"Stereoscopic 3D still sucks"

[Pantalaimon]

I find it some what suspicious how gung ho he is about it. With the video cards he usually settles for the normal marketing speak and spin, but here on top of that he is actually trying to talk people into spending an estimated $600 just to test the product.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I'd love to try out nVidia's 3D vision in a store if they ever have it available to show off, but right now it is still too expensive and from what I see it is a nice tech demo of what is to come, not a fully functioning product that is ready for mainstream use.

The cost is too high, there are too many issues, and there are so few games where it really works well and performance is acceptable. There are also too many image quality sacrifices that have to be made, and people who buy multiple $500 graphics cards, $1000 monitors, etc..... don't make sacrifices.

I'll look into it when the glasses are $49, 24" 120Hz LCDs are available for $199, and the bugs are fixed....

It's because I buy expensive parts that I enjoy this, I want the best.

I've got a 24" 19X12 monitor, a 30" 25X16 monitor, a 47" HD TV, and a 50" HD TV I could be gaming on, I'm using the 22" 16X10 because it offers much higher immersion.

That says a lot- I don't even have to buy monitors you consider better, just hook them up. I don't though.

Stereo vision is going to be one of those things that people are going to have to see for themselves and then make a decision. It's not like a usual video purchase where you can look at reviews, compare benchmarks, and make a decision like that.... this is something (sort of) new that is going to require people to see it for themselves.

Regardless though, it doesn't matter how good the effect is if it doesn't work in a large number of gamers or it has problems in a lot of games. And that is what I am getting out of the early reviews. There are only a few games where this effect is really executed perfectly without too many rendering errors or horrible performance.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Extelleron


Regardless though, it doesn't matter how good the effect is if it doesn't work in a large number of gamers or it has problems in a lot of games. And that is what I am getting out of the early reviews. There are only a few games where this effect is really executed perfectly without too many rendering errors or horrible performance.

Could you link to these reviews?

You see, I'm actually using it and I've played about 20 games now and found problems with very few of them.

I've also found the performance to be very good, as you undoubtedly would with 280 Sli.

 

[Mr Burns]

This stuff for racing games (rfactor, race07 type) and flying is insane. For other things, eh, not so much.

 

[McCartney]

when is the 30' 120HZ Coming out?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: McCartney
when is the 30' 120HZ Coming out?

For this, that would drive people to revolution if the current posts are any indication.

1. About 1% (if that) have 30" monitors. Look at all the posts in this thread/others that boil down to "ZOMG! Times are hard! We cannot spend $600 on such a thing!". You want to make it $1500.?
You and I would buy it, the rest of the board would go berserk. (and report us to GreenPeace and Amnesty International)

2. The scene has to be rendered twice for this to work- make it a 25X16 scene and you get into pretty rare air for PCs that can render it twice. The framerate hit becomes a more real concern.

 

[McCartney]

Well, regardles... When is it coming out?
It has to be soon, I want a top notch 30"

 

[taltamir]

so... anyone been following the OLED development? two oled screens on your glasses or a VERY LIGHT helmet sound like they will be a lot better than a device + special monitor.
And you could have each eye's screen rendered seperately. so you could have 2 GPU working on one and 2 GPU on the other... or 1 on each, for greatly improved scaling on multi gpu...

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron


Regardless though, it doesn't matter how good the effect is if it doesn't work in a large number of gamers or it has problems in a lot of games. And that is what I am getting out of the early reviews. There are only a few games where this effect is really executed perfectly without too many rendering errors or horrible performance.

Could you link to these reviews?

You see, I'm actually using it and I've played about 20 games now and found problems with very few of them.

I've also found the performance to be very good, as you undoubtedly would with 280 Sli.

For one, the Anandtech review.

"In many games we tested there were some serious drawbacks. Even games that NVIDIA rated the experience as "excellent" we felt were subpar at best. Fallout 3 had some ghosting effects that we couldn't fix, and it just didn't feel right for example. Games with an excellent rating most of the time still require reducing some settings to a lower level like FarCry 2 where the lower quality shadows really take away from the experience. If anyone is going out of their way to buy a 120Hz LCD panel, a high end NVIDIA graphics card and a $200 bundle of active shutter glasses, they are not going to be happy when told to reduce any quality settings. But thats just how it is right now.

Other games, like Crysis Warhead, that received a rating of "good" were nothing if not unplayable with stereoscopic effects. Even turning shadows, shaders, postprocessing, and motion blur and using NVIDIA's stereo crosshairs didn't help when there was any fire, smoke, explosion, or water anywhere around. When those effects pop up (which is all the time) everything goes to hell and you can't focus on anything. It just destroys the experience and you get reduced image quality. A great package."


I am sure that the effect is great when it works and that if I ever get to see it that I will be impressed. But that doesn't stop the fact that this product is not ready for mainstream use, it is not ready for the kind of "plug it in and play" kind of gameplay. It is, right now, for people on the bleeding edge who want to try the newest toy. It's not something that you are going to be able to utilize when you pop in the newest game on launch day and expect to play without issues. Someday, when the cost comes down, the product becomes widely available, and the drivers improve substantially, perhaps it will become a reasonable product.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: McCartney
when is the 30' 120HZ Coming out?

For this, that would drive people to revolution if the current posts are any indication.

1. About 1% (if that) have 30" monitors. Look at all the posts in this thread/others that boil down to "ZOMG! Times are hard! We cannot spend $600 on such a thing!". You want to make it $1500.?
You and I would buy it, the rest of the board would go berserk. (and report us to GreenPeace and Amnesty International)

2. The scene has to be rendered twice for this to work- make it a 25X16 scene and you get into pretty rare air for PCs that can render it twice. The framerate hit becomes a more real concern.

#1 simply isn't true, the point is that 1680x1050 and a 22" panel is a downgrade for many people here. And for many its a downgrade they're not willing to accept, including myself. If a 120Hz 30" panel costs $2500 of course the people who wouldn't shell out for a $1500 60Hz panel still wouldn't buy it.

#2 Is each frame actually being rendered twice or is it just being offset and doubled via software? For example, what does a game at 30FPS look like? What does a game at 60FPS look like? Obviously you can't expect most games to run at 120FPS+ even at 1680 FPS, so what do games look like that run between 60 and 120FPS? From what I've read, some of the new 120 or 240Hz LCDs actually are just frame doubling and quadrupling to make things look smoother.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: nRollo

It's because I buy expensive parts that I enjoy this, I want the best.

I've got a 24" 19X12 monitor, a 30" 25X16 monitor, a 47" HD TV, and a 50" HD TV I could be gaming on, I'm using the 22" 16X10 because it offers much higher immersion.

That says a lot- I don't even have to buy monitors you consider better, just hook them up. I don't though.

And that is why you're using a 22" 1650x1050 monitor with no antialiasing instead of a Samsung HL61A750 or Misubishi 65833 at 1920x1080?

After all, it's only money. The more immersive, larger screen is clearly at a price level where immersion, the ultimate feature, is no longer worth it to you. I remember you were willing to deal with LCD drawbacks for a few extra inches of screen real estate in the past for the sake of "immersion." What changed?

The cost of the 61" samsung (roughly 1200 if you look for a sale) is very equivalent to an upgrade outlay someone with an 8800 card, intel chipset board and an existing monitor would need to spend to 'upgrade' to a 1680x1050 22" using 280GTX in SLI for reasoanble frame rates ($400 monitor + $600 cards + $250 nv chipset motherboard + $200 glasses = $1450).

Yes, this is a valid point. Plenty of people have decent monitors they'd have to abandon to upgrade to a 120hz display. Just like you would with have to do with your TV sets in order not to be stuck with a tiny screen. Yet I don't see you running out to get one.

The 3d effect is a nice novelty to play with for a bit. But not hundreds of $ worth of novelty, even to a self-professed made of money and not afraid to spend it on hobbies guy like you.

 

[Ares202]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: McCartney
when is the 30' 120HZ Coming out?

1. About 1% (if that) have 30" monitors. Look at all the posts in this thread/others that boil down to "ZOMG! Times are hard! We cannot spend $600 on such a thing!". You want to make it $1500.?

We dont really care what you buy, if you wrote a (unbiased) review on the new monitor you have im sure alot of people on here would appreciate that, its that your always trying to sell this overpriced trash to us thats the issue for me

 

[McCartney]

I just hope the 30" 120hz comes out soon. 120Hz is a technology I'd like to see regardless of stereoscopic glasses or not.. A better refresh rate would allow vsync caps to be much higher and conversely more multiples of 15 would be in a set of 120 numbers opposed to 60.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: v8envy
And that is why you're using a 22" 1650x1050 monitor with no antialiasing instead of a Samsung HL61A750 or Misubishi 65833 at 1920x1080?

Who says I'm using no anti-aliasing? I use antialiasing.

Originally posted by: v8envy
After all, it's only money. The more immersive, larger screen is clearly at a price level where immersion, the ultimate feature, is no longer worth it to you. I remember you were willing to deal with LCD drawbacks for a few extra inches of screen real estate in the past for the sake of "immersion." What changed?

The cost of the 61" samsung (roughly 1200 if you look for a sale) is very equivalent to an upgrade outlay someone with an 8800 card, intel chipset board and an existing monitor would need to spend to 'upgrade' to a 1680x1050 22" using 280GTX in SLI for reasoanble frame rates ($400 monitor + $600 cards + $250 nv chipset motherboard + $200 glasses = $1450).

Yes, this is a valid point. Plenty of people have decent monitors they'd have to abandon to upgrade to a 120hz display. Just like you would with have to do with your TV sets in order not to be stuck with a tiny screen. Yet I don't see you running out to get one.

The 3d effect is a nice novelty to play with for a bit. But not hundreds of $ worth of novelty, even to a self-professed made of money and not afraid to spend it on hobbies guy like you.

It's not a bad point, and it's possible I will buy a tv this year. I really wish I would have known how cool this was a few weeks before I got it. I would have kept my QX9650/790i/4GB and bought the tv instead of this motherboard.

I'm not "made of money" - I'm just lucky that my wife and I each make enough to pay the mortgage and bills, so I can spend a fair amount on hobbies.

 

[Qbah]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Qbah
Is there any way to find out if those kiosks will also show up outside of US?

I'll ask.

Any news on that? Thanks.

 

[SunnyD]

So here's the deal on Stereovision - according to me - a software dev in a company that is adding support to it for our apps... this is what I hear every time it gets an outing over the cubicle wall:

Time 0 - "Hey, this is kind of cool."

Time + 5 - "I'd like to see this on Halo or Warcraft..."

Time + 30 - "Okay, this sucks. I'm done with it."

 

[AmberClad]

So I got this month's NV e-mail newsletter this morning. They have a Sammy LCD + 3D glasses bundle promo front and center. Not exactly much of a discount :evil:...$598 + S&H.

They do have some additional info pages up though:

Specs for the Sammy monitor and 3D glasses
List of games and how well they're supported (This one would have been a lot more useful if they had actually included some details -- GRAW and GRAW 2 both got mediocre ratings, but there's no explanation given...)

 

[dakels]

I have had a pair of Edimensional LCD 3D glasses sitting in an old box for abut 6-7 years now. The technology at that time was interesting but not that great. Spent $150 and they got about 3 hours of use before I gave up. It just never looked that great and I felt cross eyed most of the time. Driver support kinda sucked back then too.

 

[SirPaulie]

Enjoyed this review -- really enjoyed the reactions of the people that did see it first-hand. The reaction from the girl is price-less to me. Reactions start at the 5 minute mark but the girl was great about a minute later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzApXilpSY

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SirPaulie
Enjoyed this review -- really enjoyed the reactions of the people that did see it first-hand. The reaction from the girl is price-less to me. Reactions start at the 5 minute mark but the girl was great about a minute later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzApXilpSY

LMAO! That chick is hilarious. She looks like she's shadow boxing or having a flashback from a bad trip rofl...

 

[AmdInside]

I've played around with the setup and while the glasses work great, the Samsung monitor sucks for anything but video gaming. The glasses are top quality and don't give me a headache like the older glasses I've played with in the past. I think DLP tv's are a better display to use with the NVIDIA Geforce 3D Vision glasses. The Samsung LCD monitor had terrible colors, 2D text is somewhat soft, and has no built in speakers. I find the 3d effect is much more realistic on a larger screen. I'll probably buy the glasses in the future when a better quality LCD monitor comes out which I can use for more than just gaming.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: AmdInside
I've played around with the setup and while the glasses work great, the Samsung monitor sucks for anything but video gaming. The glasses are top quality and don't give me a headache like the older glasses I've played with in the past. I think DLP tv's are a better display to use with the NVIDIA Geforce 3D Vision glasses. The Samsung LCD monitor had terrible colors, 2D text is somewhat soft, and has no built in speakers. I find the 3d effect is much more realistic on a larger screen. I'll probably buy the glasses in the future when a better quality LCD monitor comes out which I can use for more than just gaming.

The 2d on the Samsung looks OK to me, but playing Left 4 Dead in 2d sure doesn't.

The batteries ran out on the glasses and I tried to play Left 4 Dead without them this morning.

It seems so much worse to play in 2d now I just shut it off, which leaves me sort of locked in to this.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: AmdInside
I've played around with the setup and while the glasses work great, the Samsung monitor sucks for anything but video gaming. The glasses are top quality and don't give me a headache like the older glasses I've played with in the past. I think DLP tv's are a better display to use with the NVIDIA Geforce 3D Vision glasses. The Samsung LCD monitor had terrible colors, 2D text is somewhat soft, and has no built in speakers. I find the 3d effect is much more realistic on a larger screen. I'll probably buy the glasses in the future when a better quality LCD monitor comes out which I can use for more than just gaming.

The 2d on the Samsung looks OK to me, but playing Left 4 Dead in 2d sure doesn't.

The batteries ran out on the glasses and I tried to play Left 4 Dead without them this morning.

It seems so much worse to play in 2d now I just shut it off, which leaves me sort of locked in to this.

I'm not sure that every game would really 'do it' for me in 3D, but I imagine Left 4 Dead would really be a fun game in 3D. Kind of like an 80's 3D horror movie mixed with FPS.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: AmdInside
I've played around with the setup and while the glasses work great, the Samsung monitor sucks for anything but video gaming. The glasses are top quality and don't give me a headache like the older glasses I've played with in the past. I think DLP tv's are a better display to use with the NVIDIA Geforce 3D Vision glasses. The Samsung LCD monitor had terrible colors, 2D text is somewhat soft, and has no built in speakers. I find the 3d effect is much more realistic on a larger screen. I'll probably buy the glasses in the future when a better quality LCD monitor comes out which I can use for more than just gaming.

The 2d on the Samsung looks OK to me, but playing Left 4 Dead in 2d sure doesn't.

The batteries ran out on the glasses and I tried to play Left 4 Dead without them this morning.

It seems so much worse to play in 2d now I just shut it off, which leaves me sort of locked in to this.

I'm not sure that every game would really 'do it' for me in 3D, but I imagine Left 4 Dead would really be a fun game in 3D. Kind of like an 80's 3D horror movie mixed with FPS.

Left 4 Dead is definitely one of the better ones, both in how well it works and what the 3d accomplishes.

I like Bioshock in 3D a lot as well, and my son and I are 3/5 done with replaying Serious Sam 2, and I never thought I'd play that again.