Take this, you Athiests!!

[LadyJessica]

<< If I go to Hell after a lifetime of being good for people, respecting other's beliefs, etc., then I am going to be one pissed off mofo when I get there. >>



You and at least 80% of the world's population to have ever lived.

 

[Elledan]

<< I see your point about buddha, but if buddha is not dead, where is he? (i don't want to sound condescending, i really want to know) >>


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/buddha.html#last

The Buddha's parting words

Then the Blessed One addressed the monks, &quot;Now, then, monks, I exhort you: All fabrications are subject to decay. Bring about completion by being heedful.&quot; Those were the Tathagata's last words.

Then the Blessed One entered the first jhana. Emerging from that he entered the second jhana. Emerging from that, he entered the third...the fourth jhana...the sphere of the infinitude of space...the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness...the sphere of nothingness...the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception. Emerging from that, he entered the cessation of perception &amp; feeling.

...

Then the Blessed One, emerging from the cessation of perception &amp; feeling, entered the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception. Emerging from that, he entered the sphere of nothingness...the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness...the sphere of the infinitude of space...the fourth jhana...the third...the second...the first jhana. Emerging from the first jhana he entered the second...the third...the fourth jhana. Emerging from the fourth jhana, he immediately was totally Unbound.

 

[Zzzt]

I kept telling myself,&quot;I'm not getting into this one... Nope. Nope. Nope.&quot;

So here's my 2 cents.

How many true believers here have said that they don't believe in a hell? How about believing that Buddhists, Muslims and Jews &quot;are correct&quot; also? If you believe in Jesus as Christ and your savior, you MUST also believe that there is a hell, and everyone who doesn't SPECIFICALLY believe in Jesus as his or her savior is going to hell. If the bible was written by god using the hands of men, the bible is the absolute truth in EVERY WAY.

That means that if someone pokes out your eye, you have the right to poke out his. Uh.. or is that something about turn the other cheek... I guess God changed his mind. Anyone can make a mistake, right? He's perfect? Oh. How about God made the rainbow as a covenant to man that he would never flood the earth again. Was he sorry? Why would he give us something so beautiful after punishing us? Was he wrong? Can a perfect being be wrong? Something else about the rainbow - Was water not transparent before then? Light entering a raindrop bends due to refraction. Refraction only happens in transparent materials. Since the rainbow was made after the great flood, either water was not transparent before the flood, or there was no rain before the flood. I'm sure that there are many references to the transparency of water and the presence of rain before the flood, so that is also BS. How about Cain and Able. Cain took a wife FROM ANOTHER TRIBE. How could that be if the only humans were Cain, Able, Adam and Eve? There are quite a few more examples of the bible being wrong. How can it be wrong if a omniscient being wrote it? The being must either not be omniscient or the book is merely a collection of stories by people that belong in rooms with rubber walls. If this book is false, and a religion was built around it, the religion is false. There is no god.

Religions have always died when they ran out of excuses. Their problem has always been that they explained natural events with very specific supernatural causes. Zeus being angry and throwing his lighning bolts around. The sun was Apollo riding his fiery chariot across the sky. As soon as these fallacies were recognized, the religion fell. Christianity is based on what a few people reported 2000+ years ago. A few. Everything in this newer religion is based on faith.

Webster's definition of faith:

Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.

Don't you see? This religion was built to last because it states nothing to prove that it exists!! Everything is based on faith - belief with no proof. Why do people have to continuously work on their faith? My opinion is that these people know the truth, but immerse themself in their religion so that they can feel guided by the hand of god. The idea of just ending when we die is scary. The idea of no path layed before us is scary. The idea that we only have ourselves to rely on is scary. The idea that there is no safety net is scary. Belief in the Christian god takes away these fears, even though the reasons for those fears remain.

Can anyone argue with me using something other than,&quot;You just have to have faith?&quot;

 

[isildur]

yes

 

[Urinal Mint]

Zzzt: Well said... if religion helps people get through the day, I don't have an issue with that. Just don't condemn me for being a free-thinker and going my own route.

Sometimes is appears that religion causes more problems than it does good for people... just look at the Middle East.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< yes >>

That's about what I have to answer as well.

 

[isildur]

Hmmm - to even refer to that post as an &quot;oversimplification&quot; would be to oversimply the degree of the infraction.

Humans cause problems, regardless of what they believe - belief systems are both excuses and scapegoats for aberant behavior.

Do some belief systems encourage anti-social behavior? Sure!
Are some of them &quot;religions?&quot; Sure!
Does this mean &quot;religions cause nothing but problems?&quot; No!

Find one single instance where a &quot;religion&quot; has done something good, anything good, and this statement is bunk.

That shouldn't be too hard...

 

[Zzzt]

Good point, isildur. That is the best arguement for religion. State that you disagree, and offer no valid reason.

Edit - one finger typing with very sloppy piece of pizza in hand makes typing errors!!

 

[isildur]

Hey, you asked a &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot; question!
Don't like the answer? Be more specific!

LOL

jeeze man, lets all take a deep breath here!

 

[Zzzt]

Sorry isildur, I honestly thought that you were making that point... I apologize.

 

[isildur]

You know, I was tempted to hit on the typing, but your explanation is more than good enough for me.

I wish my typing was impaired for the same reason!

 

[isildur]

Ha!

Gotta love electronic messaging; so easy to misunderstand tone/intent!

 

[Zzzt]

isildur - YGPM

 

[MustPost]

This doesn't have anything to do with religion, but on the first page a guy linked to an article which doctors think 75 percent of the time antidepressents work is from Placibo.
I disagree with that there were double blind tests don't with Prozac and they have shown it is sugnificantly effective. Not that placibo isn't effective, just not as much a Prozac.

 

[Aihyah]

Let me ask you this: Out of all the religions in the world, what has happened to their leaders? Buddha is dead, so is Brigham Young, and so are all of the leaders of each religion. Except Christianity. Jesus died for our sins, but then he rose from the dead. Think about it. Jesus is the only one to conquer death, and in doing so, he proved his omnipotence and also proved that he is the creator.


hehe, l ron hubbard is still alive i think... so that one goes out the door based on faith his teachings have the same amount of validity as anything else.

 

[JesusCow]

<< Maybe it just feels longer >>

hahahahahhahahahahhahaahh

 

[TaylorD]

&quot;I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.&quot;
             --Stephen F Roberts

 

[isildur]

eloquence can often disguise flawed reasoning

 

[Urinal Mint]

Likewise, flawed reasoning is often mistaken for the truth.

 

[TaylorD]

if you disagree, at least explain yourself...

Respond with something of substance, don't just discredit the quote because it was eloquent... unless you have nothing to counter with.

How is the reasoning flawed?

What makes your God better than the Gods of other religions?
If you don't believe in the Gods of other religions, why do you believe in yours?

Because you were raised to believe in that God

 

[troglodytis]

engine tells us: ... the reason why non-Christians are labeled goats is because goats are very stubborn animals...

actually goats aren't very stubbord at all. they are animals that decide for themselves what they want to do and tend to do whatever it takes to do what they want. on the same hand they are usually quite cooperative as long as you do not make unreasonable requests. i have raised goats and sheep most of my life and find the goats loving and enjoyable creatures.

here's something crazy.... the easiest way to move sheep is to herd them. the easiest way to move goats is to walk up through the group, petting and saying 'hi' and then start walking where you want to go. then the one or two goats will start following(usually the most friendly) and the rest will tag along, too. well, ok....the easiest way to move either group of animals is with a bucket of grain!


so really, the whole goat and sheep thing is quite inaccurate.

eidt: typos typos cha cha cha

 

[NeoHC421]

<< Zzzt: Well said... if religion helps people get through the day, I don't have an issue with that. Just don't condemn me for being a free-thinker and going my own route.

Sometimes is appears that religion causes more problems than it does good for people... just look at the Middle East. >>



i wasn't condemning you, rather i was stating that you will be condemned by God on judgement day. You yourself acknowledged that hell exists, so then what are the requirements to get into hell, if you don't believe in what Christianity teaches about heaven and hell?

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but when i discover something phenomenal, i don't keep it to myself. Instead, i tell everyone i know about it. Like Krispy Kremes. You can't eat them and not tell others.
You can believe whatever you want to believe, but don't YOU condemn me because i want others to share in my joy and tell them about my savior. Think about it, if you kept good things to yourself, the hot deals forum would not exist. IMO, i believe eternal life is the HOTTEST DEAL of them ALL. Never did i force my religion on anyone. All i did was offer the way to heaven according to my God.

 

[Urinal Mint]

I have eternal life so long as I live on in the hearts and memories of those I've touched during my life. I don't need a dogma to tell me that.

 

[datalink7]

<<
Believe it or not, that was one of my doubts that i once harbored. I used to ask myself, &quot;What if this is it? Sin feels so good, why not indulge? And for a time, i did. Later i realized that that part of me was just making excuses to sin. I was being tempted and lied to by the devil. But, as i said earlier, there were many times when i doubted God, yet he has shown me time and time again that he is real and he is God. This put to rest any notion in my mind that there is no God. I know in my heart that there is a God. And i worship the one true living God. He has performed so many miracles in my life, and i cannot call them coincidences because God is in control, so that means there is no such thing as a coincidence. God planned it that way. I know that it is hard to swallow, but my way of thinking requires faith. But that is also the hardest part of it all: you gotta believe. There comes a point in your life when all your ambitions, all your goals, everything that you thought would make you happy in your life, doesn't. You feel empty inside, and no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, it won't go away. I'll tell you something: that emptiness was created by God so that in your desparity, you would search for God. I do not know when or if you will ever come to that realization, but i think most of you know what i am talking about. And most of you are probably still seeking to fill that hole. So you try to fill it with pleasures, with a gf/wife, with tv, or sports, or... computers... whatever it is that you idolize. You may think i am fanatical, and if you do, i say, thank you. Because unless i am different and set apart from this world, i will not know that i am truly a Christian. It says in Romans 12:2 &quot;Do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is: his good, pleasing and perfect will.&quot; Therefore, all of you that are hard-hearted towards the church because you felt unaccepted or rejected, just know that you were not exposed to Christianity, but rather a crude wanna-be religion. They have conformed to the world and fallen away from God. If the sermons are boring and the praise seems dead, the spirit is not moving in that church, and that church is dead. When you experience a true church, you will know it. If this is you, i encourage you to give God another chance. I know he has and will give you infinately more chances, because he has done so for me, even when i have spit in his face. >>



NeoHS:

Don't worry. I hope never to stop giving religion or God a chance. I hope to stay open. It just doesn't make since to me at the moment, so I don't believe. I am not anti-religion or anything. I work at a church and I get along with everyone there just about. Nice people trying to do nice things.

But I do have a suggestion for you (I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, because I do mean it in the best since): don't give up on doubting!. I hope to impart onto you the importance of doubt in faith (doh! Now I sound arrogant I don't have faith but am telling how to have it. Bear with me). How to say this... This is how I have worked it out in my mind. I have had many discussion with my mom, who is religious, and the pastors at the church where I work. I have come to understand (or so I believe) the importance of doubting in faith. If you have no doubt, then I don't think you have faith anymore. For if you don't doubt, than you have knowledge. Knowledge that God exists, that Gods existance is the truth. But if you have knowledge, then you don't have faith. For faith is believeing without knowing. So if you have knowledge (beliefe without doubt), then you no longer have faith. By having the &quot;knowlege&quot; that God exists, you no longer can have any growth in your faith. You already hold the &quot;truth.&quot; But what is the &quot;truth&quot; that you hold? It is the truth that you have created. An image created by your mind, an idol of knowledge. No longer do you believe in God, but you believe insted in this image, this knowledge, this truth that you have created. You are worshiping this instead that which you should be worshiping. You know Doubting THomas? God/Jesus did not turn away from him for doubting. No, instead he gave him the evidence that he wanted, and Thomas' faith grew. I think that those greatest in their faith emulate doubting Thomas. I have seen people grow in faith by doubt.

This is what I hope to impart to you. I know the above might sound arrogant, considering my own lack of faith, but I do mean the best. Don't give up on doubting. Keep it with you and you will grow.

Please Give my message good thought, as I gave thought in writing it. Even if you disagree

 

[Degenerate]

no one has proven that god exists or dosent , so its really anyones opinion. respect it. period.