"Stereoscopic 3D still sucks"

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: taltamir
SSChevy... but what if you already have enough money to do all those things AND STILL have spare income to spend?

Are you going to buy these glasses? Heck I remember you shopping for your GTX260 you got listed in your sig. How much do you waste a month on your hobbies?

I got my GTX260 for 220$, by combining a coupon, a sale, and a mail in rebate (each for 30$ off; probably were not meant to stack). It was an amazing deal to get it for 220 instead of 310$. So I hopped on board.

And how much I spend depends on how much spare money I have at the time... and how much I need an upgrade.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

make sure you spend a lot of the time at the kiosk before dropping $600 on it .. and check their return policy if you still have doubts
- in better economic times it would have a better chance imo

i hope it ultimately does succeed .. 3-D is the future .. but perhaps not 3-D glasses at all

OTOH, if $600 isn't a lot of money to you, maybe just buy it, try it, sell it for $100-$200 loss if it turns out you don't like it.

I've dropped a hundy or two on worse things.

If it's so great why would they sell it?

I agree. I would prefer things that are great be given away. You and I think alike.

Well, you got it free, why not me.

Your logic fails. If this is (as you are continually pushing) the best thing since sliced bread why would they ever sell it and lose money?

 

[SirPaulie]

I don't know, so many lock on prices to me, like these 120hz monitors and glasses will be priced high for early adoption for the rest of time.

The key to me is not the prices right now but how effective is the technology itself? I'm looking at this as a foundational feature from nVidia that may mature and be more affordable as well moving forward.

Can imagine these being bundled with future video card purchases and see 120hz simply replacing 60hz technologies. It's not just about today, tomorrow, next week, months, but years moving forward to me.

Some desire to debate the merits of early adoption pricing? This is nothing new when it comes to new technology at times but does this Stereo3d deliver the goods?

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Whether he can, can't or just plain doesn't want to buy them doesn't matter- he's wise enough to recognize making a blanket statement like "These glasses aren't worth it!" has no basis in logic.

What things are worth depends entirely on the buyer's budget and interest in the item. My CPU might have been well worth $1000. to me, and in no way worth it to someone else.

Doesn't make either of us "wrong".

Just like a 4850 was worth $196.22 also when you bought it?
http://www.villagephotos.com/v...id_=23753447&selected=

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they HAVE the money.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Well, you got it free, why not me.

Why not you? I got into NFG by luck of the draw, you might as well.

NVIDIA does not post on forums, but they read them, and pick their invites based on if they think the person would be a good addition to the group.

I would guess AMD, Intel, and other hardware vendors do the same a I've run into various people over the years who've signed NDAs and act as beta testers and the like.

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Your logic fails. If this is (as you are continually pushing) the best thing since sliced bread why would they ever sell it and lose money?

Dude, nothing tops sliced bread. When you've had one too many, you might saw off a thumb making a ham sandwich if you're slicing bread.....

You are totally losing me on your line of thinking.

I want to say to you "NVIDIA doesn't lose money on the glasses. They price them so as to make a profit, nothing gets to the selling at a loss stage until it fails to sell at a profit". (barring things like "we'll make our money on the support/software/networking" type situations.

I'm guessing I'm just missing something in your phrasing, like "Why would they sell for only $200 if they're so great? Why not $500?"

Here's how I look at this:

"There is nothing you can add to a computer that I'd consider mid-range (3GHz C2D/GTX260/2GBRAM/24" monitor) for $600 that will offer 1/100th the change in gaming experience this will, not to mention the added bonus of going dual monitor and having a ton more desktop"

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
$600 is way too much. Why can't they make this work with a simple $1 pair of 3D glasses? I'm pretty sure that movie theatres run at 24fps; I fail to see the necessity of 120hz.

You should do more research on the topic, or even read one of the numerous reviews linked in the past as they explain most of your questions.

1) $600 is for glasses ($200) and a 120Hz 22" 1680x1050 LCD monitor ($400)

2) Nvidia's 3D glasses are actively shuttered, meaning they're a lot more complicated than the old red/blue anaglyph glasses of the past, or even polarized glasses. Basically each lens shuts on/off similar to an LCD screen blocking light 60x per second. They're also wireless, rechargeable and sync'd to the system/monitor via a remote hub. Is the tech worth $200? Probably not, but prices may drop if demand increases as with any economy of scale.

3) Standard movies in theatres do run at 24 FPS, however, 3D Movies run at 144 FPS (6x24) with polarized glasses, giving each eye 3 identical frames instead of 1 to make the experience smoother.

4) Similar to the above, its so each eye gets 60 frames. I'm guessing it would also work with 60Hz it would just be much less smooth looking at 30 frames per eye and you'd probably notice much more shuttering with the glasses.

I'm glad it'll be in Kiosks so we can see it for ourselves, sounds like Nvidia is listening to the feedback from various forums and reviews. If Bethesda can put a 7' Brotherhood of Steel mock-up in all my local Best Buys, Nvidia should be able to manage a few 3D glasses.

 

[apoppin]

Nvidia is listening to the feedback from various forums and reviews.

they were evidently planning this from the beginning

first they start with the tech site .. then the forums
- get a few key people excited who won't shut up about it

it is their MO for launching new tech cheaply

it is awesome marketing .. look how much attention this novelty has got here

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Nvidia is listening to the feedback from various forums and reviews.

they were evidently planning this from the beginning

first they start with the tech site .. then the forums
- get a few key people excited who won't shut up about it

it is their MO for launching new tech cheaply

it is awesome marketing .. look how much attention this novelty has got here

Why wouldn't you expect them to read forums?

Forums are populated by customers, expressing their likes and dislikes about products.

Might be helpful for design choices?

If 99.9% of people like the glasses but don't like the cost, maybe they'll come out with a wired version they can sell for half as much because it doesn't need a Lithium Ion battery or the IR emitter/receiver.

I'd call it "good business", not "slick marketing".

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Nvidia is listening to the feedback from various forums and reviews.

they were evidently planning this from the beginning

first they start with the tech site .. then the forums
- get a few key people excited who won't shut up about it

it is their MO for launching new tech cheaply

it is awesome marketing .. look how much attention this novelty has got here

Why wouldn't you expect them to read forums?

Forums are populated by customers, expressing their likes and dislikes about products.

Might be helpful for design choices?

If 99.9% of people like the glasses but don't like the cost, maybe they'll come out with a wired version they can sell for half as much because it doesn't need a Lithium Ion battery or the IR emitter/receiver.

I'd call it "good business", not "slick marketing".

it is *awesome* marketing .. that is what *I* called it
- where did you come up with "slick" ?

i know for a fact that Nvidia monitors forums .. isn't that what FG is supposed to be all about ?

They can also read that the majority of the posts are
1. "What does it look like?" -
-- they respond with tech sites and people like you; then Kiosks as they originally planned
since it is necessary to sell it
2. "wait and see"
- they generate excitement with posters who gush enthusiastically about it .. as we have noticed
3. "its expensive"
-- that is what i am waiting for .. for it to go on sale as most of us realize it must

Look what happened to Mirror's Edge .. already you can find it for almost a third off "on sale" .. why ? .. not because it is a runaway success
- i can wait them out - for 3D too

 

[JoshGuru7]

There's not much to be gained from discussing whether a product is "worth" $600 when there is no substitute to compare it to. Each individual will have their own valuation but simply making a blanket statement that it is or is not "worth" $600 is silly. Without a substitute to compare it to you end up commenting more about your own spending preferences rather than the product itself.

Personally, I'm not interested in the technology yet simply because of the existing price premiums on 120 Hz displays. When I can pick up a 30" 120 Hz LCD without paying an extreme early adopter surcharge I will definitely consider steroscopic glasses more seriously.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: JoshGuru7
There's not much to be gained from discussing whether a product is "worth" $600 when there is no substitute to compare it to. Each individual will have their own valuation but simply making a blanket statement that it is or is not "worth" $600 is silly. Without a substitute to compare it to you end up commenting more about your own spending preferences rather than the product itself.

Personally, I'm not interested in the technology yet simply because of the existing price premiums on 120 Hz displays. When I can pick up a 30" 120 Hz LCD without paying an extreme early adopter surcharge I will definitely consider steroscopic glasses more seriously.

When there's a 30" Mrs. Rollo will have another "rolling her eyes" moment, but for now I'd rather game on 22" of 3d than 30" of 2d.

There are other products to compare to, they just don't work well, so I guess in that context $600 for "works a lot better" might be considered a "good deal".

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they DON'T HAVE the money.

This better describes me sometimes. I paid around $160 for this 9600GT in my sig when it came out, though I could have probably better used the money on something like clothing or new glasses. (Damn, small print gets harder to read after turning 40.) I wanted it, thought it was a great value at the time and decided to forget the glasses and clothing because I wanted better frame rates and detail in WoW than what a 7600 GT could deliver. I don't regret that decision one bit as this has been the best video card upgrade I have ever done. (Yes, it was even better than going from a Radeon 9600 to a Geforce 6600 GT.)

I will admit that nRollo's comments on how the recession affects him and his circle of friends rubbed me the wrong way because I do know people affected severely by it. (Lost retirements, homes, cars, etc, etc.) But he is absolutely correct that one person's waste is another person's gold mine, and all of us are guilty of buying SOMETHING EXPENSIVE we could have lived without, donated to charity, paid a bill or bought things we really needed. No one has any business telling another how they should spend their money unless specifically asked for their opinion on the matter.

With that said, how can someone legitimately diss a product without first giving a good test run? What is even worse is the press writing a article on the subject without proper testing and research. People should just ignore this dolt who wrote this dribble altogether.

 

[SirPaulie]

nRollo,

Need time to adjust to this alias, hehe,!

Since you benched Mirror's edge with Stereo3d and thanks for that. I have a question that will deal with a subjective view from you.

Mirror's edge has a lot of scale -- with tall buildings and such -- how does the 3d effect feel like to you in this title? Do you get the realistic feeling of heights looking down and such?

Can you offer some comments, please.

 

[JoshGuru7]

Originally posted by: nRollo
There are other products to compare to, they just don't work well, so I guess in that context $600 for "works a lot better" might be considered a "good deal".

You could say that it was a good deal in the stereoscopic product submarket, and perhaps even stretch it to a comparison with the $200 glasses and the $400 display against a $600 display (or more realistically, 66% as much enjoyment as a $900 display).

Most of the comparisons made in this thread are entirely unreasonable. Comparing the worth of a $600 electronics product against movie tickets, donations to third world countries, rent, food, etc is an apple to orange evaluation whether you are saying it's a good deal or a bad deal. It's like estimating the value of a heatsink/fan relative to the number of loaves of bread it could be substituted for: "We recommend against purchasing this heatsink because it's not worth twenty loaves of bread."

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: nRollo

"There is nothing you can add to a computer that I'd consider mid-range (3GHz C2D/GTX260/2GBRAM/24" monitor) for $600 that will offer 1/100th the change in gaming experience this will, not to mention the added bonus of going dual monitor and having a ton more desktop"

Well, I already have a dual monitor and a HD4870, so is it worth it to me to get an Nvidia card good enough to handle 3D and Physx and then another $600 more to upgrade 3D?

Well, I haven't seen it but frankly, for no more then I game it's just not going to be worth it. Since I put my new system together (3 weeks ago) I've gamed once.... for an hour.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: nRollo

"There is nothing you can add to a computer that I'd consider mid-range (3GHz C2D/GTX260/2GBRAM/24" monitor) for $600 that will offer 1/100th the change in gaming experience this will, not to mention the added bonus of going dual monitor and having a ton more desktop"

Well, I already have a dual monitor and a HD4870, so is it worth it to me to get an Nvidia card good enough to handle 3D and Physx and then another $600 more to upgrade 3D?

Well, I haven't seen it but frankly, for no more then I game it's just not going to be worth it. Since I put my new system together (3 weeks ago) I've gamed once.... for an hour.

To me it's really as simple as this, what nobodyknows wrote. Consumers will decide if this is worth this amount of money or not. They will either buy it, or it will drop in price so more users will adopt it, or it'll wither and die. Take the GTX280 for example, regardless of how fanboys will spin it, no way in hell it provided $650 worth of performance, especially in comparrison to the competition. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of gamers will decide 3D is simply not worth a total of $600+ ($400 22" monitor and $200 glasses) to have this feature. I have no doubt that the technology is very cool and much more immersive then any 2D monitor. I just don't see it taking off in this economy at this launch price. When 120hz monitors are more the norm, and priced as the norm, and Nvidia isn't charging so much for the glasses ('so much' being my opinion) then I can see this technology moving forward. But with todays economy and the premium for small-ish 120hz monitors, I just don't see this gaining a foothold and being bought by anyone other then staunch Nvidia fanboys. Just my $.02.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SirPaulie
nRollo,

Need time to adjust to this alias, hehe,!

Since you benched Mirror's edge with Stereo3d and thanks for that. I have a question that will deal with a subjective view from you.

Mirror's edge has a lot of scale -- with tall buildings and such -- how does the 3d effect feel like to you in this title? Do you get the realistic feeling of heights looking down and such?

Can you offer some comments, please.

In my experience, I've had to turn down the level of depth in Mirrors Edge compared to what I use in other games.

This is one of the games that gets a "Good" rating rather than "Excellent" for 3d, has an issue with light halos being 2d and doesn't like a ton of depth. It does look pretty good with the 3d turned down, and does offer 3d.

I installed two old games tonight and found myself sucked into replaying them longer than I planned.

Painkiller works excellent with 3D, as does Serious Sam 2. (SS2 is an example of an unrated game I've tried that works very well if you turn off the bloom and HDR)

Note to BFG10K: Yep, I was even getting a kick out of SS2, blue babies and all. It pretty freaking surreal in 3d.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: nRollo

"There is nothing you can add to a computer that I'd consider mid-range (3GHz C2D/GTX260/2GBRAM/24" monitor) for $600 that will offer 1/100th the change in gaming experience this will, not to mention the added bonus of going dual monitor and having a ton more desktop"

Well, I already have a dual monitor and a HD4870, so is it worth it to me to get an Nvidia card good enough to handle 3D and Physx and then another $600 more to upgrade 3D?

Well, I haven't seen it but frankly, for no more then I game it's just not going to be worth it. Since I put my new system together (3 weeks ago) I've gamed once.... for an hour.

If you game an hour a month, my thought is you don't need to spend much on gaming equipment.

I'd say this is more for hobbyists who are ready for something new.

 

[zebrax2]

nVidia should have worked with some fashion company and slapped their name on the glasses. :beer:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo
Whether he can, can't or just plain doesn't want to buy them doesn't matter- he's wise enough to recognize making a blanket statement like "These glasses aren't worth it!" has no basis in logic.

What things are worth depends entirely on the buyer's budget and interest in the item. My CPU might have been well worth $1000. to me, and in no way worth it to someone else.

Doesn't make either of us "wrong".

Just like a 4850 was worth $196.22 also when you bought it?
http://www.villagephotos.com/v...id_=23753447&selected=

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they HAVE the money.

What does this even mean?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo
Whether he can, can't or just plain doesn't want to buy them doesn't matter- he's wise enough to recognize making a blanket statement like "These glasses aren't worth it!" has no basis in logic.

What things are worth depends entirely on the buyer's budget and interest in the item. My CPU might have been well worth $1000. to me, and in no way worth it to someone else.

Doesn't make either of us "wrong".

Just like a 4850 was worth $196.22 also when you bought it?
http://www.villagephotos.com/v...id_=23753447&selected=

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they HAVE the money.

What does this even mean?

He's implying that because I paid MSRP for the to get 4850 quick my opinions about "value" aren't shared by most.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo
Whether he can, can't or just plain doesn't want to buy them doesn't matter- he's wise enough to recognize making a blanket statement like "These glasses aren't worth it!" has no basis in logic.

What things are worth depends entirely on the buyer's budget and interest in the item. My CPU might have been well worth $1000. to me, and in no way worth it to someone else.

Doesn't make either of us "wrong".

Just like a 4850 was worth $196.22 also when you bought it?
http://www.villagephotos.com/v...id_=23753447&selected=

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they HAVE the money.

What does this even mean?

He's implying that because I paid MSRP for the to get 4850 quick my opinions about "value" aren't shared by most.

:::: Brews Coffee ::::

Need it for the tangents.

 

[nRollo]

One thing I'm starting to believe is sorely lacking in discussions of 3D Vision is that when it works well, you want to replay old games that you may not even have liked a whole lot to start with. (envisions someone posting "I don't want that 3D Vision stuff! It will make me want to play old games I didn't like!")

I just played Serious Sam 2 for half an hour, and my son played it for an hour this morning, and I can guarantee you SS2 would never have been on my PC if I wasn't checking out compatibility of non profiled games. When 3D Vision works well you feel like you're playing the game for the first time and you do things like walk up to a rocket pack spinning in the air and just think "Wow".

This is definitely going to make me change my tune about driver support for legacy games to one more in line with BFG10Ks. I never really cared about old games at all before- I never wanted to play them. Now I'd rather play Serious Sam2 in 3d than whatever the latest greatest is in 2d.

I'm finding mostly great compatibility, but it's like opening the box of socks at Christmas when you come across one that doesn't work well, because you're really curious to see what it "should" look like.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: nRollo
Whether he can, can't or just plain doesn't want to buy them doesn't matter- he's wise enough to recognize making a blanket statement like "These glasses aren't worth it!" has no basis in logic.

What things are worth depends entirely on the buyer's budget and interest in the item. My CPU might have been well worth $1000. to me, and in no way worth it to someone else.

Doesn't make either of us "wrong".

Just like a 4850 was worth $196.22 also when you bought it?
http://www.villagephotos.com/v...id_=23753447&selected=

Unlike yourself many people shop for the things they want even if they HAVE the money.

What does this even mean?

He's implying that because I paid MSRP for the to get 4850 quick my opinions about "value" aren't shared by most.

:::: Brews Coffee ::::

Need it for the tangents.

that you exaggerate and also cause yourself ?


//brews tea

on a related tangent ,, i got my e8600 OC'd to 4.3Ghz - 1.38v; no idea what my q9550s will oc to yet. Getting a solid + for a couple of FPS in a few games


back to the off topic - it just means some of us are able to drop money on a whim .. or a novelty
- actually most people do it .. but they only see OTHERS do it and they tend to complain when it is not "their values"

. . . wouldn't you say that is typical?

i think it will ultimately come down to 3D without glasses vs. with .. and the advantages without are apparent to me
- it just takes longer to find the standard. Nvidia is trying to create it now.

 

[SSChevy2001]

@apoppin

Why you didn't shop for a good price on your 4870 x2 ? I clearly remember you getting yours at BestBuy online for a great price at the time.