Tainted Grail

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,400
2,845
126
So i've been playing Tainted Grail: The Unnecessary Subtitle.


It's not too far off from "Indie Skyrim", with more focus on fighting than on NPC interactions. Quests likewise seem a lot more limited to "kill X bandits" rather than "sneak into this house and replace this forged letter, then put the stolen ring on the other NPC's bed".
On the plus side, combat is harder than any Bethesda game, you are generally always at risk and need to progress carefully, although minmaxing still produces results.
I see influences of both various MMORPGs and of the Souls games. Your character can be strong if you are timing your parries accurately and always watching your mana and endurance meters, but the instant you mess up you get punished .. often by death.

It's .. cute. Anyone else into this kind of stuff?
 
Jul 27, 2020
25,156
17,498
146
Looks pretty interesting. Kind of like a DX7 game on steroids with high res textures but I can see that they worked hard on having lots of stuff for the player to do.

I don't know about the combat though. I think gaming will "improve" once we can "whisper" to our character on how to fight the enemy and just enjoy the show onscreen in games like this one. Sort of acting like a coach.
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,655
597
126
I enjoyed Spiffing Brit's video of this game, though I think I'm all "funned out" on the TES-style fantasy games at the moment. I can't even bring myself to get excited over the Oblivion remaster because all it reminds me of is that we don't have a Morrowind remaster and even if we do get that, Bethesda will inevitably dumb everything down for the Skyrim fans.

 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,400
2,845
126
i finished the game today, after .. well, i didnt read the hours - but i saved 600 times.

Is it worth it? yes.

Is it perfect? no.

Essentially it's a game very close to what old Morrowind or Oblivion were; you play a first-perspective (3rd option exists) fantasy character and gain XP by killing monsters. When you level up, you get 1 attribute point and 1 skill point. You also have subskills that you improve as you use them, like the TES games.

The skill points .. which really are perks, instead of skills .. are less of "get X bonus with bows" and more "get XYZ bonus with bows if the moon is full". These lead to minmaxing and exploits .. well, the game is built, on the concept of exploits. Think, big dumb sword that requires a ton of points of Strength (leaving little for the other stats) but also does +damage% based on how much your mana bar is empty; couple that with a druid's hat that stops your mana from regenerating (but increased your max mana stat) and another that gives you a shield that takes damage from your mana instead of from your hit points. Voila' sword that has +240% damage.

Monsters hit like a truck, but their AI is quite poor; you also can easily move faster than mobs, and have a instant dodge that regenerates every 3/4 seconds.
You also stun, and stagger, enemies; you have a endurance bar that replenishes almost immediately, mobs telegraph their attacks, so if you know what a mob will do, you just wait, dodge, and rekk them.

Essentially they tried to take the Dark Souls / Elden Ring style, and flesh it out to a full, story-driven RPG. This *does* work for a good portion of the game, but the difficulty scaling is really poor after about midgame, and - no matter what character build you go for - you will be yawning as you plow through hordes of monsters who cannot even touch you.
The XP requirements are also fairly linear, so it's veeery easy to grind yourself to overpowered for anything.

Visually, it's quite nice. There is a good deal of exploration, but not of the particularly adventurous kind. You do have to read the quest lines and pay attention (well, i mean, up to a point), and the game doesn't really hold your hand.

The quests are well designed, and while they all have some form of fail conditions, the majority are fairly straightforward. Keep in mind that, you don't get as much freedom as you get, say, in Oblivion. You can't put stuff in containers, make yourself invisible, jump higher or run faster, charm, frenzy or paralyze NPCs, there is a sneak mechanic but it doesn't get much roleplay aside from allowing you the occasional arrow with extra damage.
I did get a few broken quests, about maybe 3-4, and maybe another 4 that looked like they were broken, but i was able to nudge them forward with a quick read on the wiki.

The story is nice. The voice acting is really good, which helps in the fairly extensive narration. Character are well portrayed, so the crude barbarian in a short and doubtful alliance with the royal guard has a voice that fits, a dialogue that fits, and personal interests that are appropriate to the situation.

Runs fine on my B580.


As others have pointed out on online reviews, this game feels not finished from a design perspective. The groundwork is there, the story works, but the whole package is not fine tuned. I mean, Oblivion too has, to a point, this problem (and others). I am level 41 now in Oblivion Remastered and there is absolutely nothing for me to do because all my primary skills are capped. At best i can grind some levels in something that i have no use for, like Unarmed, but essentially this character is capped in stats, abilities, and equipment - there is nothing for me to work for, despite having half the questlines still open. Basically i just run around helping people for zero benefit.

Tainted Grail is kind-of the same. Sure, you go on a farming run, and come back with another full level and a whole bunch of sellable gear, but i'm Lv 63 and i have been crushing bosses since i was level 40-ish. Monsters can only be so dead.

Also, the game is in 3 acts, and i spent MAYBE 4 hours to finish the 3rd act, then idk, 12 hours for the second, and at least 30, maybe 40 for the first. Because the game is unfortunately designed that way, there is no way to prevent a power creep OR locking a player in an unwinnable situation. The actual gameplay mechanics mixed with the levelling and game stats just are not tuned in any reasonable way.

I have
a power that prevents death 1x day
a second power that prevents death 1x 3.5 minutes of gameplay
a third power that prevents death 1x and rechargeable by killing mobs
a power that limits the max HP i can lose in a single attack to 25%
a spell that drains health from mobs and gives it to me
that stacks with my food regeneration
that stacks with my unlimited-use potions
3x immediate dodge that regenerate in about 3-4 seconds each

and this isn't even beginning to consider how much stronger than mobs you become *quite early on*, and how braindead the mobs are.

So, unfortunately, from a gameplay perspective, it's more of an adventure than a combat RPG, or a combat game in general.

The story, setting, visuals, the acting, characters, dialogue, etc are all very solid and enjoyable. Despite the occasional bug or broken quest, i would still consider this a valid purchase just to play through the story - which is certainly better than what Skyrim or Oblivion have managed to come up with. Dialog choices are not as black & white as Bethesda games, as in, you need to have some idea of who you are talking to.

I really can't tell you to pay Steam full price because, well, it's not worth it. But maybe twenty bucks, considering how long a playthrough it, then yeah.
The good parts - early on, when you are still trying to figure out what is happening around you and how to survive in this hostile world, are really worth it.
 
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