State of the Union 2024

[Meghan54]

I see the stuff people buy at Costco, I buy cheap meat... always. And not a lot. I wandered into my local indie supermarket a couple weeks ago. Rainy weather, I needed a walk and instead of heading for the hills, on a whim I just went in the market. No intention to buy anything, just had a look around. My conclusion was that a lot of people around here "must be made out of money." I'd never buy 95+% of the stuff they have in there. I pretty much stay away from processed food of any kind. For instance, I do NOT buy a can of beans, etc. I buy dry beans, etc., likely organic (when available), so that's an additional expense, but I have some comfort in thinking I'm dodging pesticides. A high percentage of my nourishment is organic. My meats, usually not, though, but I don't eat much meat at all. Probably not enough to keep a cat alive, I like to say, maybe even a rat!

You think you’re dodging pesticides buying organic? 😂😂😂😂

Organic foods are not pesticide free, like many people may think. Organic farmers are allowed to use approved organic pesticides as well as some approved synthetic pesticides. There is a large variation in pesticide toxicity and environmental impact — within and between organic and synthetic pesticides — so “natural” pesticides aren’t inherently less toxic or better for the environment either, but that’s not to say residues on either conventional or organic foods are anywhere near unsafe levels.

 

[Jaskalas]

Back to commenting on SOTU, Noonan has lent her voice and approval of Biden's performance.
Republicans are going to struggle to reconcile angry man yells at clouds VS frail Joe with two feet in the grave.....

NOONAN: State of the Union Shows There's Life in the Old Boy Yet...

The great question the past month was about his persona. Would he walk in shakily? When he was done, would we be using words like old, frail, incapable, embarrassing? We won’t. People will say that guy has a lot of fight in him. He was wide awake, seemed to be relishing the moment, did not seem to tire much, and in fact improved as the speech moved along.​

​

He showed energy and focus, blurred some words and thoughts, maintained a brisk pace. He almost never spoke softly. He sometimes yelled. There was a give-’em-hell-Harry vibration, as if he’d been reading up on Truman. The White House meant to quell growing Democratic fears on the president’s age and acuity. They succeeded, at least for a while. Congressional Democrats looked happy to the point of bubbly when it was over.​

​

It can also be said the president often maintained an indignant and hectoring tone that he confuses with certitude and commitment. In the end I don’t know if the speech came across to a viewer at home as strong and focused or, as has been said, “Angry Old Man Yells at Clouds.” That probably depends on where you stand on Joe Biden.​

 

[Meghan54]

No, he isn't, but shit rolls uphill in govt. He'll get the blame from the uneducated masses whether he deserves it or not. And he'll sure as shit get nailed if Democrats are beating the drum of 'economy economy economy' when the average schlub isn't feeling it. If R's ran on a platform of 'is your life better than 4 years ago' they'd pull more numbers than they will without it.

Really? You seem to forget 4 years ago there were fistfights over toilet paper. Store shelves were damned near barren.

So it’s worse today than 2020 during and immediate the lockdown by Trump?

Maybe you meant it’s easier to obtain horse wormer.

 

[nakedfrog]

According to the Census the median household in 1950 made between $3,000 and $3,999. (of course $3,999 actually takes you up to the 64th percentile so it's probably more like $3,500 for the 50th)

Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950

Distribution of families and unrelated individuals by total money income, for the United States, urban and rural.

www.census.gov

Being as generous as possible let's say the median American household made $4,000 in 1950. Adjusting for inflation we end up with roughly $52,500 in 2024 dollars.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Real median household income in the US for 2023 is estimated to be about $77,000. So that's about a 32% increase. Now estimates are hard and I'm sure everyone has slightly different methodologies but I think by any reasonable metric it is clear that the average American is much better off.

It comes off like you don't really understand what a struggle it is for workers on the bottom of the pay scale.

 

[APU_Fusion]

According to the Census the median household in 1950 made between $3,000 and $3,999. (of course $3,999 actually takes you up to the 64th percentile so it's probably more like $3,500 for the 50th)

Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950

Distribution of families and unrelated individuals by total money income, for the United States, urban and rural.

www.census.gov

Being as generous as possible let's say the median American household made $4,000 in 1950. Adjusting for inflation we end up with roughly $52,500 in 2024 dollars.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Real median household income in the US for 2023 is estimated to be about $77,000. So that's about a 32% increase. Now estimates are hard and I'm sure everyone has slightly different methodologies but I think by any reasonable metric it is clear that the average American is much better off.

I think Dank’s point though is that the core COL in the 50s was much lower in ratio to actual wages than they are today? I.e. house was 10 cents per dollar earned versus 30 cents per dollar earned today. The numbers are not real life just example.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

It comes off like you don't really understand what a struggle it is for workers on the bottom of the pay scale.

Especially when so much of it is gig crap like Doordash. Ugh I hate seeing one of my closest friends from childhood who lived across the street in my old neighborhood doing that shit and putting tremendous wear on his car with constant stop and start city driving for poverty wages, but that's the kind of work largely available now and he's gotta eat.

 

[APU_Fusion]

Back to commenting on SOTU, Noonan has lent her voice and approval of Biden's performance.
Republicans are going to struggle to reconcile angry man yells at clouds VS frail Joe with two feet in the grave.....

NOONAN: State of the Union Shows There's Life in the Old Boy Yet...

The great question the past month was about his persona. Would he walk in shakily? When he was done, would we be using words like old, frail, incapable, embarrassing? We won’t. People will say that guy has a lot of fight in him. He was wide awake, seemed to be relishing the moment, did not seem to tire much, and in fact improved as the speech moved along.​

​

He showed energy and focus, blurred some words and thoughts, maintained a brisk pace. He almost never spoke softly. He sometimes yelled. There was a give-’em-hell-Harry vibration, as if he’d been reading up on Truman. The White House meant to quell growing Democratic fears on the president’s age and acuity. They succeeded, at least for a while. Congressional Democrats looked happy to the point of bubbly when it was over.​

​

It can also be said the president often maintained an indignant and hectoring tone that he confuses with certitude and commitment. In the end I don’t know if the speech came across to a viewer at home as strong and focused or, as has been said, “Angry Old Man Yells at Clouds.” That probably depends on where you stand on Joe Biden.​

Therein lies the hypocrisy. Biden is angry man at clouds but trump rants are presidential? Lmfao. I can’t roll eyes enough.

 

[fskimospy]

I think Dank’s point though is that the core COL in the 50s was much lower in ratio to actual wages than they are today? I.e. house was 10 cents per dollar earned versus 30 cents per dollar earned today. The numbers are not real life just example.

That’s why we use real wages as opposed to nominal wages. Some things got cheaper (food). Some things got more expensive (housing). What matters is everything put together. (Real income)

 

[MrSquished]

No, he isn't, but shit rolls uphill in govt. He'll get the blame from the uneducated masses whether he deserves it or not. And he'll sure as shit get nailed if Democrats are beating the drum of 'economy economy economy' when the average schlub isn't feeling it. If R's ran on a platform of 'is your life better than 4 years ago' they'd pull more numbers than they will without it.

I have totally agreed with you this entire thread on that. I think the Dems should highlight progress but acknowledge all the difficulties quite honestly. I think the elitist Dems that want to say this is the best economy ever all workers are in the best shape ever and Joe Biden was by far the best and favorite candidate of the Dem party so duh, vote for him - well I think they are morons that have no idea how to win an election.

 

[MrSquished]

It comes off like you don't really understand what a struggle it is for workers on the bottom of the pay scale.

Because he doesn't. And that's been my point for ages now. That is why I call him an elitist, because he comes off like that because he is like that. He is the LAST guy we want to emulate on messaging in order to win this election.

 

[APU_Fusion]

That’s why we use real wages as opposed to nominal wages. Some things got cheaper (food). Some things got more expensive (housing). What matters is everything put together. (Real income)

I am not disagreeing. Though I still say the wage adjusted income stagnation for most American workers since the 70s with a large transference of wealth to a small percentage of people is the real issue.

 

[dank69]

According to the Census the median household in 1950 made between $3,000 and $3,999. (of course $3,999 actually takes you up to the 64th percentile so it's probably more like $3,500 for the 50th)

Income of Families and Persons in the United States: 1950

Distribution of families and unrelated individuals by total money income, for the United States, urban and rural.

www.census.gov

Being as generous as possible let's say the median American household made $4,000 in 1950. Adjusting for inflation we end up with roughly $52,500 in 2024 dollars.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Real median household income in the US for 2023 is estimated to be about $77,000. So that's about a 32% increase. Now estimates are hard and I'm sure everyone has slightly different methodologies but I think by any reasonable metric it is clear that the average American is much better off.

I think that's a 46-47% increase?

Anyway, let's not be generous. Let's go conservative with $3500 = ~$46,000 for a whopping 67% increase. Let's also ignore that we now live in a majority two-person income per household society as opposed to single income and all the new expenses that incurs like childcare costs and domestic labor. It looks like home prices have risen 2350% while inflation was 896% since 1963, so likely a bigger disparity since 1950. Healthcare from 1970 to 2022 went from inflation adjusted $2,072 to $13,493. What percentage is that? Then tack on college costs.

 

[fskimospy]

It comes off like you don't really understand what a struggle it is for workers on the bottom of the pay scale.

What does stating the fact that the average American is better off now than in the 50’s have to do with my understanding of the struggle of poorly paid workers? It’s a fact and we should deal in facts.

In case you are interested in the struggle of workers on the bottom of the pay scale the social safety net is far larger now than it was in 1950 - if people were genuinely worse off today than in 1950 that would be a powerful argument against future efforts to help the poor so we should be happy this is the case.

 

[fskimospy]

I think that's a 46-47% increase?

Anyway, let's not be generous. Let's go conservative with $3500 = ~$46,000 for a whopping 67% increase. Let's also ignore that we now live in a majority two-person income per household society as opposed to single income and all the new expenses that incurs like childcare costs and domestic labor.

This argument was already made in this thread. When that happened I switched to personal income and the same large increase remained.

It looks like home prices have risen 2350% while inflation was 896% since 1963, so likely a bigger disparity since 1950. Healthcare from 1970 to 2022 went from inflation adjusted $2,072 to $13,493. What percentage is that? Then tack on college costs.

This is just known as inflation. That’s why you use real wages.

 

[nakedfrog]

What does stating the fact that the average American is better off now than in the 50’s have to do with my understanding of the struggle of poorly paid workers? It’s a fact and we should deal in facts.

In case you are interested in the struggle of workers on the bottom of the pay scale the social safety net is far larger now than it was in 1950 - if people were genuinely worse off today than in 1950 that would be a powerful argument against future efforts to help the poor so we should be happy this is the case.

I am very, very familiar with the struggle of workers on the bottom of the scale, I know a lot of them.

I almost want to read your posts at the leftist open mic, and explain to them how they're all doing great based on your calculations. We don't get a lot of comedy acts.

 

[dank69]

This argument was already made in this thread. When that happened I switched to personal income and the same large increase remained.


This is just known as inflation. That’s why you use real wages.

But "inflation" is clearly not making a distinction between COL and QOL. The basic needs (housing, healthcare) have risen far faster than generic "inflation."

 

[dank69]

The 80" 8K TV looks really great from my $65 (free shipping!) death bed I bought off Temu.

 

[eelw]

Therein lies the hypocrisy. Biden is angry man at clouds but trump rants are presidential? Lmfao. I can’t roll eyes enough.

Yup and yesterdays speech was a campaign rally and he was divisive and only addressed his base. But hardly surprised from the party of hypocrisy.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I am very, very familiar with the struggle of workers on the bottom of the scale, I know a lot of them.

I almost want to read your posts at the leftist open mic, and explain to them how they're all doing great based on your calculations. We don't get a lot of comedy acts.

Doing "great" and "better than you would have been in the same position in the 1950s" are very different things.

 

[fskimospy]

But "inflation" is clearly not making a distinction between COL and QOL. The basic needs (housing, healthcare) have risen far faster than generic "inflation."

I don’t know what else to say. I think the data clearly shows significant improvement for the average American over this time period and it’s not even close. I guess some people don’t like good news.

 

[Zorba]

You need to control for technology advancements. "People in the 50s didn't have supercomputers in their pockets" isn't evidence that COL isn't an issue these days. And I haven't seen you address the average vs median income disparity yet either.

The point is, go live in a 1950s equivalent household and your money would go a helluva lot further. Standard of living has increased with income and people are upset that they still don't have any left over money, while ignoring all the extra crap they have.

 

[fskimospy]

I am very, very familiar with the struggle of workers on the bottom of the scale, I know a lot of them.

I almost want to read your posts at the leftist open mic, and explain to them how they're all doing great based on your calculations. We don't get a lot of comedy acts.

I think you should! You will probably get a lot of laughs, but at your own expense because it shows you can’t read, haha.

I’ve never once said workers at the bottom are doing great. I said they are doing better now than they were doing when the boomers grew up, which is true.

 

[nakedfrog]

Good news, everyone! Your problems aren't real!

 

[fskimospy]

Good news, everyone! Your problems aren't real!

View attachment 95075

Is this basic misunderstanding of very clear posts purposeful now or are you trying out your open mic night material?

 

[APU_Fusion]

Yup and yesterdays speech was a campaign rally and he was divisive and only addressed his base. But hardly surprised from the party of hypocrisy.

Which I found fantastic. Yeppers and I am standing back, staying ready.