Software Development vs. Networking

[crabbyman]

I already have a bachelor's of science degree from Ohio State University. Needless to say the area I specialized is not something I want to pursue anymore. So I decided to start using the companys tuition reimbursement policy to go back and take some night classes for something computer related.

I am always the guy that gets called from computer help no matter where I am at. Sometimes I get the call before the IT department does. Since computer fields are still in need and growing, I might persure a field in one of the two programs offered locally at the tech college.

My IT guy said that software people are usually more loners and have a higher nerdy sort of language to them and that anything hardware related will have you interacting with people more and more hands on. So far that is my only basis on decision...I need interaction and relationships with co-workers or it goes dry and bland.


What are the pros/cons of each? Help me choose oh wise ones!

 

[DaiShan]

Take classes in both, see which you like more. Hardware is more hands on only if you are in a tech support position. I used to like doing tech support because I got to meet so many people + chit chat while I was working. Network engineering or administration you don't really deal with people, you just make sure things are operational. More likely than not if something goes wrong you'll get a page from something like a nagios server and you'll go fix it without ever hearing from an actual person. Programming you'll have a project manager who tells you which part of the project you are to work on and you go at it.

 

[her209]

Networking is the way to go. Why? Because a company can't outsource it to India.

 

[torpid]

Networking is booooring and unless you are above grunt level it is extremely low skilled work. I had a job where it was my primary duty. I hated it so much that any future job where they asked me to do any network type stuff really irritated me. Software development is a lot more dynamic and social in that a good developer must interact with a community in order to improve their knowledge and skills.

 

[robphelan]

networking is kinda boring.

i'm a programmer - it's extremely satisfying to see your work used by others.

it helps to be creative because there's always more than 1 way to do something.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: torpid
Networking is booooring and unless you are above grunt level it is extremely low skilled work. I had a job where it was my primary duty. I hated it so much that any future job where they asked me to do any network type stuff really irritated me. Software development is a lot more dynamic and social in that a good developer must interact with a community in order to improve their knowledge and skills.

What kind of "low skilled" duties were you performing?

 

[FoBoT]

Software development is the primary target for off shoring

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: her209
What kind of "low skilled" duties were you performing?

Plugging cables in, rebooting routers, explaining to customers how to set their TCP/IP settings, even WAP and port blocking is pretty lowe skilled. Basically anything a grunt network guy does. If your job can be replaced by a robot that reads a manual aloud, then it is pretty boring.

 

[mugs]

I enjoy software development more.

And I believe there is some evidence that the offshoring trend is reversing, because companies are realizing it doesn't save them as much as they thought.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: mugs
I enjoy software development more.

And I believe there is some evidence that the offshoring trend is reversing, because companies are realizing it doesn't save them as much as they thought.

I also think it is exaggerated. There are many industries where offshoring is not an option. There will always be a market for talented developers. It's the untalented ones that are getting dumped by offshoring.

 

[Descartes]

"Networking" is profoundly boring, and there is a very low ceiling on your earning potential.

Software development gives you the ultimate creative freedom. You have the choice between code monkey, entrepreneur, and everything in between. Those that claim offshoring is a problem don't know what they are talking about and never have; they say the same thing in every single thread. Offshoring has been a problem as long as I've been in the business, yet I am every other talented developer I know has made an incredible income over the past decade, and it's only getting better.

Networking == banal, limit on earning potential, and dealing with the capriciousness of end-users.
Development == creative, no limit on earning potential, and if you enjoy it it's incredibly satisfying.

 

[KB]

The trend of offshoring isn't as dire as some think. Good business-oriented developers are of great importance to the success of a project. A business developer has to be able to understand the business they are in and how to succeed in it. They need to know how computers/software can automate and help a business and they need to map processes to the proper software tool. This is best done hands-on and face-to-face, not something that is easy to do when you work on the other side of the globe and in a much different time-zone. This is ever more diffiult now since business processes change quickly in a dynamic industry.

As far as which to go into? Do you like math, then you will probably like programming more. If not go into networking.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: mugs
I enjoy software development more.

And I believe there is some evidence that the offshoring trend is reversing, because companies are realizing it doesn't save them as much as they thought.

I also think it is exaggerated. There are many industries where offshoring is not an option. There will always be a market for talented developers. It's the untalented ones that are getting dumped by offshoring.

Precisely, and that's no different now than it was a decade ago. I remember the same talk when they were shipping in (and out) offshore talent during the dot com nonsense. Same problem, different time. After the burst the talented were still left, and the increase in demand for technology projects ushers in the same notion/concern for outsourcing. In the end, the talented will still be here.

Other industries experience the same cyclical trend. I think nursing is a prime example.

 

[crabbyman]

Originally posted by: KB
The trend of offshoring isn't as dire as some think. Good business-oriented developers are of great importance to the success of a project. A business developer has to be able to understand the business they are in and how to succeed in it. They need to know how computers/software can automate and help a business and they need to map processes to the proper software tool. This is best done hands-on and face-to-face, not something that is easy to do when you work on the other side of the globe and in a much different time-zone. This is ever more diffiult now since business processes change quickly in a dynamic industry.

As far as which to go into? Do you like math, then you will probably like programming more. If not go into networking.

I'm good at math and like it...until it gets to logic statements (IF, NOR, AND...) but I am slowly warming up to them as I learn more Excel.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: DaiShan
Take classes in both, see which you like more.

 

[kosstamogen]

Originally posted by: KB
The trend of offshoring isn't as dire as some think. Good business-oriented developers are of great importance to the success of a project. A business developer has to be able to understand the business they are in and how to succeed in it. They need to know how computers/software can automate and help a business and they need to map processes to the proper software tool. This is best done hands-on and face-to-face, not something that is easy to do when you work on the other side of the globe and in a much different time-zone. This is ever more diffiult now since business processes change quickly in a dynamic industry.

As far as which to go into? Do you like math, then you will probably like programming more. If not go into networking.

No offense, but I hated math but I still enjoy programming. I think its maybe the logic of breaking down a problem and solving it, I dunno. Also I don't think any has mentioned the many different types of programming all using very different technologies. I mean hey you could be a network programmer or you could be a game programmer and everything in between. Also I definitely think the pay ceiling is a lot higher as a programmer. This is from a programmers perspective though but most sysadmin/lan admins I knew don't get paid as much.

As far as binary arithmetic, I've almost never had an occasion to use it as application dev is usually pretty high level. I think you need binary stuff more in low level stuff or embedded systems.

 

[Tsaico]

I would vote for networking also. And there is much more to it then is listed here. I will admit that I am a poor creative mind, so perhaps that is why I could not succeed as a programmer, but creating a network, both physical and virtual is a little more involved than just plugging in a box.

I would say try this, make a web site. Now publish that web site from your home box. If you find more joy in getting people from the outside world hitting your home computer than you did making the website, you are a good shot for networking. (And you cannot just use a client and free dynamic dns)

And don't forget, there is also the engineer side, that does hardware programming, perhaps you will be the next mind to create the next pentium or athlon. As for the pay, it is hard to say. Riverside city pays their network guys (though technically infrastructure, since they are responsible for the databases and back up too) are at about 90k-180k. This is assuming BS in comp field, and 5-10 years experience. Which is a little more thant what my company pays our programmers that we have in house.

I do think that the starters grunt level software is a little more rewarding. As you see people using your product. In networking, it is expected to work this way so no one cares. As for time invested at work, it is also hard to say, as a network guy, if my DNS, email, and internet is resolving and working as expected, I just sit here. If they are not, I stay until they do... The software guys that I know usually have a project environment, where as long as they get x accomplished by x date, their boss doesn't care if they spend 5 hours at the office or spent 10 hours at home coding. But if you are good at what you do, then either one you will make a decent living.

(but I will also put this out, as a software creator, you have the infinite potential to create something no has before, and that everyone needs, and if you retain the license for that said software, you could also be the next Bill Gates. But for this question, I assumed you would be a good to great worker, not the 1 in a trillion programmer)

 

[crabbyman]

It is interesting seeing peoples reactions to each other on their personal choices...


When people say "don't get paid much" what do you mean by that?

Considering I have a job with a county entity...anything is better than what I am making now!

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: crabbyman

Originally posted by: KB
The trend of offshoring isn't as dire as some think. Good business-oriented developers are of great importance to the success of a project. A business developer has to be able to understand the business they are in and how to succeed in it. They need to know how computers/software can automate and help a business and they need to map processes to the proper software tool. This is best done hands-on and face-to-face, not something that is easy to do when you work on the other side of the globe and in a much different time-zone. This is ever more diffiult now since business processes change quickly in a dynamic industry.

As far as which to go into? Do you like math, then you will probably like programming more. If not go into networking.

I'm good at math and like it...until it gets to logic statements (IF, NOR, AND...) but I am slowly warming up to them as I learn more Excel.

Are you good at logics and predicate calculus. How about differential equations? All highly important to gauge how good you are at programming. Are you good at chess, weichi (Go), soduko...? All of these require complex logic and a fascination with puzzles. Most theoretical mathematicians love these games, so do programmers... If you are good at this stuff, then consider programming as an option, otherwise networking is very hands on. Do you enjoy the feeling of finishing a project, more than the dull ache of debugging for hours on end? Developers who develop business side application, in house programs to fit the need of the customer(s) -- who design from scratch, are very hands on. Most other programmers, embedded systems programmers, tend to work in large conglomerate groups (which is fun in a different way because you work with peers), and you spend less time with the end user. The analyst in your group does more end user stuff.

For Networking, a lot of it will consist of troubleshooting and setting networks up securely. You check network traffic and get called when things are slow. You are much more hands on in Networking, and there is a constant push to update networks to the latest protocols. At least in fast paced companies.

(Don't make this decision lightly or on a whim) My graduating class about 40% got kicked out of the program within the first year at school, and 70% failed out of one class. They changed the curriculum after that year.

**EDIT**
Oh and "Tech College" sound conspicuous. If you take programming at DeVry or something like that, don't expect to get into any real difficult programming. You may learn VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) which is a scripting language for the Microsoft Office package. It is useful, but it isn't real hard programming. It will definitely help though in understanding the syntax of Visual Basic .NET (which will push you toward using C#).

On the other hand Networking is more hands on at a tech college and you will learn more work material there.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
Software development is the primary target for off shoring

QFT

IBM is already getting oversees Indians to do most of there programming, and trust me these guys are geniouses when it comes to programming. Mostly because they start at a Technical college that solely teaches them programming from a young age, so they are highly skilled at what they do. My friend is part of one programming group at IBM, and he says the oversees Indians in his group are crazy good at programming.

*********************

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: mugs
I enjoy software development more.

And I believe there is some evidence that the offshoring trend is reversing, because companies are realizing it doesn't save them as much as they thought.

I also think it is exaggerated. There are many industries where offshoring is not an option. There will always be a market for talented developers. It's the untalented ones that are getting dumped by offshoring.

for the most part code monkeys oversees, but because there are so many people oversees who are doing this now, there are a huge number of them that are really, really good, and companies will sponsor them to work in the US. A lot of them are taking coding jobs here, but it then becomes an issue for US programmers to have more interaction skills with the end users (meaning it is easier for American born to move up to managerial)

 

[TXHokie]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: her209
What kind of "low skilled" duties were you performing?

Plugging cables in, rebooting routers, explaining to customers how to set their TCP/IP settings, even WAP and port blocking is pretty lowe skilled. Basically anything a grunt network guy does. If your job can be replaced by a robot that reads a manual aloud, then it is pretty boring.

That is oversimplifying a networking job. The path you take can turn into many other possibility. You may start out with the grunt job above but there are other promotion paths you can take and the good thing about networking is your job can be very diverse.
You may start out with desktop support doing the above "low skilled" functions, then you can move to server support where you may be expected to fine tune network and application performance that will require more skill. You definitely start to get more into the hardware spec aspects and get to play with more nifty high end toys (NAS, SANS, routers, etc.). At this point you may get more into the project management phase and may need to decide to go IT management or stay technical depending on what you like. From here on you may also decide which networking field you may want to go such as pure networking with planning and implementing large enterprise IP networks, server/application deployment projects, network security where you will be expected to deploy and secure the network from external attacks. There are many satisfying aspect to networking and it's very hands on. It's definitely not as dead-end as the post above sounds and you can end up getting paid handsomely down the line. Of course it's really depend on what you like. I was in the same decision making mode a while back and as much fun as programming may be, it wasn't for me. I'm in the network security field now but I can still get my programming fix since you probably will be expected to do a lot of scripting during your networking career also to automate many things (yeah not real programming but does use some logic).

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: TXHokie

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: her209
What kind of "low skilled" duties were you performing?

Plugging cables in, rebooting routers, explaining to customers how to set their TCP/IP settings, even WAP and port blocking is pretty lowe skilled. Basically anything a grunt network guy does. If your job can be replaced by a robot that reads a manual aloud, then it is pretty boring.

That is oversimplifying a networking job. The path you take can turn into many other possibility. You may start out with the grunt job above but there are other promotion paths you can take and the good thing about networking is your job can be very diverse.
You may start out with desktop support doing the above "low skilled" functions, then you can move to server support where you may be expected to fine tune network and application performance that will require more skill. You definitely start to get more into the hardware spec aspects and get to play with more nifty high end toys (NAS, SANS, routers, etc.). At this point you may get more into the project management phase and may need to decide to go IT management or stay technical depending on what you like. From here on you may also decide which networking field you may want to go such as pure networking with planning and implementing large enterprise IP networks, server/application deployment projects, network security where you will be expected to deploy and secure the network from external attacks. There are many satisfying aspect to networking and it's very hands on. It's definitely not as dead-end as the post above sounds and you can end up getting paid handsomely down the line. Of course it's really depend on what you like. I was in the same decision making mode a while back and as much fun as programming may be, it wasn't for me. I'm in the network security field now but I can still get my programming fix since you probably will be expected to do a lot of scripting during your networking career also to automate many things (yeah not real programming but does use some logic).

QFT... some Networking Stuff is quite cool. I have much respect for some of the stuff they learn to do. Although not complex, it requires time and commitment to learn new protocols...

**EDIT**
Actually Security can become quite complex depending on the needs of the company, but then it starts to delve into programming as well.

 

[beyonddc]

Software development is much more fun than doing networking.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: TXHokie

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: her209
What kind of "low skilled" duties were you performing?

Plugging cables in, rebooting routers, explaining to customers how to set their TCP/IP settings, even WAP and port blocking is pretty lowe skilled. Basically anything a grunt network guy does. If your job can be replaced by a robot that reads a manual aloud, then it is pretty boring.

That is oversimplifying a networking job. The path you take can turn into many other possibility. You may start out with the grunt job above but there are other promotion paths you can take and the good thing about networking is your job can be very diverse.
You may start out with desktop support doing the above "low skilled" functions, then you can move to server support where you may be expected to fine tune network and application performance that will require more skill. You definitely start to get more into the hardware spec aspects and get to play with more nifty high end toys (NAS, SANS, routers, etc.). At this point you may get more into the project management phase and may need to decide to go IT management or stay technical depending on what you like. From here on you may also decide which networking field you may want to go such as pure networking with planning and implementing large enterprise IP networks, server/application deployment projects, network security where you will be expected to deploy and secure the network from external attacks. There are many satisfying aspect to networking and it's very hands on. It's definitely not as dead-end as the post above sounds and you can end up getting paid handsomely down the line. Of course it's really depend on what you like. I was in the same decision making mode a while back and as much fun as programming may be, it wasn't for me. I'm in the network security field now but I can still get my programming fix since you probably will be expected to do a lot of scripting during your networking career also to automate many things (yeah not real programming but does use some logic).

First off, I was describing my own job and not what one does in general. Secondly, i already acknowledged that being above grunt level in networking is more fun. However, many people never make it above grunt level as a programmer or networking guy. I find higher level programming positions even mroe enjoyable than a higher level networking position, but the bigger factor is still the grunt level which is excruciatingly mundane as a network guy.

As far as offshoring goes, it's true, people are now being imported from overseas. But the fact still remains, if you are good at what you do, you will always have a job opportunity. There are a lot of companies that won't sponsor visas or offshore. Those go to us americans generally. And you still can compete for the positions where they will sponsor visas. Usually you will have an advantage because of your communication skills and experience. If you are willing to accept lower pay and being treated like a mule, you can win those jobs easily.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: FoBoT
Software development is the primary target for off shoring

QFT

IBM is already getting oversees Indians to do most of there programming, and trust me these guys are geniouses when it comes to programming. Mostly because they start at a Technical college that solely teaches them programming from a young age, so they are highly skilled at what they do. My friend is part of one programming group at IBM, and he says the oversees Indians in his group are crazy good at programming.

Are you going off actual experience and frequent interaction with these workers, because I'll tell you, my experiences and those of my colleagues definitely doesn't support what you're saying.

I should preface this by saying that I know many talented Indian developers, and many of them are close personal friends. One of my good friends is also one of the more talented architects/developers I've ever met, and he's Indian; he was educated in the US, however. Every project I've been on since ~1997 has had at least a couple of Indian developers, some H1B some not, and all of the larger projects have some offshore component to them.

The notion that all Indian programmers are somehow exceptionally talented/genius is a farce. It's an issue of numbers. Of course those that come here are going to be some of your better talent, becuase otherwise they wouldn't be here. Once you start seeing the product of offshore work you start seeing the poor level of quality that you expect from cheap(er) labor. It's no different than it is here in America, and it's more of an issue of productivity (offshoring can facilitate 24/7 work), cost, and simply finding work.

I work with about 30 H1Bs on a project of over 100 right now, and I lead a first release framework effort that included Russians, Americans, Indians, a Cuban, and even a Venezuelan. I lead an effort for a client with Hexaware doing the actual development as well. I won't hesitate to say that the quality of work from the Russians and Americans (myself included) far, far exceeded the quality of any other group. Communication is part of the problem, but most Indian developers I know have a bit of a heuristic approach to programming; they simply keep hammering at it until it works without concern for the overall quality of their individual work.

[edit]Obviously this is just my opinion, but it's as objective as it can be, and it has at least 8 years of experience with offshoring and H1B resources.[/edit]