State of the Union 2024

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,370
43,782
136
I think a small studio would be an unpleasant place to live. That being said, I would never want to ban someone from living in it and I bet it's a whole hell of a lot nicer than sleeping on the street or in your car, which is the real alternative.

I've lived in ones that size and it's superior to the alternatives (roommates) IMO. People should have options.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
27,664
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I think a small studio would be an unpleasant place to live. That being said, I would never want to ban someone from living in it and I bet it's a whole hell of a lot nicer than sleeping on the street or in your car, which is the real alternative.

I've lived in ones that size and it's superior to the alternatives (roommates) IMO. People should have options.
I would have loved to be able to live in a smaller, modern studio at a reasonable price when I was in graduate school, instead of having to share a run-down 3 bedroom apartment with roommates. The roommates were fine, but it's not like I even had much real choice in the matter.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,912
24,239
136
I've lived in ones that size and it's superior to the alternatives (roommates) IMO. People should have options.
Pretty much. I dated a teacher who had like a 450 sq ft studio and she could walk to work and loved it. She was in her forties. I mean of course she wanted to afford more space, and she could have if she moved farther away, but she made the conscious choice to live on the Upper East because the tradeoffs were worth it to her. Now if NYC could fight the NIMBY's and build more housing, then she could afford more space for the same money as the studio.

A lot of young people, they'd rather do a 400 sq foot studio in a vibrant urban area rather than die of boredom in a 1000 sq ft somewhere more suburban.

Ultimately though, we have to build a shit ton more housing but in the meantime, people are making the choices.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,370
43,782
136
A lot of young people, they'd rather do a 400 sq foot studio in a vibrant urban area rather than die of boredom in a 1000 sq ft somewhere more suburban.

We had 2100 sq ft in Austin and I was bored to tears. Not to mention driving absolutely everywhere sucked.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,985
32,243
136
Two things, dank……….. I don’t see anything in what I said equating to me wanting to prevent change, nor do I see anything in your post to suggest it would be immoral to do so.
Maybe you are not really looking.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,911
10,463
136
Pretty much. I dated a teacher who had like a 450 sq ft studio and she could walk to work and loved it. She was in her forties. I mean of course she wanted to afford more space, and she could have if she moved farther away, but she made the conscious choice to live on the Upper East because the tradeoffs were worth it to her. Now if NYC could fight the NIMBY's and build more housing, then she could afford more space for the same money as the studio.

A lot of young people, they'd rather do a 400 sq foot studio in a vibrant urban area rather than die of boredom in a 1000 sq ft somewhere more suburban.

Ultimately though, we have to build a shit ton more housing but in the meantime, people are making the choices.

In NYC the housing isn't the problem as much AFFORDABLE housing because landlords love to make a killing. Outer boroughs is much more affordable but like you said not many want to commute for 45 mins in the subway.

And I don't think homes are going down in value anytime soon for the first time home buyers either.. not close to major metropolis. I have a friend who I've known since middle school. He moved out of NYC to Washington State in the 2000's due to it being too expensive, then he moved to Texas in 2010's and bought a home for get this.. $70,000. His truck costs more than his house!

So I don't think this problem is getting solved and it'll be the people who themselves move into suburban areas as they get older or move away as they know they have a limited time where they can earn money and they don't wanna be homeless afterwards.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
Exactly - the YIMBY movement is simply looking to allow people to make their own choices as to where they want to live. Moonbeam wants to ban people from living in houses he personally disapproves of.

It's annoying how constantly deceptive the NIMBY movement is where they constantly talk about how YIMBYs want to force people to live in apartments when the actual movement is just giving people the CHOICE to live in apartments if they want to.
You persist in presenting that as my position I think, because you can't face what my real position is. I have charged you with being a believer in a religion I do not share. There is nothing wrong with the logic you bring to solve the homelessness system other than, like the logic you bring to the guns issue, it flies in the face of reality.

Instead of restating my thinking on this matter, I am going to do something else, suggest a parallel that mimics it. We can solve the housing problem by moving into space. Lots and lots of room and no crowding.
 

Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,281
3,083
136
How much is insurance playing into prices? I'd say a lot, especially in places like FL, where even getting insurance in some spots is getting hard to do. My buddy was told by his company that his hurricane deductible was going up to something like $22,000. Gee, thanks, that'll come in handy if the house actually blows completely away I guess. (He lives an hour from the coast, so wind is the only concern.)

It hurts homeowners, it hurts renters. Landlords have to pay more to make payments, they have to charge more rent.

But of course let's not look at the reasons why insurance is going up. Climate change is a hoax after all.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,401
54,069
136
You persist in presenting that as my position I think, because you can't face what my real position is. I have charged you with being a believer in a religion I do not share. There is nothing wrong with the logic you bring to solve the homelessness system other than, like the logic you bring to the guns issue, it flies in the face of reality.

Instead of restating my thinking on this matter, I am going to do something else, suggest a parallel that mimics it. We can solve the housing problem by moving into space. Lots and lots of room and no crowding.
It flies in the face of reality so much that it was the way the US worked for the vast majority of its history, lol.

We can solve the housing problem by you minding your own business.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
Maybe you are not really looking.
That is one of two possibilities I can see off hand. It's not there or I don't see it. In either case it was your argument that something is there and mine that it was vacuous, so if you can't point to anything I will assume myself correct. I am willing to engage but I don't need to. You made my case for me in my opinion.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
How much is insurance playing into prices? I'd say a lot, especially in places like FL, where even getting insurance in some spots is getting hard to do.

It hurts homeowners, it hurts renters. Landlords have to pay more to make payments, they have to charge more rent.

But of course let's not look at the reasons why insurance is going up. Climate change is a hoax after all.
Mass extinction events can wreck an economy. Something similar will happen to mites in a cheese wheel. When it is sufficiently eaten it collapses. Agent Smith called us viruses.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
14,911
10,463
136
Mass extinction events can wreck an economy. Something similar will happen to mites in a cheese wheel. When it is sufficiently eaten it collapses. Agent Smith called us viruses.

That and Climate Change are made by the Chinese of the finest Adamantium.. didn't you hear??
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,985
32,243
136
That is one of two possibilities I can see off hand. It's not there or I don't see it. In either case it was your argument that something is there and mine that it was vacuous, so if you can't point to anything I will assume myself correct. I am willing to engage but I don't need to. You made my case for me in my opinion.
I'll point to post 1047 and your lack of a response to it:

If you don't want to prevent change then you're ok with eliminating zoning laws that prevent people from building 'pod-like isolation chambers' - correct?
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
I think a small studio would be an unpleasant place to live. That being said, I would never want to ban someone from living in it and I bet it's a whole hell of a lot nicer than sleeping on the street or in your car, which is the real alternative.
I loved my studio apartment when I was in college, wouldn't love it as an adult. Of course that complex was bulldozed for a football practice facility along with a ton of other low cost student housing. The new complexes in town don't have studios.

Studios are great for people without much money and don't want roommates.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
We had 2100 sq ft in Austin and I was bored to tears. Not to mention driving absolutely everywhere sucked.
My wife has been giving me shit about how much time I spend marathon training. I showed her how we spend more time in the car every week than I spend training for a marathon, and we mostly work from home. I would so love to live somewhere where everything isn't 20 minutes away.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,664
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My wife has been giving me shit about how much time I spend marathon training. I showed her how we spend more time in the car every week than I spend training for a marathon, and we mostly work from home. I would so love to live somewhere where everything isn't 20 minutes away.
Can't have that, because Moonbeam's housing preferences means that has to be everyone's housing preference.
 

Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,281
3,083
136
I've enjoyed my trips to cities, but with my wife and I both working from home (me 100%), a small space is a giant NOPE. I also do recording as a hobby so shared walls would suck too.

I'd love to live in the country except I am allergic to rednecks and Maga types. My band has played in many a redneck dive or VFW and I break out in hives when the morons start ranting. Excuse me, gotta go take this call....

Other than weekend gigs my mileage has shrunk to silly levels...maybe 5-10 miles a week at most.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
I'll point to post 1047 and your lack of a response to it:
fskimospy made a few posts in the same vein. I responded to them by quoting one and replying to it. I can't get through to him but I will will give you a shot. He statesw his position more directly here:

"......... the YIMBY movement is simply looking to allow people to make their own choices as to where they want to live. Moonbeam wants to ban people from living in houses he personally disapproves of.

It's annoying how constantly deceptive the NIMBY movement is where they constantly talk about how YIMBYs want to force people to live in apartments when the actual movement is just giving people the CHOICE to live in apartments if they want to."

What I disapprove of is the system in which we live, a system that once in place and accepted as a religious faith produces remedies to problems that develop within that system with solutions that conform to the rules logical within that system. I say the system is sick and thus the solutions it produces are also sick. I am speaking to a group of people who all think within the rules of that system, not aware their faith in it is like a faith in a religion. I have told them their God is Satin and they don't like it. What happens is that everything I say is contorted to appear to be produced within their religious doctrine and is antithetical to it. I am not the droid they are looking for.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,370
43,782
136
My wife has been giving me shit about how much time I spend marathon training. I showed her how we spend more time in the car every week than I spend training for a marathon, and we mostly work from home. I would so love to live somewhere where everything isn't 20 minutes away.

When we relocated a big requirement was a walkable neighborhood where we didn't have to get in the car every single time we wanted something. I can walk to two grocery stores, three pharmacies, a host of medical offices, restaurants, bars, etc. The only thing I have to drive to is the gym but I'm considering getting a bike for that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
My wife has been giving me shit about how much time I spend marathon training. I showed her how we spend more time in the car every week than I spend training for a marathon, and we mostly work from home. I would so love to live somewhere where everything isn't 20 minutes away.
If I may, I believe that what your wife is saying could have little to do with the time you spend on one thing, but possible the feeling that for some reason you are not paying enough attention to her. If so, several problems attend to that. It may be that you have feelings you may not be aware of that are making her feelings factual. Another is that her fear you aren't interested in her in a way that is reassuring will cause her to express a neediness that will drive anybody away. If the situation is bad enough perhaps third party counseling could help.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,912
24,239
136
When we relocated a big requirement was a walkable neighborhood where we didn't have to get in the car every single time we wanted something. I can walk to two grocery stores, three pharmacies, a host of medical offices, restaurants, bars, etc. The only thing I have to drive to is the gym but I'm considering getting a bike for that.
the 15 minute city is a good outline of some ways to do parts of this


I live in a 15 minute city at least from where my home is located. It's priceless.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,985
32,243
136
fskimospy made a few posts in the same vein. I responded to them by quoting one and replying to it. I can't get through to him but I will will give you a shot. He statesw his position more directly here:

"......... the YIMBY movement is simply looking to allow people to make their own choices as to where they want to live. Moonbeam wants to ban people from living in houses he personally disapproves of.

It's annoying how constantly deceptive the NIMBY movement is where they constantly talk about how YIMBYs want to force people to live in apartments when the actual movement is just giving people the CHOICE to live in apartments if they want to."

What I disapprove of is the system in which we live, a system that once in place and accepted as a religious faith produces remedies to problems that develop within that system with solutions that conform to the rules logical within that system. I say the system is sick and thus the solutions it produces are also sick. I am speaking to a group of people who all think within the rules of that system, not aware their faith in it is like a faith in a religion. I have told them their God is Satin and they don't like it. What happens is that everything I say is contorted to appear to be produced within their religious doctrine and is antithetical to it. I am not the droid they are looking for.
I understand what you are saying but you are avoiding answering a simple question because you don't like your own answer. Instead of just saying "I'm not okay with people building pod-like isolation chambers" you're saying "nobody would want to live in a pod-like isolation chamber if our system wasn't sick."

Of course, you understand what you are actually saying if you agree with that last interpretation of your last post is "I know what people want better than they do" or "I know what's better for people than they do." If you acknowledge this then you see the error of your position, no matter how much you try to obfuscate with philosophy.

One of the first lessons people need to learn is that it's okay for other people to like what you don't like and not like what you like as long as they are not hurting anyone else. Changing your surrounding property from nature to asphalt and concrete does not qualify as hurting you. You can sell your house at a huge profit and afford to buy a new property with all the surrounding nature you like in a new area, pay people to pack and move all your stuff so you don't have to lift a finger, and probably still have plenty of money left over if you are smart about it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,370
43,782
136
the 15 minute city is a good outline of some ways to do parts of this


I live in a 15 minute city at least from where my home is located. It's priceless.

The conservative freak out over this was something.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,664
12,089
136
the 15 minute city is a good outline of some ways to do parts of this


I live in a 15 minute city at least from where my home is located. It's priceless.
What's crazy is that many people already live relatively close to many of their everyday things. We've just made it so that the only "safe" or convenient way to get there is by automobile.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,245
6,634
126
I understand what you are saying but you are avoiding answering a simple question because you don't like your own answer. Instead of just saying "I'm not okay with people building pod-like isolation chambers" you're saying "nobody would want to live in a pod-like isolation chamber if our system wasn't sick."

Of course, you understand what you are actually saying if you agree with that last interpretation of your last post is "I know what people want better than they do" or "I know what's better for people than they do." If you acknowledge this then you see the error of your position, no matter how much you try to obfuscate with philosophy.

One of the first lessons people need to learn is that it's okay for other people to like what you don't like and not like what you like as long as they are not hurting anyone else. Changing your surrounding property from nature to asphalt and concrete does not qualify as hurting you. You can sell your house at a huge profit and afford to buy a new property with all the surrounding nature you like in a new area, pay people to pack and move all your stuff so you don't have to lift a finger, and probably still have plenty of money left over if you are smart about it.
This is all system speak as I warned you no amount of warning would prevent you from doing. It's like trying to explain a cube to a square or a line to a dot.
 
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