Soldier looking for build advice

[Unicron80]

Long time forum lurker, hardly ever post. Currently serving in Iraq with the Army. I've been in training or deployment for about two years now, so I'm way behind on current technology and where it's going to be six months from now. I want to start buying parts at the beginning of 2008, since I hope to be home sometime in the spring, when I can assemble it.

Basically, what I'd really like is some advice, in whatever form, on where video cards are at right now (no clue about SLI or physics cards), processors (dual core and 64 bit were just coming out last I read about), cooling, SFF computers, etc.

I want to build a gaming computer; just need the box, already have a decent 19" lcd. I'd like either a shuttle xpc or something similar...something I can put in a case and take to LAN parties. I'm not sure on my budget, but I should be able to go for top of the line or really close to it.

I'm really interested in what I should be waiting for in the next 4-5 months...DX10 cards? True quad processors? I only heard these things being talked about, don't know the advantages/disadvantages.

As far as my build experience, I've built probably a dozen computers for myself and friends...I can keep up with the discussions on here, not so much in the "highly technical" forum.

I'm interested in real-world numbers, not in bumping up 3dmark scores. Just want to be able to play the latest and greatest with the best possible visuals.

Kind of hard for me to get a lot of internet access and search a lot of articles, so I was hoping you guys could help me narrow down my search and cut through the BS.

Thanks in advance and can't wait to finally build the computer I want...going to be my reward to myself for a successful deployment.

 

[LightningRider]

Well if you are going to be building in early(ish) 2008. I would roughly suggest the following:

-Penryn Quad Core

These are the new CPUs from Intel in the Core 2 line. 45nm process technology. Supposed to be about 10-15% faster than the current Core 2's though they can show improvements by up to 110% in some applications such as DVD encoding which utilize the chip's new SSE4 instruction set. Right now Quad's have become pretty cheap and the Penryn lineup should make quad's even more affordable. The desktop versions are supposed to be coming in early 2008. The server models are being released on November 11 (I think that's the date) 2007. The AMD Phenom is also going to be released sometime this year or early next supposedly, but we've yet to see any benchmarks from AMD and they are not talking about the CPU very much. Many believe that AMD just doesn't have what it takes to dethrone Intel from the performance crown and that is why they haven't said any thing about how their newest chips will perform. AMD has been losing a lot of money this past year and many are disappointed with them. Intel has the undisputed performance crown for the moment and it looks like it may stay that way... for the time being.

-DDR3 Memory

It's hard to say for sure but DDR3 is starting to become available, though it is very expensive right now. By the time you build, DDR3 might be a more worthwhile option if prices go down. Right now you can get 2X the amount of DDR2 over DDR3 for less money. The performance gain for the moment is minor. These factors may change by the time you build, but if not, go with some fast DDR2 memory, and get lots of it. Most gamers are going with 4GB now if they can afford it, and will probably become more in demand by users by the time you construct your system.

-X38 Chipset based Motherboard

This is the newest chipset from Intel set to release near the end of September or beginning of October. It features PCI-Express 2.0, Crossfire, SLI(Intel and nVidia are still arguing about liscencing but it may happen), support for Intel Penryn Processors, DDR3 and DDR2 support (depending on which model you buy) as well as some other bonuses. They are aimed at the mid-high end market and should be very nice boards. nVidia is also rumoured to be releasing another chipset later this year in around November/December and will definitely support SLI.

-nVidia 9800GTX Video Card

More speculation on nVidia is that they will be releasing their GeForce 9 series cards in November. 9800GTS and GTX will no doubt be the new top kings, and should be worth waiting for particularly since the current 8800 cards do not perform so well in DirectX10 games from what we've seen so far. I'd definitely snag one of these by the time you build. But there could be something better from AMD/ATi by then as well. (AMD bought out ATi if you didn't know that).

As far as OS's go... Go with Vista x64 (64 bit edition, at LEAST Home Premium or higher) so that you can address more than 3GB of RAM) and have access to DirectX10 (DirectX10 is Vista only).

There are also new hard drives about to be released and should rival or exceed the performance of even Raptors in some operations.

Physics Cards are not worth it at all, since a quad core processor will be more than enough for any physics and most people go with a Thermalright Ultra Extreme or Tuniq Tower for the best possible air cooling. There are other options of course depending on what you need.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[crimson117]

As for "True quad processors" I assume you're referring to how Intel's current quad core is really two dual core processors on one piece of silicon. So "true quad core" would be one processor with 4 cores.

In any case, intel's quad core vs true quad core will not affect gaming performance any time soon, so I wouldn't worry about it For a gaming system, you might even get better results with a faster dual core processor for the same price as a slower quad core:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz 1066 4MBx2: $266
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.00GHz 1333 4MB: $266

Quad core currently only makes a difference, clock for clock, in heavy media encoding or rendering.

 

[Unicron80]

@ LightninRider:

AMD has fallen quite a bit it seems since I was last up to date. Are there any cooling problems with these quadcores?

4G! Jeez. I didn't realize DDR3 was out. I think programmers are getting lazy. 4Gigs! Moon pies...what a time to be alive.

What's the key different in the flavors of video cards these days? I know pixel pipelines were a big deal before...is there something equivalent to look for on similar cards? Is it still better to have one top card or two lesser cards in SLI? I keep hearing conflicting reports.

Hard drives are a big one...used to, everyone only talked about Raptors....what's the deal with 7200.10 and 7200.11? I don't understand the nomenclature.

Just about the perfect response I was looking for, thanks.



@crimson117

Heard conflicting reports on this...is there a time in the near future that more programs can better utilize the quad cores? Like, does DX10 use them better? Or patches to Vista or something? Thanks for the reply.

 

[bamacre]

As for the argument about choosing a faster dual core (E6850) versus a slower quad core (Q6600), I think the E6850 is a better choice if you plan on keeping it for 2 years or less. But if you want to keep it longer, I think the Q6600 is the better choice. Both are great cpu's for the money.

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Unicron80
@ LightninRider:

AMD has fallen quite a bit it seems since I was last up to date. Are there any cooling problems with these quadcores?

4G! Jeez. I didn't realize DDR3 was out. I think programmers are getting lazy. 4Gigs! Moon pies...what a time to be alive.

What's the key different in the flavors of video cards these days? I know pixel pipelines were a big deal before...is there something equivalent to look for on similar cards? Is it still better to have one top card or two lesser cards in SLI? I keep hearing conflicting reports.

Hard drives are a big one...used to, everyone only talked about Raptors....what's the deal with 7200.10 and 7200.11? I don't understand the nomenclature.

Just about the perfect response I was looking for, thanks.



@crimson117

Heard conflicting reports on this...is there a time in the near future that more programs can better utilize the quad cores? Like, does DX10 use them better? Or patches to Vista or something? Thanks for the reply.

I would like to put my signature under the LightningRider's post.

And thank you guys for doing a great job there! Hope to see you back in the country soon!

 

[Unicron80]

Thanks guys...looks like quad vs duo core is going to be a big debate for me. Going to monitor Ram prices to see if DDR3 starts coming down.

 

[LightningRider]

You're welcome, while it's true if you buy now, I think quad core is not necessary, though the Q6600 is only $300 and many are jumping on it.

By the time that you buy... Quad Cores should be even cheaper and more powerful than they already are. Not to mention that a lot of upcoming games do make use of Quad Cores. Quads do allow you a lot of multitasking options as well.

As for DDR3... I don't know how much it will drop in price by early 2008 but it may take at least a year for it to come down to DDR2 levels. But I would think it should be much cheaper by the time Intel releases Nehalem (8 cores w/ Hyperthreading, 16 simultaneous threads, Intregrated Memory Controller, etc etc) in late '08/early '09.

As for video cards. Buying mid range cards right now is a scam. Cards like the 8600GT do support DirectX10, but barely perform better than a 7600GT from last generation. The best bang for your buck card right now is probably the 8800GTS 320MB if you want a DirectX10 solution. Otherwise the previous generation ATi X1950XTX is a good buy at ~$160. The 8800GTS 320MB is around $260-$300. But things will definitely change by the time you are ready to buy with the Geforce 9 Series.

And lastly as for hard drives. 7200.11 is simply the next series of hard drives from Seagate. A supposed transfer rate of 105MB/sec and they use 250GB platters. You can see more specs on the Seagate website. The Samsung Spinpoint F1 is even faster spec-wise and should be released in October from what I've read. It will be interesting to see reviews on them all.

Oh, yeah, and quad's do run a little hot right now, though if you're not OC'ing the stock cooler should be fine. Extra cooling does help though.

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: Unicron80
is there a time in the near future that more programs can better utilize the quad cores?

I don't know what the future holds - but luckily for you you're not buying today! Keep that question in mind, and when you're ready to start placing orders check out some anandtech benchmarks or reviews of new games.

 

[Unicron80]

@LightningRider

Sounds like quad core is the way to go. Pretty cheap, too. I'm probably going to stick it in a shuttle xpc, so cooling will be built-in. Have to see what kind of chipsets they are using, might have to go with a lanboy or something similar so I can pick my own mobo.

I've never had a "top" video card, so I'm definitely going to be going for the best, even if it's probably smarter to stay at the high end of the mid-range cards most of the time and upgrade every 18 months or so.

Haven't been able to track down too much info on DDR3. Not even listed on pricewatch that I can see.

@crimson117

Definitely. Just wanted to catch up on current tech, since I've been pulling a Rip Van Winkle for a few years.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Unicron80]

I have another question about video cards:

Are stock coolers on the high end video cards enough to push overclocking? I know the last time I built a system, you had to use arctic cooling addons to get enough cooling to push the card harder. Is this still the case? or do the recent cards, especially the two-slot ones, have adequate coolers for overclocking?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Unicron80
Sounds like quad core is the way to go. Pretty cheap, too. I'm probably going to stick it in a shuttle xpc, so cooling will be built-in. Have to see what kind of chipsets they are using, might have to go with a lanboy or something similar so I can pick my own mobo.

Yeah, but I highly doubt that you'd be able to get acceptable temps in a Shuttle, with all 4 cores maxed. If you decide to get a quad, I'd highly recommend a Lanboy.

Haven't been able to track down too much info on DDR3. Not even listed on pricewatch that I can see.

DDR3 is still extremely expensive, though it's getting cheaper by the day. You'll have to find out how much it's going for, before you order your parts. Right now, it makes no sense to spend that much money on RAM, especially when DDR2 is so cheap.

 

[Unicron80]

@myocardia

I'm looking at some other SFF cases, such as the Qmicra. Looks like it can handle the quad core and big vid cards with little problems. Hopefully by the time I start building the DDR2/3 debate will be easier.

 

[heyheybooboo]

I'd definately hold off to buy until you get back next spring. Both AMD & Intel will have new CPUs/chipsets out. DDR3 will be more mainstream. HD DVDs should be out in force. Who knows where vid cards will be? Single card dual GPUs for graphics/physics have to be on somebody's roadmap.

Keep your head down and come back safe . . . .