Suggestions please!

[Beerslayer]

Please help me spec out a new computer. I have several, somewhat conflicting requirements:

1) I need a new computer now, for an online college class that starts in a couple of weeks. The one I'm currently using won't cut it.
2) I can't spend a lot now, although I can add or upgrade components over the next few months.
3) I want it to eventually evolve into a gaming computer, so I want to limit the number of parts that will have to be upgraded to achieve this. One of the games will be EQ2, which has had ongoing problems with NVIDIA video cards (possibly related to NVIDIA Northbridge chipsets as well).
4) I want to be able to overclock the CPU. A lot.

I considered an AMD system at first, because I can get a good AMD motherboard with onboard graphics relatively cheaply now and add a video card later. However, I've about decided that AMD processors simply don't have the overclocking headroom that I'm looking for. I really like the idea of being able to (eventually) run a Wolfdale somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 GHz.

I haven't been able to find an inexpensive Intel motherboard with onboard graphics that seems to have good OC'ing capabilities. That means (unless someone can suggest one that I've missed, which would be EXTREMELY helpful) that I'll have to buy a video card, but I can't afford a good one now, and if I get a cheap one I'll essentially be throwing the money away because I'll have to replace it soon. The good news is that EQ2 seems to be very processor-dependent, so a midrange card will probably be adequate.

Regarding the CPU, I think that what I want to do is get a cheap one and OC it, and hope that prices on Wolfdale processors drop enough to cover part of the loss when I replace it.

So, here's what I came up with. The total is $652 plus shipping. This is really about $100 more than I'd like to spend now, but I can't find anyplace else to cut corners without buying something that I'll only keep for a couple of months (other than the CPU).

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L ($100)
This board gets good reviews for quality and overclockability. I keep looking at cheaper boards and keep coming back to this one. If it had onboard video, it would be perfect.

CPU: Intel Celeron 430 Conroe-L ($43)
This is supposedly half of a Core2Duo, so it should perform well. I'm hoping I can get it up near 3 GHz.

Cooling: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro and Arctic Silver 5 ($25)
This gets good reviews as a budget cooler.

RAM: Mushkin 2 x 1 GB DDR2 800 996576 ($51)
This is about $13 more than the cheapest RAM available, but it runs at 4-4-4-12. I don't know whether I'll see much benefit from the faster RAM, but for $13 it seems like a good idea.

Hard Drive: Western Digital SD WD1600AAJS ($48)
This seems to be a fast drive. I don't need a huge amount of storage space now, and I can always add another drive later.

Video Card: Sapphire 100177L Radeon X1950XTX 512 MB ($100)
I'm hoping that this will perform well enough to eventually drive a 22? monitor with most games at medium-ish settings. I definitely don't want to spend more now, and this seemed to have a lot more bang for the buck than any cheaper cards I found.

DVD Burner: Samsung SATA SH-S203B ($30)

Case: Rosewill R5604-TBK
A lot of people here seem to like this series of cases for good cooling on a budget.

Power Supply: Apevia Concord ATX-MR500W ($60)
Oddly (or maybe not), this is the component that I most wish I could upgrade now. I'd really like to get a 650W Corsair, but I can't justify the expense. The Apevia has 32A on a single 12-volt rail, so I think it should suffice even if I eventually upgrade the video card.

Windows XP Pro OEM ($140)



Any and all suggestions/comments/criticism welcome.

 

[Beerslayer]

I'm pulling the trigger on my system this evening, so I wanted to check one last time to see if anyone had a suggestion. The only thing that's changed since my original post is that I'm now considering a WD1600ABYS drive instead of the AAJS.

 

[Roguestar]

Try and see if your budget will stretch to the WD 640GB, it's a much much faster drive.

Don't spend that kind of cash on a DX9 card. Just get something like the AMD 3850 now if you're dead set on not buying nVidia.

Never heard of that brand of PSU, wouldn't trust it as far as I can throw it. Buy something like the Corsair 520HX from Buy.com at $80:
http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/203270716.html

It's worth it to spend the cash ensuring you've got a good power supply. A bad PSU can screw over every component in your system.

Regarding the ram: you'll not notice any difference with those timings. Either save the $13 and get a cheaper 2GB kit, or spend $85 and get 4GB of RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

 

[Beerslayer]

Originally posted by: Roguestar
Try and see if your budget will stretch to the WD 640GB, it's a much much faster drive.

Don't spend that kind of cash on a DX9 card. Just get something like the AMD 3850 now if you're dead set on not buying nVidia.

Never heard of that brand of PSU, wouldn't trust it as far as I can throw it. Buy something like the Corsair 520HX from Buy.com at $80:
http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/203270716.html

It's worth it to spend the cash ensuring you've got a good power supply. A bad PSU can screw over every component in your system.

Regarding the ram: you'll not notice any difference with those timings. Either save the $13 and get a cheaper 2GB kit, or spend $85 and get 4GB of RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

Thanks for the advie... you made some good popnts. You've convinced me regarding the power supply. I wasn't particularly happy with that choice.

The hard drive is tempting... that's a lot more money though. I'm going to have to see if there is some way to squeeze it in.

I'm still on the fence about the video card... I don't plan to install Vista anyime soon so I'm not overly concerned with DX10 support. And I did some more research on the X1950XTX, and that looks like a really great price on a fast card..

I think I'll go with 2GB of cheap RAM to try to free up a few bucks.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

i think u should change ur CPU to a 2180, some people OC this thing to a good 3.2-3.6ghz (stock 2.0)
your GPU should def be a 3850 for around $110 AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102715

 

[DSF]

DX10 support or not, the HD3850 is going to offer a noticeable performance improvement:
http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...l?p=1590%2C1642%2C1615

You can use the drop-down menus to change the benchmark, but you're going to find the 3850 10-30% more powerful no matter what.

I put the 8800GT in the lineup just as a reference to the current standard in video card performance. I know you're not looking at Nvidia.

 

[Beerslayer]

Originally posted by: DSF
DX10 support or not, the HD3850 is going to offer a noticeable performance improvement:
http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...l?p=1590%2C1642%2C1615

You can use the drop-down menus to change the benchmark, but you're going to find the 3850 10-30% more powerful no matter what.

I put the 8800GT in the lineup just as a reference to the current standard in video card performance. I know you're not looking at Nvidia.

Just before I read your post, I googled x1950xtx vs 3850 and I was surprised to see that the 3850 is actually faster in most tests... there is one here on anandtech.

So I decided that the 3850 is the way to go... unless I decide to go all the way to the 3870. I think I need 512 MB, since I want to get a 22" monitor before too long.

The problem is that I simply can't afford to spend this much right now. So I've been rethinking everything... I've about decided that getting an AMD motherboard and cheap processor now may be the way to go, simply because I can get a good motherboard with integrated graphics and a cheap processor for about $100, and then I can afford a Corsair power supply . And maybe even a WD6400AAKS.

[edited: the link to the review on anandtech wasn't showing up for some reason, so I took it out.]

 

[cparker]

Get a 780g motherboard, preferably the gigabyte. You should be able to get one shipped for 90-100 dollars. As to processor, pick up a single core. The le-1640 goes for around 50 at newegg and is a powerhouse at 2.6 ghz stock and can easily go up to 3.0 or higher from the reports I've read, although at 2.6 it's very fast (I have one running on that board on the pc I'm typing on). Also get the earthwatts 380 watt ps. They go for 30-35 these days on sale. Perfectly fine and adequate. You will be one happy camper for a long time to come. For ram, if you can find any of the ddr2 hp rebate offer ram, it will work perfectly fine. Check the hot deals forum here. Should cost you under 15 bucks a gig and it's super ram. 2 sticks should be fine with xp or vista. Personally, I'd go vista route. vista hp for 90-100 bucks either upgrade (see amazon) or oem. Get sp1 version. total cost with os should be under 400, including 65 for the great seagate 250 gb drive that's a best seller at newegg. You'll have a super rig and have lots of fun for years with it. Enough said!

 

[Blain]

Just order a Dell with XP, if it's not too late.
Reason... You want to do too much with too little.
Get yourself a good featured Dell and do a Master-Blaster build in the future when performance is higher and prices are lower.

Originally posted by: cparker
Get a 780g motherboard, preferably the gigabyte.

Did you read his original post?

 

[Beerslayer]

I bought everything last night. Thanks to everybody who helped. Here's what I ended up with:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-M78GM-S2H ($90)
CPU: AMD X2 4400+ ($61)
RAM: Mushkin 2 x 1 GB DDR2 800 996603 ($50)
Hard Drive: Western Digital WD2500AAKS ($63)
DVD Burner: Pioneer DVR-215DBK SATA ($31)
Case: Rosewill R5601-BK ($55)
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-650TX ($110)
Windows XP Pro OEM ($130)

Total with shipping was $624.

 

[Blain]

Sorry to here about the AMD X2 4400 pick. Intel offers so much more for the same price.

 

[Beerslayer]

Originally posted by: Blain
Sorry to here about the AMD X2 4400 pick. Intel offers so much more for the same price.

I know, but the problem isn't the CPU, it's the video card. I can't afford one. I think the AMD will do what I need it to until I can upgrade to a Wolfdale.

 

[cparker]

Just put it together. You will not be sorry, I'm sure of that. The X2 is a great cpu value. What you want isn't speed that you don't need or won't use. You want balance for your, not other people's needs. Also you need to go within your budget. Getting that motherboard was very smart. It's new and state of the art with its integrated graphics and multimedia capabilities (blue ray, hdtv, etc.) When you get it built check the bios version and if it's less than f3 (usually it's f2) flash to f3 using onboard bios utility. Also download the catalyst 8.4 driver set from AMD site. If you've installed 8.3 from the driver cd that comes with the board, be sure to uninstall it first before installing 8.4, or just install 8.4 from the start. You will need to install the lan drivers from the cd before you can use the onboard lan adapter. That's it. Take your time and enjoy.

 

[cparker]

Yes, of course I read it. And his recent ones too. OP stated he needed to save money and was going back to less expensive AMD route. Did I miss something?

Originally posted by: Blain
Just order a Dell with XP, if it's not too late.
Reason... You want to do too much with too little.
Get yourself a good featured Dell and do a Master-Blaster build in the future when performance is higher and prices are lower.

Originally posted by: cparker
Get a 780g motherboard, preferably the gigabyte.

Did you read his original post?

 

[Beerslayer]

Originally posted by: cparker
Just put it together. You will not be sorry, I'm sure of that. The X2 is a great cpu value. What you want isn't speed that you don't need or won't use. You want balance for your, not other people's needs. Also you need to go within your budget. Getting that motherboard was very smart. It's new and state of the art with its integrated graphics and multimedia capabilities (blue ray, hdtv, etc.) When you get it built check the bios version and if it's less than f3 (usually it's f2) flash to f3 using onboard bios utility. Also download the catalyst 8.4 driver set from AMD site. If you've installed 8.3 from the driver cd that comes with the board, be sure to uninstall it first before installing 8.4, or just install 8.4 from the start. You will need to install the lan drivers from the cd before you can use the onboard lan adapter. That's it. Take your time and enjoy.

When I saw how much the video was going to cost, I went back to Newegg and found the Gigabyte board. Then I saw your post, and figured I had made the right decision. I didn't end up with exactly what I wanted, but no one on a budget does, and what I got should be fine for the time being. I'll take a loss when I replace the motherboard and CPU (regardless how well the current setup performs, I still want to make a Wolfdale beg for mercy ). But I don't think I'll be any worse off than if I had gotten any other parts for the same price.

Thanks for the tip regarding the drivers; I never would have known about the newest catalyst driver if you hadn't told me.

I'll post my impression of all the parts and OC'ing results sometime next week. Some people claim to have gotten the 4400+ to 2.8 GHz long-term stable (2.3 stock). We'll see if I can beat that.

 

[cparker]

When I had first set up the system I found that when I tried to play a dvd using the media center it spit out random colored polygons onto the screen. Then I read a post, I think it was a Newegg review of the board, about the catalyst driver, that the old one caused that problem. when I replaced it to 8.4 it was fine. One other thing, be sure to plug your sata dvd into one of the upper sata ports as these will be set to "native ide". Also, if you plug your hard disk into one of the lower sata ports, keep it set to "native ide" (the default setting) before you install the OS, otherwise you'll probably have problems installing the os. You'll get a nag screen about the sata ports being set to native ide when you boot, you can disable the nag screen, but keep it set to native ide, you can change it later if it makes sense, but only after the os with updates, etc. are installed (I still have mine on native ide and it works fine with a vista windows experience index of 5.9 for drive performance with these settings.

Again, have fun, and congratulations! Look forward to your feedback after you've spent some time with the new build.