State of the Union 2024

[manly]

I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. Running on a platform of 'shit's hard, here's what we're trying to do to make it better' has a lot more throw to it than 'everything's great, better than it's ever been, stop complaining, vote democrat'.

I'm not over the moon about SOTU as a lot of people are, but Pres. Biden overall hit the right notes in this regard. He touted the resiliency of the American economy and some of the gains being made, but IMHO he wasn't crowing about them because pitching "Bidenomics" has already failed miserably.

The messaging problem many of us can see is that it's hard as fuck convincing Americans that the rigged Reaganomics economy of the past 40 years is the bedrock of GOP economic policy. People can sense what many of the problems are, but they've been brainwashed to believe that it's liberal taxes or over-regulation that explains why corporations, billionaires and stockholders have accrued virtually all of the massive wealth gains since the 1980s.

 

[Zorba]

That's fine. So to be clear you would like to go back to when the economy was 'better', which is apparently pre-Reagan, meaning you're yearning for around a 25% drop in real median household income, which would be a national catastrophe. No thanks!

And the days of two digit inflation and 15+% mortgage rates.

 

[MrSquished]

I'm not doing this with you again. You know my views. Everybody who has ever visited this forum this month knows yours whether they want to or not. Move on with your life.

I have moved on. I was agreeing with his strategy on how to approach winning this election, and I named a few views that I think don't work with that, which is what he is kind of talking about, which are similar to yours. Yours is in there, because it belongs there.

Sorry you have too much pride you can't admit that your view on getting people out to vote for Biden and the D column is fucking stupid. Either that or you believe it still. Either way, it's fucking dumb and I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean, unless you think liberals and leftists doesn't include those marginalized workers:

Is this a joke?

 

[dank69]

I have moved on. I was agreeing with his strategy on how to approach winning this election, and I named a few views that I think don't work with that, which is what he is kind of talking about, which are similar to yours. Yours is in there, because it belongs there.

Sorry you have too much pride you can't admit that your view on getting people out to vote for Biden and the D column is fucking stupid. Either that or you believe it still. Either way, it's fucking dumb and I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings.

Now you are changing what I said. I said your time would be better spent focusing on people that can be swayed.

 

[Brainonska511]

Who said don't take a win. You are just making shit up.

The whole conversation is a perfect example of not being able to take a win, and use a positive framing. Everyone wants to just exude negative vibes all the time.

 

[dank69]

Is this a joke?

Just pointing out how someone might infer that "liberals and leftists" includes a few poor people.

 

[MrSquished]

Now you are changing what I said. I said your time would be better spent focusing on people that can be swayed.

I never changed what you said at all. You are pathetic trying to call me a liar when I've literally quoted your posts. And I even gave you a chance to clarify your statements before I went off on you because I really didn't think you were that bonkers stupid. Instead you stood steadfast. So I was like ok, that's been established, let's go.

 

[fskimospy]

Just pointing out how someone might infer that "liberals and leftists" includes a few poor people.

By that logic no one should say nearly any group should be happy with rising incomes for low income people as they will invariably include some poor people and therefore you will be saying the poor should be happy with their plight.

You guys are seriously losing it.

 

[MrSquished]

The whole conversation is a perfect example of not being able to take a win, and use a positive framing. Everyone wants to just exude negative vibes all the time.

No the whole conversation is about certain elitist Dems who want to delivery an out of touch message that glosses over certain realities, about the candidate to how people are doing. I've said straight up I think we can commend Biden on doing certain things and that we need to give him a D congress to really get more done, and this is how you sell undecided voters or folks that might stay at home, while acknowledging his flaws and other flaws. I mean I'm painting a real picture. It's that criticism of Biden and criticism of our current system is seen as an attack on the cult of Dems somehow. It's bizarre.

 

[dank69]

I never changed what you said at all. You are pathetic trying to call me a liar when I've literally quoted your posts. And I even gave you a chance to clarify your statements before I went off on you because I really didn't think you were that bonkers stupid. Instead you stood steadfast. So I was like ok, that's been established, let's go.

Then quote where I said "getting people out to vote for Biden and the D column is fucking stupid." I said wasting your time on certain people was stupid, not all of them.

 

[nOOky]

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't want to cook when it's 107 and I can't even keep the house at 80 with my ACs running full blast? I eat that shit maybe a couple times a month when we're not in the dead of summer but the last two summers in my area (San Antonio Tx) have been unreal levels of hot.

I'm sorry you have to live in a place like that, bless your heart.

 

[dank69]

By that logic no one should say nearly any group should be happy with rising incomes for low income people as they will invariably include some poor people and therefore you will be saying the poor should be happy with their plight.

You guys are seriously losing it.

No I am saying that when you type those words you run the risk of people interpreting it that way. I didn't say that interpretation was correct or anything of the sort.

 

[Brainonska511]

No the whole conversation is about certain elitist Dems who want to delivery an out of touch message that glosses over certain realities, about the candidate to how people are doing.

If everything sucks, it's all doom and gloom, and nothing can ever get better, what is the motivation to keep the current person in the white house over just throwing up your hands, sitting on the side, and letting Trump march right back in?

 

[Jaskalas]

Nice swipe at MAGA.
While not always true, it is fitting nonetheless.

CNN: Takeaways from Joe Biden’s State of the Union address

“When you get to be my age, certain things become clearer than ever,” Biden said in his speech, to some laughs.​

He went on: “The issue facing our nation isn’t how old we are, it’s how old our ideas are,” adding later we “can’t lead with ancient ideas.”​

 

[APU_Fusion]

I say economy good. Economy could be better. Economy could be worse. Take win not in recession. Need focus on housing development and wage improvements.

 

[fskimospy]

The whole conversation is a perfect example of not being able to take a win, and use a positive framing. Everyone wants to just exude negative vibes all the time.

haha for real. Look at all the people trying to either deny progress as never happening or saying that recognizing that progress is insensitive to the poor.

Smart politics is to celebrate the very real successes that liberal policies have had in improving quality of life. If liberals don’t celebrate them conservatives sure won’t.

‘We have been running the country for four years and everything is terrible’ is not the winning message people might think.

 

[APU_Fusion]

I for one and going to go back to the Zen 5 thread where we have been debating IPC for last month with it being -5% to +40% while veering off into compilers, memory clocks, intel motherboards with no actual credible benchmarks yet 😂

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm not over the moon about SOTU as a lot of people are, but Pres. Biden overall hit the right notes in this regard. He touted the resiliency of the American economy and some of the gains being made, but IMHO he wasn't crowing about them because pitching "Bidenomics" has already failed miserably.

The messaging problem many of us can see is that it's hard as fuck convincing Americans that the rigged Reaganomics economy of the past 40 years is the bedrock of GOP economic policy. People can sense what many of the problems are, but they've been brainwashed to believe that it's liberal taxes or over-regulation that explains why corporations, billionaires and stockholders have accrued virtually all of the massive wealth gains since the 1980s.

At this point I'd vote for a tree stump if it ran on the platform of 'bleed the rich dry'.

 

[MrSquished]

Then quote where I said "getting people out to vote for Biden and the D column is fucking stupid." I said wasting your time on certain people was stupid, not all of them.

I said we have to reach out to people that are not totally onboard with going out and voting for Biden, or uninspired or disillusioned, maybe not voting at all, and driving turnout. You said those people are loons if they don't understand what they have to do now, literally said they are unsafe to walk among us, and not worth it. Are you always this delusional?

 

[MrSquished]

haha for real. Look at all the people trying to either deny progress as never happening or saying that recognizing that progress is insensitive to the poor.

Smart politics is to celebrate the very real successes that liberal policies have had in improving quality of life. If liberals don’t celebrate them conservatives sure won’t.

‘We have been running the country for four years and everything is terrible’ is not the winning message people might think.

Except nobody perhaps save one person is even saying something near to that at all.

All you do is make fake shit up to argue against when you get called out for being a closeminded smug elitist prick. Which is even more plain to see than ever.

 

[APU_Fusion]

Wealth inequality 2021 article

Take the win. The bottom 50% at least were out performing middle and upper class with monthly income increases in 2021 and it seems like continues. It is better than the opposite.

 

[manly]

At this point I'd vote for a tree stump if it ran on the platform of 'bleed the rich dry'.

Sure, but your vote and mine are already locked in. It's a slice of swing voters in just a handful of battleground states that gets to decide everyone's fates.

FWIW, I'm not deluded enough to think we can pass a "wealth tax" anytime soon so that grifters like Elon Musk can contribute a fair share to society. But corporate income tax receipts are less than 10% of federal revenues, which is a sick joke. I'm actually a "fiscal conservative," but we can't continue to run a $1T annual deficit ad infinitum.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/17gzbhj/the_united_states_federal_government_spent_64

 

[MrSquished]

Wealth inequality 2021 article

Take the win. The bottom 50% at least were out performing middle and upper class with monthly income increases in 2021 and it seems like continues. It is better than the opposite.

IF there is one thing Dems would be fucking dumb to do, is say how much better wealth inequality is in any way shape or form. Do you now how tone deaf and not real that is? Please let's try to win this election, not sound like out of touch idiots.

Small gains are dumb to highlight.

The top 1% of American earners now own more wealth than the entire middle class

More than one-quarter of all household wealth, 26.5%, belongs to the super rich, and their wealth is growing.

www.usatoday.com

The top 1% of American earners now control more wealth than the nation’s entire middle class, federal data show.

More than one-quarter of all household wealth, 26.5%, belongs to Americans who earn enough money to rank in the top percentile by income, according to Federal Reserve statistics through mid-2023.

The top 1% holds $38.7 trillion in wealth. That’s more than the combined wealth of America’s middle class, a group many economists define as the middle 60% of households by income. Those households hold about 26% of all wealth.

Low-income Americans, representing the bottom 20% by income, own about 3% of the wealth.

 

[Zorba]

I wonder how many people had to choose between insulin and food in the 50s 60s and 70s.

How many people died of cancer in those time frames...