Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: astroidea
I remember having a similar discussion with my GF a while back. Fast forward 3 years, I don't smoke anymore because I think it's bad.
I don't think weed made me perform worse in school, but it did plunder through my ego and my character by making me self conscious and overthink about stupid shit all the time, aka depression.
YMMV though. But I'd be careful not to get caught up in the negative thoughts.
eh.... my opinion on that, is that it is not the drug making it so, just the drug opening the mind to let it come through more.
I can let myself get that way easily, but the issue is... that's not the drug doing it, it's the person letting it happen. All the drug is doing is opening up the person's mind, but the mind itself was already kind of pre-wired for it, but wasn't showcasing it. It's a self-control thing, controlling oneself not to dwell on the negative.
Really, depression is something that everyone is capable of. Some have a brain constructed in such a way that basically makes it an extreme challenge to escape from, others just need a little convincing, either from others or from within. That's life, life can bring about the blues easily. Drugs of all sort, including alcohol, can open up the mind in ways that we aren't normally prepared for, and it takes an individual with a stronger mind to keep themselves in check.
I mean, look at all the extremely out-going potheads. Very hard-working, very interpersonal, yet love to indulge in the green. I've known some very successful potheads, and I've known some very stereotypical potheads.
Drugs are not responsible for anyone getting into any specific mental state, they just make it easier to slip into that mental state if they don't have self-discipline.
You know, when I started having the self-critical thoughts, I viewed it as a great insight to being able to better myself. I tried to change myself, but everything that I changed just made things worse. For the longest time, I thought my change was a part of growing up, until I realized that often when I smoked, the ruminating about the past effects would be greatly amplified.
Now I've read a couple of books on how to get myself out and be able to live happily again. One was a recent book called The How of Happiness, written by a professor who does research on what makes people happy. I can tell you that weed often makes me "slip into the states" that she describes that results in unhappiness, most notably to ruminate on the past. She states that while ruminating on the past may seem like a reasonable way to try to figure out a new solution to bettering oneself, it really only makes things worse. So now I know to really try to control myself from having those self critical thoughts rather than to see them as insights.
BTW, when someone takes E and feel euphoric and empathetic, it's not the drug getting them into the specific mental state? Transversely, if someone is going through the drug down of ecstasy, and is feeling depressed, it's merely a lack of self-discipline? oook.
I do agree that everyone reacts differently with drugs, but most people do get paranoid/self-critical thoughts with weed, or at least from the few people that responded to my survey.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=38&threadid=2323123
So my message is to watch out for the self-critical thoughts and don't be like me and see it as weed opening the mind as great insights.
eh, sorry if I implied every drug. Drugs like E are chemically designed (or, at least that was the effect when the chemical was manufactured) to greatly alter the current neurotransmitter levels. Granted, actually all drugs alter chemical levels, but I think we are discussing two different things. The immediate and following effects (such as the come down) are the way the body translates the NT levels into a mental state.
What I was discussing was the lasting, permanent effects. Those are conditions of a healthy mind, with the correct NT levels. However, without outside influence, the body can get itself into non-baseline NT levels, which can lead to temporary altered states, such as happy, depressed, etc. Those temporary states can over time really build into a new baseline without discipline. Such as, when at home, completely sober, and dwelling constantly, yet you "wake up" when you go to do something, say work, do something social, etc. However, what ends up happening is as soon as people get the chance to relax, they start to dwell again.
While I'm arguing drugs do not directly cause this, they can contribute. And worse is when one dwells on the "happier" times of the past, and connect that with things such as drugs. This is how an addictive personality works, and those types can be the ones that say weed is addicting, or are the ones who seem addicted to it.
I'm not going to lie, I've experienced that for multiple things. It also does not help my likely imagined mild winter blues, because I dwell on all the happy times of summer, even when I've had some amazing experiences in winter. The issue is I dwell, and I'm working on that.
But I will admit that drugs (specifically marijuana), if you let yourself, can let you slip into dwelling while high, and in fact make it very easy to slip into that state. Weed also helps you get very creative in thinking, and all the benefits of the drug can kind of make a nasty mix when you dwell, because it makes it very easy to remember what you thought about, and you think about those things when sober. Keep repeating that cycle, it keeps building up into one nasty mental issue. That is where I was saying it takes discipline, and you found it eventually - finding outside help to get you on the right track. Everyone can come up with their own solution to their problems, and some people can find great success on fixing the problems they dwell on when high, and that success keeps them feeling good, it's that reward system the brain loves. Everyone feels good when they complete a task, finally finish something. Others can find all the things about themselves they need to fix, and envision ways to fix it, but have a hard time actually doing it. I'm one of those people. Hell, I'm great at explaining to others how to fix some things, but fail to implement those same fixes in myself.
I think you and I might actually be very much alike in personality. However, my issue is that I am very much about myself. What I mean by that, is that I want to be responsible for all my successes, all my failures. I have trouble in reaching out for help, I find that to represent failure in myself, and my failures I'd rather turn around on my own. That's the first issue I need to fix.
Some drugs I think need to be very carefully controlled in personal use, which takes discipline. Weed might make everything you do even better, but it has its downsides for some people. It's a great medication, and I'd love it to be legalized to take care of body aches, headaches/migraines/sinus headache, but when doing that, it'd probably be better not to get high, just enough to take the pain away (OTC medications rarely work for the worse pains for me). For the intoxication, just like alcohol, it should be reserved for social purposes. Alcohol, a glass or two, is a great relaxant, but getting drunk at home only leads to problems. It too can lead to introspective dwelling, as I've experienced; I get very insightful when drunk, but the deep conversations are fun though.
I've always been very insightful, love to look within and use experiences in the world to help shape insight and sharpen my mind. One of my biggest pleasures, and has led me, at least I feel, to be a very 'aware' individual, sometimes too much... and it has its problems, which are all stated above. I don't think any external chemicals have ever caused this to be a problem imho, however, they have sharpened those mental processes, which in turn has led to both greater and worse aspects since I've allowed them too.
I also feel it'll make me a better person in the end, better able to be interpersonal with all types of individuals (which I absolutely need to be able to do), but the first step is to get over the negative aspects and move on to a more fulfilling life.
Thankfully, as I'm realizing this, it's the summer, when I am naturally at my peak mental state. I need to sharpen it a bit, condition myself, and carry it throughout the rest of my life. Self discipline in of itself is probably my biggest weakness, and my very near future absolutely demands I fix myself before I ever expect others to take those same steps.
damn, this is what being bored on a Friday nights does - gets me all personal touchy feely on the internets.
And listen to less insightful Incubus songs at moments like this. Seriously, I think I'll blame Incubus's album "Make Yourself" for all my problems. :laugh: