State of the Union 2024

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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
That shit is horrible for you though. Seriously, can't you buy a big package of boneless skinless chicken breasts and some seasoning and rice and veggies fresh and make meals for yourself? I guess you are saving money because you'll die 5 years sooner eating like that lol. No offense personally.
Did you miss the part where I said I didn't want to cook when it's 107 and I can't even keep the house at 80 with my ACs running full blast? I eat that shit maybe a couple times a month when we're not in the dead of summer but the last two summers in my area (San Antonio Tx) have been unreal levels of hot.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,154
4,492
136
Did you miss the part where I said I didn't want to cook when it's 107 and I can't even keep the house at 80 with my ACs running full blast? I eat that shit maybe a couple times a month when we're not in the dead of summer but the last two summers here have been unreal levels of hot.
Instant pot meals or use the stovetop dog. We use the former even in New England when we aren’t grilling.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,197
9,373
136
He’s talking about all wages not hourly pay.
That is an interesting distinction, I will try to consider.
Though my first thought is... any position not paid hourly is probably upper class. And not those who actually need it for basic material subsistence. Despite overpriced things making it feel that way to them. Like, I get it, people making salaries of $60k or $80k could actually be living paycheck to paycheck. Housing and Healthcare have seen to that. Costs and taxes can easily scale through $100k. They can do a little bit of spending and have nothing left over.

But my priority would be on a "living wage". That there are many in America - who we do not even pay enough to survive on. Anecdotal evidence from Boomers I know, corroborated by Robert Reich's message on how the economy changed for the worse over the decades. Maybe there are holes in the theory, but my understanding is that minimum wage needs to be AT LEAST $25/hour for people to even imagine enjoying the life style and overall wealth that the Boomers enjoyed when they were young. And that figure was before COVID's inflation.

The factory job my father had in 1990... pays the same today.
Everything I know tells me people are FAR WORSE off due to the gap in wages.
And it is only getting worse.

If someone tells me the rich being richer helps even it out.....
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
Instant pot meals or use the stovetop dog. We use the former even in New England when we aren’t grilling.
All that shit puts heat into the house that's a pain to get rid of since our summer nights tend to have lows just under 80 degrees with dewpoints in the high 70s. For July through mid September I just do not cook in my house and eat sandwiches, cold salads, or go out if I want a hot meal. At least the last two years where we had the two hottest summers ever recorded in San Antonio. There's such a big difference in cooling your house when it's 107 vs when it's 97 which is what historical averages should be in the hot part of the year. Especially when it reaches 100 by like 11AM and you're above the century mark for 10+ hours straight.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,182
9,788
136
Instant pot meals or use the stovetop dog. We use the former even in New England when we aren’t grilling.
My instant pot has been a revelation/revolution in my kitchen. Low maintenance cooking (i.e. none!), keeps the humidity down (my windows used to fog up when I cooked on the stove). Heat in my kitchen isn't an issue, when it is, it's usually too cold, like this morning.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,154
4,492
136
All that shit puts heat into the house that's a pain to get rid of since our summer nights tend to have lows just under 80 degrees with dewpoints in the high 70s. For July through mid September I just do not cook in my house and eat sandwiches, cold salads, or go out if I want a hot meal. At least the last two years where we had the two hottest summers ever recorded in San Antonio. There's such a big difference in cooling your house when it's 107 vs when it's 97 which is what historical averages should be in the hot part of the year. Especially when it reaches 100 by like 11AM.
Agreed, but in the case of an instant pot it’s a minuscule amount of heat. Few hundred watts or even a kilowatt for 10-20 mins won’t do anything compared to the great outdoors.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,979
3,742
136
All that shit puts heat into the house that's a pain to get rid of since our summer nights tend to have lows just under 80 degrees with dewpoints in the high 70s. For July through mid September I just do not cook in my house and eat sandwiches, cold salads, or go out if I want a hot meal. At least the last two years where we had the two hottest summers ever recorded in San Antonio. There's such a big difference in cooling your house when it's 107 vs when it's 97 which is what historical averages should be in the hot part of the year. Especially when it reaches 100 by like 11AM and you're above the century mark for 10+ hours straight.
Unfortunately the "new normal." I might have missed it earlier in this thread, but where would you move to if Wemby doesn't sign an extension with the Spurs?
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
That is an interesting distinction, I will try to consider.
Though my first thought is... any position not paid hourly is probably upper class. And not those who actually need it for basic material subsistence. Despite overpriced things making it feel that way to them. Like, I get it, people making salaries of $60k or $80k could actually be living paycheck to paycheck. Housing and Healthcare have seen to that. Costs and taxes can easily scale through $100k. They can do a little bit of spending and have nothing left over.

But my priority would be on a "living wage". That there are many in America - who we do not even pay enough to survive on. Anecdotal evidence from Boomers I know, corroborated by Robert Reich's message on how the economy changed for the worse over the decades. Maybe there are holes in the theory, but my understanding is that minimum wage needs to be AT LEAST $25/hour for people to even imagine enjoying the life style and overall wealth that the Boomers enjoyed when they were young. And that figure was before COVID's inflation.

The factory job my father had in 1990... pays the same today.
Everything I know tells me people are FAR WORSE off due to the gap in wages.
And it is only getting worse.

If someone tells me the rich being richer helps even it out.....
Was reading that half of renters are spending more than 30% of income on rent + utilities. Ugh landlord's not a real job. Don't see how that can be considered anything but a giant red flag saying things are total shit for the working class in America. And then the percentage of income spent on food is at like a 30-35 year high too, I forget which. Boomers will say stop eating avocado toast dumbasses as if saving $10 a day will get you a down payment on an overpriced house these days.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,413
54,100
136
That is an interesting distinction, I will try to consider.
Though my first thought is... any position not paid hourly is probably upper class. And not those who actually need it for basic material subsistence. Despite overpriced things making it feel that way to them. Like, I get it, people making salaries of $60k or $80k could actually be living paycheck to paycheck. Housing and Healthcare have seen to that. Costs and taxes can easily scale through $100k. They can do a little bit of spending and have nothing left over.

But my priority would be on a "living wage". That there are many in America - who we do not even pay enough to survive on. Anecdotal evidence from Boomers I know, corroborated by Robert Reich's message on how the economy changed for the worse over the decades. Maybe there are holes in the theory, but my understanding is that minimum wage needs to be AT LEAST $25/hour for people to even imagine enjoying the life style and overall wealth that the Boomers enjoyed when they were young. And that figure was before COVID's inflation.

The factory job my father had in 1990... pays the same today.
Everything I know tells me people are FAR WORSE off due to the gap in wages.
And it is only getting worse.
I think people are utterly delusional about what quality of life was back in the 1950's and 60's.

In the 50's a third of households in the US didn't even have indoor plumbing and 20% lacked a refrigerator. The average house size was like 900sqft. We owned way fewer cars. They spent a lot more of their income on food, and they did so despite very rarely eating out. Americans were way, way poorer when the Boomers grew up than we are now. The problem is living standards increased rapidly during that time period and since the 80's or so have increased at a much slower rate.

People don't see their lives improving as much as their parents/grandparents' lives did and so they think things are getting worse. This is just nonsense.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
I think people are utterly delusional about what quality of life was back in the 1950's and 60's.

In the 50's a third of households in the US didn't even have indoor plumbing and 20% lacked a refrigerator. The average house size was like 900sqft. We owned way fewer cars. They spent a lot more of their income on food, and they did so despite very rarely eating out. Americans were way, way poorer when the Boomers grew up than we are now. The problem is living standards increased rapidly during that time period and since the 80's or so have increased at a much slower rate.

People don't see their lives improving as much as their parents/grandparents' lives did and so they think things are getting worse. This is just nonsense.
I object that more cars equate to better quality of life when they're more a symptom of single earner families being nearly impossible these days.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,919
12,246
136
I have some suspicion that there are a lot of grocery store changes people can make but choose not to. Maybe its part of my background growing up but I don't understand the attachment I've seen for fancy cuts of meat and brand names at the expense of your weekly/monthly budget. Don't get me wrong I know people struggle making ends meet with even basic food stuffs (and I was one of them for a time) but that trend of posting a picture of your grocery cart or bill sure has changed into carefully staged images and cut video to portray a desired narrative as opposed to giving people the information necessary to evaluate the situation. Mostly because they went fancy cut of red meat, precut and prepackaged non-seasonal fruit and veggies, expensive brand names etc and got called out for it.

And its not like the Democrats can really pass anything meaningful right now anyway
Gotta agree with the bold. If eggs or sausage or bacon are too expensive, switch to something else.
I eat oats and yogurt (and jelly) for breakfast. Very simple and cheap. The jelly is the most expensive part but if I wanted to I could easily substitute brown sugar to make it super duper cheap.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,197
9,373
136
People don't see their lives improving as much as their parents/grandparents' lives did and so they think things are getting worse. This is just nonsense.
Let us say you are majorly correct, and the numbers I know are somehow wrong.

Would you agree that those increases are eaten up by additional costs. Such as housing?
Like, I hope we are not celebrating how much more people have... BEFORE it is sunk into fixed costs.
 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,692
2,483
136
I think people are utterly delusional about what quality of life was back in the 1950's and 60's.

In the 50's a third of households in the US didn't even have indoor plumbing and 20% lacked a refrigerator. The average house size was like 900sqft. We owned way fewer cars. They spent a lot more of their income on food, and they did so despite very rarely eating out. Americans were way, way poorer when the Boomers grew up than we are now. The problem is living standards increased rapidly during that time period and since the 80's or so have increased at a much slower rate.

People don't see their lives improving as much as their parents/grandparents' lives did and so they think things are getting worse. This is just nonsense.
It is exhausting listening to the whining. Ask any “colored” person about their quality of life in the 50s. Ask any woman. Jesus Christ, if this economy was under Trump these people would be extolling the great orange god for the record stock market, gas prices, 15 million jobs created, continue used falling violent crime, immigration deal (that would have been done without sabateur racist Trump) and inflation at 3% in US would shouted as Trump saving America from post Covid economic crisis.

It is pathetic.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,989
32,259
136
I think people are utterly delusional about what quality of life was back in the 1950's and 60's.

In the 50's a third of households in the US didn't even have indoor plumbing and 20% lacked a refrigerator. The average house size was like 900sqft. We owned way fewer cars. They spent a lot more of their income on food, and they did so despite very rarely eating out. Americans were way, way poorer when the Boomers grew up than we are now. The problem is living standards increased rapidly during that time period and since the 80's or so have increased at a much slower rate.

People don't see their lives improving as much as their parents/grandparents' lives did and so they think things are getting worse. This is just nonsense.
You need to control for technology advancements. "People in the 50s didn't have supercomputers in their pockets" isn't evidence that COL isn't an issue these days. And I haven't seen you address the average vs median income disparity yet either.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
Gotta agree with the bold. If eggs or sausage or bacon are too expensive, switch to something else.
I eat oats and yogurt (and jelly) for breakfast. Very simple and cheap. The jelly is the most expensive part but if I wanted to I could easily substitute brown sugar to make it super duper cheap.
A lot of the cheapest shit gets its prices inflated the most. The worst example I have seen is the once cheap ramen noodles, which have gone up like 130% since 2019. Eggs were another example. I used to love eating eggs in the morning since they were cheap, provide good calories and protein, and taste great, but I completely boycotted them once the producers started jacking the price up while pushing lies in the media about the spike in price being because of a bird flu.
 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,692
2,483
136
Let us say you are majorly correct, and the numbers I know are somehow wrong.

Would you agree that those increases are eaten up by additional costs. Such as housing?
Like, I hope we are not celebrating how much more people have... BEFORE it is sunk into fixed costs.
Tell me, how is China and other nations doing with inflation. Can you not grasp inflation is world wide issue? Jesus Christ. Tell me is America in recession like predicted? Tell me how many jobs did Trump create in 4 years versus Biden in three hmmmm

How the hell is Biden responsible for worldwide inflation but not responsible for keeping America out of recession and bringing inflation back under control with record stock market, strong gdp etc.

The double standards, delusions about the mythical 50s is exhausting. I wonder what the tax rates were in the 50s, hmmm. I am sure the wealthy paid little taxes like today /s. I am sure the COL was great for women and minorities in the great 50s.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,989
32,259
136
Tell me, how is China and other nations doing with inflation. Can you not grasp inflation is world wide issue? Jesus Christ. Tell me is America in recession like predicted. Tell me how many job did Trump create in 4 years versus Biden in three hmmmm

How the hell is Biden responsible for worldwide inflation but not responsible for keeping America out of recession and brining inflation back under co tell with record stock market, strong gdp etc.

The double standards, delusions about the mythical 50s is exhausting
Much like Mr. Squished, you need to recalibrate your rage-o-meter.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,922
24,246
136
Funny thing is, Joe Biden is not responsible for the economic issues facing people today. I never have thought that or tell people that. In fact I say what he has been able to do has improved our lives and he could do so much more with a democratic congress. And that's a big reason how I encourage people to go out and vote in any race in any locality. We need those downballot wins so Joe Biden can do those things! And he has specific things he wants to do, which he smartly laid out last night again.

What is funny is that any comment that in some ways people are struggling today, especially with housing costs, it means you love another era better and you think Joe Biden is a bad man and you must want to give this election to Trump and people are doing the best today! Duh!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,413
54,100
136
You need to control for technology advancements. "People in the 50s didn't have supercomputers in their pockets" isn't evidence that COL isn't an issue these days.
Why would you control for quality advancements when the question is if people are better off today than in the past? Having access to the entirety of the world's information is nice! Imagine saying 'living today is better than living in the Middle Ages' and have someone say once you controlled for technological improvement it wasn't. It either is or it isn't.

Regardless, even if you try to stick to common things like cars, houses, etc. our houses are way bigger now than they were back then, we have more cars per household and they don't constantly break, etc., etc.
And I haven't seen you address the average vs median income disparity yet either.
I did not say average income I said 'average American', meaning the regular joe walking down the street.

Regardless, real median household income today is much higher than it was when the Boomers were growing up.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
Why would you control for quality advancements when the question is if people are better off today than in the past? Having access to the entirety of the world's information is nice! Imagine saying 'living today is better than living in the Middle Ages' and have someone say once you controlled for technological improvement it wasn't. It either is or it isn't.
Because it's often used to argue in favor of the neoliberalism that has dominated this nation since that fuck Reagan made it the national religion
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,413
54,100
136
It is exhausting listening to the whining. Ask any “colored” person about their quality of life in the 50s. Ask any woman. Jesus Christ, if this economy was under Trump these people would be extolling the great orange god for the record stock market, gas prices, 15 million jobs created, continue used falling violent crime, immigration deal (that would have been done without sabateur racist Trump) and inflation at 3% in US would shouted as Trump saving America from post Covid economic crisis.

It is pathetic.
As others have mentioned this is a pretty big political liability for liberals. When conservatives are in power they say the economy is great and when liberals are in power conservatives say it is terrible. Liberals just say it is terrible regardless of if they are in power or not and regardless of real advancements. If the country implements your policies and you say the results are terrible some of them are going to believe you and vote for the people who say their policies lead to things being great.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,979
3,742
136
Why are we discussing averages instead of median household income? 2023 was the first year the median increased since 2019 and we still are not back to pre-pandemic levels.
If this is true (and I don't doubt it), then it goes far to explain a lot of the economic anxiety out there. Not everyone is an upper-middle class or millionaire ATOTer.

Just because the U.S. macroeconomy is doing great relative to G20 doesn't mean it's all rainbows and unicorns here.


Prob Japan and commit seppuku tbh
Greenbacks to yens exchange rate is great, you will live large. Also, they have a ton of unwanted rural houses that are nearly free but come with lots of strings attached.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,650
7,270
136
As others have mentioned this is a pretty big political liability for liberals. When conservatives are in power they say the economy is great and when liberals are in power conservatives say it is terrible. Liberals just say it is terrible regardless of if they are in power or not and regardless of real advancements. If the country implements your policies and you say the results are terrible some of them are going to believe you and vote for the people who say their policies lead to things being great.
No, liberals here are arguing this economy is great. Leftists are saying it's terrible and has been a mess since Reagan.
 
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