.

Bush is POTUS minus the T and the U.

What a lying POS.

That's funny, you can't spell TRUTH without T and U either.

 

[BBond]

Does this sound like the actions of a "liberator" bringing "freedom and democracy"???

First Bush uses WMD as an excuse to invade Iraq, then after he couldn't find any in Iraq becuase just as the UN inspectors were telling him -- THERE WAS NONE, he brought his own to use on Iraqis, then after he switches to some lame excuse about "freedom and democracy"he pays the press to run propaganda, now he's using goon squads to silence the press when they are investigating the corruption of his occupation!!!

This whole fiasco is beginning to sound like some droll sitcom. Please make him stop now. The embarassment alone should be enough to make Americans demand that he stop.

Is there one person left who isn't completely repulsed by the lies and hypocrisy Bush is defaming America with by repeatedly using them in her name?

US troops seize award-winning Iraqi journalist

Monday January 9, 2006
The Guardian

American troops in Baghdad yesterday blasted their way into the home of an Iraqi journalist working for the Guardian and Channel 4, firing bullets into the bedroom where he was sleeping with his wife and children.

Ali Fadhil, who two months ago won the Foreign Press Association young journalist of the year award, was hooded and taken for questioning. He was released hours later.

Dr Fadhil is working with Guardian Films on an investigation for Channel 4's Dispatches programme into claims that tens of millions of dollars worth of Iraqi funds held by the Americans and British have been misused or misappropriated.

The troops told Dr Fadhil that they were looking for an Iraqi insurgent and seized video tapes he had shot for the programme. These have not yet been returned.

The director of the film, Callum Macrae, said yesterday: "The timing and nature of this raid is extremely disturbing. It is only a few days since we first approached the US authorities and told them Ali was doing this investigation, and asked them then to grant him an interview about our findings.

"We need a convincing assurance from the American authorities that this terrifying experience was not harassment and a crude attempt to discourage Ali's investigation."

Dr Fadhil was asleep with his wife, their three-year-old daughter, Sarah, and seven-month-old son, Adam, when the troops forced their way in.

"They fired into the bedroom where we were sleeping, then three soldiers came in. They rolled me on to the floor and tied my hands. When I tried to ask them what they were looking for they just told me to shut up," he said.

If this and the rest of what we've witnessed in Iraq for almost three years now is what Bush considers "freedom and democracy" then I would submit that the Iraqi people were no worse off under Saddam. As a matter of fact they were probably better off under Saddam than they are under Bush.

 

[conjur]

I created a thread on Dr. Fadhil.

Pretty damn disgusting that our troops are being used as mafia-style thugs to protect the Propagandist's lies.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: BBond
BTW, thanks to George W. Bush and his entire administration America just blew past another milestone in Iraq.

2,110

And all for a lie.

Only an idiot counts numbers of human lives as a "milestone"

Again, people die in war, we get it.

Only an idiot sends people to war based on a lie when they know that "Again, people die in war, we get it" -- if you get it how can you excuse Bush for knowingly and maliciously causing the deaths of NOW 2,208 American troops along with tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians?

People die in wars is your attempt to avoid the whole truth.

When will you really get it?

Because iraqs regime, threat or no, was an enemy to the united states.

You focus on the bad intelligence, i focus on what was really going on.

 

[conjur]

If it wasn't a threat, how could it be an enemy? Esp. one worthy of being invaded and occupied.