State of the Union 2024

[MrSquished]

What would the minimum wage be if it kept up with inflation and even just some of productivity?

Over 20 an hour.

Housing costs are now a much bigger chunk of income.

Those fast food workers finally getting 15 is great and better, but they are still way behind.

It seems acknowledging this offends some people.

How can one convince people the Democrats can fix an issue, which is how I sell my party to others, if we can't acknowledge reality?

Same with the nonsense people saying Biden was the clear first choice of the Dem voters. Again, not acknowledging reality.

It's actually ok to admit the issues at hand, Biden seems to do that fine, while still supporting your party and candidate.

Some cultists here disagree.

So we have arguments.

Republicans are evil. Democrats who can't handle any talk of reality are morons, but at least they are not evil. Just annoying. And what has cost us winnable elections before.

 

[dank69]

Also, in 1950 people didn't worry about the cost of education that much because only about 5% of adults had a college degree.

They didn't need one to find a job that paid enough to survive or thrive.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Not very many - type 2 diabetes was much rarer in those days. One of the big reasons for this was food was simply far more expensive for working families so getting fat cost a lot!

Meh bigger reason is all the corn syrup and sugar put into food these days

 

[SteveGrabowski]

They didn't need one to find a job that paid enough to survive or thrive.

Though that's not really sustainable in a capitalist economy and came from Germany, UK, USSR, France, Japan, etc being bombed to shit while the American ruling class was insulated from the war by two oceans.

 

[APU_Fusion]

They didn't need one to find a job that paid enough to survive or thrive.

I agree in the sense the information economy and technology has changed what is need to get a good job. However, this is where today’s QOLis vastly superior to then with a correlated increased baseline COL. I don’t want to live on a farm, farming 12 hours a day to sleep in a small bedroom with 6 brothers with no convenience of modern living. I, for one, enjoy the advancements, in science, technology, leisure, educational opportunities today can provide.this is at a cost of specializations and the need for focused educational fields. So much information is being generated.

 

[fskimospy]

But a guy pumping gas could afford shelter, food and medical care for a family of 7 to 10. And his kids could pay for college with a part-time job with money left over for beer.

The average household size in 1950 was 3.5 people. Additionally, the shelter the average American could afford back then was about a third the size of the shelter the average American has today. If they were doing well they might have a car for the whole family while today most have two. Their life expectancy was about 12 years lower than ours. The national poverty rate was nearly double what it is today, etc.

Yeah, sounds great.

 

[Roger Wilco]

But a guy pumping gas could afford shelter, food and medical care for a family of 7 to 10. And his kids could pay for college with a part-time job with money left over for beer.

The quality of shelter and medical care were substantially inferior in the 50s 60s and 70s compared to today, no?

 

[Jaskalas]

No, liberals here are arguing this economy is great. Leftists are saying it's terrible and has been a mess since Reagan.

Uhhh, dare I ask?
Your greater definitions for Liberal VS Leftist?

 

[fskimospy]

Though that's not really sustainable in a capitalist economy and came from Germany, UK, USSR, France, Japan, etc being bombed to shit while the American ruling class was insulated from the war by two oceans.

This is not really true. Exports in the era after World War 2 comprised about 4% of US GDP and more importantly who were we trading with? The bombs that destroyed our competition also destroyed our customers and even before the war the US faced pretty limited international competition. The growth after WW2 was overwhelmingly from domestic factors.

 

[dank69]

Meh bigger reason is all the corn syrup and sugar put into food these days

No it's the volume of food more than the quality.

The quality of shelter and medical care were substantially inferior in the 50s 60s and 70s compared to today, no?

Due to technology advancements, not because it is cheaper.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Uhhh, dare I ask?
Your greater definitions for Liberal VS Leftist?

 

[SteveGrabowski]

This is not really true. Exports in the era after World War 2 comprised about 4% of US GDP and more importantly who were we trading with? The bombs that destroyed our competition also destroyed our customers and even before the war the US faced pretty limited international competition. The growth after WW2 was overwhelmingly from domestic factors.

More like there was minimal competition from imports so manufacturing had to be done here.

 

[dank69]

The average household size in 1950 was 3.5 people. Additionally, the shelter the average American could afford back then was about a third the size of the shelter the average American has today. If they were doing well they might have a car for the whole family while today most have two. Their life expectancy was about 12 years lower than ours. The national poverty rate was nearly double what it is today, etc.

Yeah, sounds great.

You are averaging all those without kids to get down to the 3.5 number. we're down to 2.5 now. Bigger house, more cars, again that is QOL not COL. Life expectancy certainly isn't because healthcare is cheaper, it's all due to advances in medicine. Correct me if I am wrong but I think life expectancy is trending down now in the US.

EDIT: I mean, a lot of those houses from the 40s and 50s are still available today but young people can't afford them, and they certainly can't afford to have kids.

 

[fskimospy]

Due to technology advancements, not because it is cheaper.

Our houses are nearly three times the size. This is not due to technological advancements.

People comparing 50's housing costs to 2024 housing costs should consider the fact that quite a lot of the housing that existed in 1950 would be illegal to build today because it would be too small, etc.

 

[Jaskalas]

...

The 25% tax I want for UBI would likely make Bernie Sanders blush, that's for sure.

 

[fskimospy]

More like there was minimal competition from imports so manufacturing had to be done here.

There was minimal competition from imports before the war as well. In 1939 imports comprised 2.5% of GDP. In 1950 it was actually slightly higher at 3% so if anything more competition after the war than before.

Value of imported goods as a share of GDP

Estimates correspond to merchandise import-to-GDP ratios for countries and regions. All ratios are taken at current prices. See source for more details.

ourworldindata.org

 

[dank69]

The 25% tax I want for UBI would likely make Bernie Sanders blush, that's for sure.

Once you subtract the costs of welfare/SS/Medicare/Medicaid and all the other programs UBI is likely a lot cheaper.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think life expectancy is trending down now in the US.

It's funny seeing broke ass Cuba with a higher life expectancy than us now. Even before the pandemic before right wing nuts went antivax to own the libs.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'll say this @fskimospy , you certainly have me wondering who is right and who is wrong on this matter.
It requires due consideration, the sort of time and thought that we will not find here in this moment. I will leave it at that, and I do thank you for your input.

 

[dank69]

Our houses are nearly three times the size. This is not due to technological advancements.

People comparing 50's housing costs to 2024 housing costs should consider the fact that quite a lot of the housing that existed in 1950 would be illegal to build today because it would be too small, etc.

Again, a lot of those houses still exist but cost 10-20x as much. And again, that is QOL not COL.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Funny thing is, Joe Biden is not responsible for the economic issues facing people today. I never have thought that or tell people that. In fact I say what he has been able to do has improved our lives and he could do so much more with a democratic congress. And that's a big reason how I encourage people to go out and vote in any race in any locality. We need those downballot wins so Joe Biden can do those things! And he has specific things he wants to do, which he smartly laid out last night again.

What is funny is that any comment that in some ways people are struggling today, especially with housing costs, it means you love another era better and you think Joe Biden is a bad man and you must want to give this election to Trump and people are doing the best today! Duh!

No, he isn't, but shit rolls uphill in govt. He'll get the blame from the uneducated masses whether he deserves it or not. And he'll sure as shit get nailed if Democrats are beating the drum of 'economy economy economy' when the average schlub isn't feeling it. If R's ran on a platform of 'is your life better than 4 years ago' they'd pull more numbers than they will without it.

 

[fskimospy]

Again, a lot of those houses till exist but cost 10-20x as much. And again, that is QOL not COL.

No, it is cost of living because houses as small as those available in the 50's are often hard to come by and no new ones are allowed to be built.

Regardless, as mentioned before real incomes, which take into account shelter inflation, are much higher now than they were in the 1950's. I don't know why people are fighting so hard against this extremely good news.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Again, a lot of those houses still exist but cost 10-20x as much. And again, that is QOL not COL.

Yeah I bought a house built in the 50s but before housing went nuts. I can't believe what these fuckers sell for now.

 

[dank69]

No, it is cost of living because houses as small as those available in the 50's are often hard to come by and no new ones are allowed to be built.

That depends on the area. They are not hard to come by in many areas. Hell, how many people live in trailers?

Regardless, as mentioned before real incomes, which take into account shelter inflation, are much higher now than they were in the 1950's. I don't know why people are fighting so hard against this extremely good news.

It's hard to find real median household income data further back than the 70s...

 

[fskimospy]

It's hard to find real median household income data further back than the 70s...

According to the Census the median household in 1950 made between $3,000 and $3,999. (of course $3,999 actually takes you up to the 64th percentile so it's probably more like $3,500 for the 50th)

Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950

Distribution of families and unrelated individuals by total money income, for the United States, urban and rural.

www.census.gov

Being as generous as possible let's say the median American household made $4,000 in 1950. Adjusting for inflation we end up with roughly $52,500 in 2024 dollars.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Real median household income in the US for 2023 is estimated to be about $77,000. So that's about a 32% increase. Now estimates are hard and I'm sure everyone has slightly different methodologies but I think by any reasonable metric it is clear that the average American is much better off.