Supercharged the E60 M5

[Don Vito Corleone]

Yeah, dave went on an epic journey right after delivery. Over 2500 miles before heading back to the US!

He actually doesn't have a supercharged E60 M5. His was still normally aspirated.

Wow - I assumed it had forced aspiration because I wouldn't have thought it was possible to get another 100 bhp out of that drivetrain without a blower.

 

[Apex]

Wow - I assumed it had forced aspiration because I wouldn't have thought it was possible to get another 100 bhp out of that drivetrain without a blower.

It's not easy to do, but yes, you can get an extra 100 hp or so to the crank, normally aspirated.

 

[Dari]

I thought the speed limit for the M5 was limited to 155 mph. So the governor is unlocked for Europe but it will be locked when the car comes to America?

So no one here can answer this question? Not even the OP? Do I have to join an M5 forum to get this answer???

 

[Apex]

So no one here can answer this question? Not even the OP? Do I have to join an M5 forum to get this answer???

The old one (E60) was supposed to be locked to 155 as well, but in reality, didn't clamp down until a speedo-indicated 165-170mph on most cars.

 

[ballmode]

The last gen M5 will always have a special place in my heart

 

[Dari]

The old one (E60) was supposed to be locked to 155 as well, but in reality, didn't clamp down until a speedo-indicated 165-170mph on most cars.

What is the official speed limit in Germany? Or, better yet, what is it regulated to on the new M5? I have this car in my sights but I may hold off for the 2014 version whenl a lot of the small issues are resolved (e.g. clunking sound that may be due to the suspension; lack of side bolsters, unlike European models; next-gen i drive).

 

[MagickMan]

Wow, to be able to afford a facility like that just shows how much luxury automakers like BMW are raping their buyers in the amount of profit one of these vehicles must be making them.

I have to ask. Why do you care? Don't like it? Don't buy a BMW. :hmm:


Apex, I bought an F10, love the car, and I'm knocking around the idea of an ECU upgrade. It's very damned fast now, but, you know, more is better. :sneaky: Problem is, I don't want to completely kill fuel economy, I can easily get mid-20s if I'm not in a hurry. Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[Apex]

The last gen M5 will always have a special place in my heart

Mine too. It's an irrational thing though, and I recognize it. The transmission is mediocre at best, and the engine is thirsty, loud, and high maintenance. However, when you wind it over 8000RPM, it just seems magical.

Side note: 700hp helps.

What is the official speed limit in Germany? Or, better yet, what is it regulated to on the new M5? I have this car in my sights but I may hold off for the 2014 version whenl a lot of the small issues are resolved (e.g. clunking sound that may be due to the suspension; lack of side bolsters, unlike European models; next-gen i drive).

There is no official speed limit in Germany. In the cities, there are very low speed limits, and they make sense considering the congestion, street size, etc. Most major highways have a speed limit between 62 and 75 mph (100 or 120 kph). The autobahn is unregulated.

The F10 M5 is limited at 250 kph (155 mph), just like the E60 M5, and just like the E60, can exceed that speed by a bit before the limiter stops the fun. For markets other than the US, there's an optional package to raise the limited to 305 kph (190 mph).

Read my lips: I absolutely HATE the lack of side bolsters in the F10 seats. HATE HATE HATE that. I slip and slide everywhere.

Apex, I bought an F10, love the car, and I'm knocking around the idea of an ECU upgrade. It's very damned fast now, but, you know, more is better. :sneaky: Problem is, I don't want to completely kill fuel economy, I can easily get mid-20s if I'm not in a hurry. Any thoughts or opinions?

Honestly, it really depends on the software. There is software that's written well, and stuff that's just pure junk. I've had a few different ones on my car, and it's amazing what people will sell these days (some software just has some tweaks to a/f & timing, and that's it).

Well written software should allow you to keep your current fuel economy unless you're absolutely stomping on it, in which case it should only be slightly worse. The ESS software I had on the E60 M5 actually allowed me to gain fuel economy slightly, as it ran very slightly leaner (though still within very conservative limits). This was the case when the car was normally aspirated, as well as after supercharging it.

I'd suggest calling up Eloy at RacePrecision and asking him about it. He's done a good bit of tuning/programming, so he can give you more specifics:

http://www.raceprecision.com/2009/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=30

Ask questions, don't buy until you're satisfied. Software is one of those areas where you don't really want to make mistakes. Trust is critical.

 

[OS]

Wow, to be able to afford a facility like that just shows how much luxury automakers like BMW are raping their buyers in the amount of profit one of these vehicles must be making them.

I'm actually with you on that, I've been to some of microsoft's campuses, a company with pretty fat profit margins, and even they are not as ornate.

Yesterday I was at a honda dealer, so take this with a grain of salt, but the salesman said he came from an MB dealership. He said the last car he sold was a CLS and the profit at the dealership level was ~20%, so you do the math on a ~100K car.
That figure obviously would not include profit at the factory level.

Now, this is not a knock against anyones car, I don't believe in policing anyone's earnings nor financial decisions.
I'm just saying I wouldn't be ok with someone I do business with making that much profit off of me.
I've worked in the defense industry which politics often decries as "pork", but the government customer has the power to come in and tell the company what percentage of profit the company will make.

Nice cars and story regardless.

 

[Apex]

Yesterday I was at a honda dealer, so take this with a grain of salt, but the salesman said he came from an MB dealership. He said the last car he sold was a CLS and the profit at the dealership level was ~20%, so you do the math on a ~100K car.
That figure obviously would not include profit at the factory level.

No offense to the salesman (I was a car salesman at one point in time), but I'd take profit margin statements from them with a grain of salt.

2012 Mercedes CLS63 AMG:

Invoice: $88,257
MSRP: $94,900
Dealer Holdback: $2,847
Destination: $875

So the true cost to the dealership: $86,285
Sale to a total lay-down customer (full MSRP, sold at no discount on a car that's usually pretty discounted): $95,775

That's $9490 of profit, plus profit on add ons and options.

That's about a 10% margin or so.

I could see 20% if it's fully optioned, financing is straight up raping him, and you're stealing his trade-in, in addition to convincing him to buy at full price.

That's definitely the exception, not the rule to the average sale.

 

[OS]

yes excuse me, you are right on that point atleast and that scenario is regardless the dollar cost of the car. I guess the moral of the story here is mostly watch your deals.

 

[sontakke]

But, wouldn't there be extra incentive from MB to clear out the 2012 model? I would assume that amount would be in 8-10K range. Even Acura has to chip in about 4K on 40K list 2012 vehicle.

If we take the year end incentive in to account, the 20% number is possible.

 

[Apex]

But, wouldn't there be extra incentive from MB to clear out the 2012 model? I would assume that amount would be in 8-10K range. Even Acura has to chip in about 4K on 40K list 2012 vehicle.

If we take the year end incentive in to account, the 20% number is possible.

Nope, they have very minor "loyalty" lease deals, but that's pretty much it.