Socket conundrum: 1366 vs. AM3

[src1425]

I know this touches on discussions in other threads, but I want to make sure I understand things correctly. I only upgrade boards every 5 years or so, with an interim CPU upgrade if necessary for moderate gaming and general productivity. I've ruled out 1156, since it seems to have the shortest lifespan and, by extension, the most limited CPU upgrade options.

Looking at 1366 options, it seems I could get an i7-930 from MicroCenter for $200 and a decent X58 board for about $200. But is 1366 also going to be replaced next year, and what sort of upgrade options would I have in 3 years? Is the i7-980X Extreme the end of the road for 1366?

On the AM3 side, I could get an X4 965 BE for about $180 or an X6 1055T for about $200, with a decent board for about $150. Is the X6 1090T the end of the line for AM3, or is Bulldozer possibly an option?

I guess I'm wrestling with the decision to either get as much CPU as I can now in hopes of it lasting 5 years, accepting that I probably won't be able to upgrade it, or picking a board with the best upgrade options.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice.

 

[Markfw]

Decent boards for AM3 are under $100. A TOP end board is more like $150.

So its like $400 vs $300. Who knows how long any socket will last, but from what I see, 1366 will be dead in a year. AM3 ??

 

[classy]

I think I read somewhere that Bulldozer will be compatiable with 890 boards.

 

[Idontcare]

I guess I'm wrestling with the decision to either get as much CPU as I can now in hopes of it lasting 5 years, accepting that I probably won't be able to upgrade it, or picking a board with the best upgrade options.

I'm in the same upgrade boat.

Got an aging Q6600/DDR2 rig here that I'd really like to update sooner instead of later but at the same time if my choices are "upgrade to a planned obsolete Intel platform" vs. "upgrade to a middle-of-life AM3 platform" then I'd choose AMD just to have the option (may not exercise it though) of having my next upgrade potentially be a little cheaper than otherwise.

I think I read somewhere that Bulldozer will be compatiable with 890 boards.

checkout http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29752062&postcount=8

 

[Edgy]

AMD's been historically better than Intel for cases like yours (like the Thubans requiring mere BIOS flash on most existing MBs within last generation or so) but NOT 5 years...

And who knows how long and how well the future generation sockets from AMD/Intel will be managed.

Next Intel Socket for Sandy Bridge and next AMD socket for Bulldozer will probably launch within about a year from now and within about a year of each other so you'll have to determine if you want to wait for that. If I was waiting, I would go with AMD based on historical experience.

If cannot wait, then Socket AM3 new generation board is likely (don't think it is 100% confirmed yet but I think it was in their CPU roadmap at some point) to be compatible with MB BIOS flash when first generation Bulldozer launches so that would be the way to go. Intel's SandyBridge is confirmed to be on a different socket so current Intel MBs would definitely not fit your needs.

Either way - neither AMD or Intel sockets are gonna last you 5 years unfortunately.

Just looking at AMD, they've gone through sockets 939, AM2, AM2+, and AM3 on desktop products within last 5 years (granted there were some inter-compatibility for AM2/AM2+/AM3 in there).

 

[Phil1977]

You should also look at socket 1156 and i5 750 / i7 860.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You should also look at socket 1156 and i5 750 / i7 860.

I don't think you understand. The OP wants a platform that is going to be around for 5 years, allowing a future CPU upgrade. 1156 is already along the path of planned obsolesence, it's getting axed next year, for 1155 (incompatible).

 

[Phil1977]

So is socket 1366.

Intel changes things with every new cpu. Sandy bridge will have new sockets / chipsets for both enthusiast and mainstream. So 1366 and 1156 won't be around for long.

Knowing that you should pick the mainstream platform, as it's better value. Thats why I mentioned a S1156 system.

Buying 1366 now is silly. If you chose intel vs AMD compare 1156 with AM3.

 

[lopri]

Ideally there should be no technical reason (read: financially-motivated reasons will always be there) not to maintain compatibility when no new memory technology is on the horizon beyond DDR3. But I think S1156 is more susceptible (than S1366) to incompatibility in the future for couple of reasons.

First, Intel will eventually want to move its whole line-ups to 32nm process. S1366 has already undergone that process but S1156 has not. When 32nm mainstream products arrive, I suspect Intel will introduce new chipset to go along with them. The physical number of pins may still be 1156, but for that kind of transitions Intel usually make just enough changes to force/motivate upgrades.

Second, Lynnfield's PCIe configuration is too limiting. Right now Lynnfield doesn't leave any room for other PCIe devices than graphics cards. It's good enough for mainstream usage, but that could change in the future (SSD, USB 3.0, etc.). If Intel decides to increase more PCIe lanes in Sandy Bridge, existing S1156 boards will, obviously, not be compatible. (And I haven't heard of any upcoming 32nm products with built-in PCIe)

Edit: For some reason I thought the thread was about S1366 v. S1156.

 

[mbevolution]

what will be amd's new socket for llano? i have a feeling that that will last at least a few years.

 

[busydude]

what will be amd's new socket for llano? i have a feeling that that will last at least a few years.

llano is referred to as an APU and this is meant for notebooks, so I guess the socket doesn't matter.

 

[Fox5]

There's a good chance bulldozer will work in AM3.

BTW, I think there are some old AM2 motherboards (not AM2+) that will work with AMD's Phenom II quad cores. That's going all the way back to 2005/2006, you might even get a hexcore in if you're lucky, but I think that was before motherboards were built for 125W cpus. Fusion apus will probably require a new socket, but perhaps AMD will keep AM3 around for some time.

 

[gaidensensei]

How about sell all your expensive parts, downgrade to a cheap 775 rig for the time being until the roadmap is stabilized?

It's one of the reasons I recently built a system for less than $100 - E3300, 4gb ddr2, g31 775 and it handles all office environment applications nicely, comparative with an upper c2d 775. Sans intensive stuff like architectural rendering of course.

In 2005, the economy was different, wasn't that back during the AMD 64 takeoff, and probably around Radeon X1xxx series?

Fast forward 5 years to today, you can pay a fraction of what you paid for triple or more the performance just from one of the lower end builds.

Heck, if you're on a 939 single core you can upgrade to dual 939 (I think 4800+ or FX-60 are the highest) and gain probably 2-3x worth of processor performance.

 

[src1425]

How about sell all your expensive parts, downgrade to a cheap 775 rig for the time being until the roadmap is stabilized?

Just so you know where I'm starting, I'm currently running an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ with 4 GB RAM and an HD 4850, so I upgraded a few parts from my original build 5 years ago. But despite periodic system wipes and reloads it's feeling sluggish and some games, such as The Witcher and DAO, would occasionally lag. Could I hold out another year if I had to? Sure. But I've crossed that point where it's become an annoyance, and I figure at any point I rebuild there's always going to be some sort of reason to just wait a bit longer for something better. And hey, the wife signed off on a rebuild, so I have to take my opportunities as they come!

 

[hans007]

There's a good chance bulldozer will work in AM3.

BTW, I think there are some old AM2 motherboards (not AM2+) that will work with AMD's Phenom II quad cores. That's going all the way back to 2005/2006, you might even get a hexcore in if you're lucky, but I think that was before motherboards were built for 125W cpus. Fusion apus will probably require a new socket, but perhaps AMD will keep AM3 around for some time.

I think amd can keep it around for quite a while since the bus is the same. hypertransport has been quite extensible. the only reason it seems they'd put out a new socket is if they wanted say more than dual channel ram which might be an issue with something like bulldozer if it needs the bandwidth.


some AM2 boards from really early on were only designed for 89W cpus so I think not every board will support thuban. but there is a 95W thuban (and there are a lot of 95W only boards out there) . AM2 boards seem to need something like 110W actually for am3 cpus as they do not support the dual plane voltage which is why a lot of really old AM2 boards don't get the upgrades.

 

[Martimus]

As shown here, Bulldozer is planned to be launched on the AM3 socket in 2011.

 

[Sylvanas]

Indeed an 890fx/gx based board and a Thuban is a killer bundle with room to stretch to include Bulldozer in future. Really, according to Intel road maps, there is going to be a change each generation. AMD is clearly the winner here in terms of longevity from a single socket (remember the 'old' Athlon X2's still work with the latest AM2+ DDR2 boards).

 

[gaidensensei]

Just so you know where I'm starting, I'm currently running an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ with 4 GB RAM and an HD 4850, so I upgraded a few parts from my original build 5 years ago.

Hmm.. You could sell off some of that stuff for a down payment towards something like an used Q6600 + cheap motherboard. That shouldn't run more than $130-150 after selling your X2 CPU+MB separately.

That Q6600 should hold you more than over enough until the next roadmap of Intel products comes out.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

I know this touches on discussions in other threads, but I want to make sure I understand things correctly. I only upgrade boards every 5 years or so, with an interim CPU upgrade if necessary for moderate gaming and general productivity. I've ruled out 1156, since it seems to have the shortest lifespan and, by extension, the most limited CPU upgrade options.

Looking at 1366 options, it seems I could get an i7-930 from MicroCenter for $200 and a decent X58 board for about $200. But is 1366 also going to be replaced next year, and what sort of upgrade options would I have in 3 years? Is the i7-980X Extreme the end of the road for 1366?

On the AM3 side, I could get an X4 965 BE for about $180 or an X6 1055T for about $200, with a decent board for about $150. Is the X6 1090T the end of the line for AM3, or is Bulldozer possibly an option?

I guess I'm wrestling with the decision to either get as much CPU as I can now in hopes of it lasting 5 years, accepting that I probably won't be able to upgrade it, or picking a board with the best upgrade options.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice.

INTEL>AMD its that simple. dont worry about the socket. computers are priced to be replaced every 6 months anyway.

"what sort of upgrade options would I have in 3 years?"
"I guess I'm wrestling with the decision to either get as much CPU as I can now in hopes of it lasting 5 years"

youre really going to want to be trying to upgrade this five years from now when 10 ghz 25 core chips are available for $100??

 

[Daedalus685]

INTEL>AMD its that simple. dont worry about the socket. computers are priced to be replaced every 6 months anyway.

"what sort of upgrade options would I have in 3 years?"
"I guess I'm wrestling with the decision to either get as much CPU as I can now in hopes of it lasting 5 years"

youre really going to want to be trying to upgrade this five years from now when 10 ghz 25 core chips are available for $100??

Wow.....

Just....

Wow.....


He doesn't want to upgrade it with a new cpu in 5 years... he wants to be able to have the board last with the possibility of a midterm cpu over the next 5 years... Also, stop trolling troll.

 

[Edgy]

OP - your system is actually still usable for your use toward "moderate gaming" & "general productivity" - maybe not great but usable.

I suggest new 890 MBs for AMD Socket AM3 if you buy now - this will likely let you use most if not all 2011 AMD CPUs if you want and likely many of 2012 and even some 2013.

If you want to wait, I would suggest waiting for socket 2011 - I don't think Intel will have too many other things to incorporate into the CPU die (entire NB is being designed onto the CPU die I think) so that factor may make this socket a decent bet that it will be long-lived.

But then again it's Intel who's gonna replace current socket 1156 with new and incompatible socket 1155 next year (1 pin? are you freakin kidding me?).

There's no official new socket announced for AMD desktop through 2011 but I am fairly sure a new one will launch around similar timeframe as Intel's new sockets.

What I don't know is if new socket will be backwards compatible & will current socket AM3 will be forwards compatible with new CPUs designed for AMD's new socket. In other words, will the new socket be an AM3+ (like AM2+ was to AM2 in terms of compatibility) or a new incompatible re-design.

I think I read a roadmap somewhere that showed Socket AM3 rev2 which to me seems like an AM3+ instead of a total redesign.

If I'm right, then buying the 890 series socket AM3 board now is probably best choice on AMD side and hope future CPUs will be BIOS flash away from drop in compatibility.

Additionally - AMD MBs are cheaper (unless you're NEED high end boards) and feature-rich even for budget boards (my last 3 builds were with $40-$80 boards). So if you find you want new board before your 5 years period, it'll cost you less to invest now and also to replace later.

 

[richierich1212]

OBLAMA go away troll

 

[Obsoleet]

This is an easy one. AM3 all the way. I will NOT build anyone a rig that is Intel until they get native SATA and full bandwidth PCIE lanes like AMD's platform. That, and the socket changes on Intel are asinine. 1156 and 1366 are both almost as dead as my 775 is. The i7 860 is it, for good, for the 1156.

Now, Im relatively unbiased. But I'm never afraid to use AMD. For 90% of users today they are the best choice when you compare all the details.

I would not build myself an Intel rig today, nor build anyone else one. Only AMD. They run fine. Get yourself a 955/965 or 6core and enjoy your life with a platform that's at least partially up to date.

Intel is dragging their feet on updating their chipsets to promote LightPeak, don't reward them, their stuff isn't that much better, and you pay for it regardless.

 

[eddyg17]

Why not do both?
I am in the same boat as you, I have a 6year old computer that can no longer be upgraded so I am planing on spending 1000 to 1500 dollars on a cheap computer to last me 1 to 2 years. Meanwhile I'll keep saving money as I have had and by Q3 2010 I should have ~3000 dollars to spend in a new rig and jump onto the 2011 socket bandwagon early in the game.

 

[Face2Face]

AM3 All the way!! Intel's ever changing sockets is just plain annoying...