Teachers pay is a disgrace.

[Vic]

Originally posted by: prvteye2003
Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

It ain't what you make... it's what you spend.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: tec699
I?ve brought this issue up from time to time and I feel it needs revisiting. Teachers are inadequately paid. Plain and simple. Take a look at the starting salary from state to state and you?ll find that in most states teachers are starting off at a measley $27,000 a year. They max out in the mid $40,000 and the starting teacher?s salary that I just mentioned is for the mid-west and south. On the east and west coast teachers start off between $36,000-$42,000 We max out in the mid $60,000 Some of the wealthier districts even go as high as $80,000 Now you might think that this is great but you have to realize that NJ is an expensive state to live in. I?m talking $400,000 houses, $8,000 a year property taxes, $2,000 car insurance, etc? That $40,000 starting salary isn?t so hot after all. Also, to get up to the mid $60,000 range your talking 15+ years of teaching. I have buddies that have business degrees. Their starting salary was comparable to a teachers starting salary but they quickly shot up to the mid $60?s in a few years while a public school teacher's salary increases so much slower. I?m talking a few thousand every 3-5 years. Teachers do have a great benefits package though.

So what am I trying to say? It amazes me that I have to go to a 4 year college like everyone else and I?ll have to endure the low teachers pay while my peers will be making double my salary. The people that would make great teachers are driven out of the education field due to the low pay. For instance, my dads buddy was telling me that he has a cousin that graduated with her masters degree in education. She is a single mother with 2 children. She got a job last year as a 1st grade teacher at a public school in South Carolina. Her starting salary was $24,000 How the hell can you survive on this paltry salary in today?s society and especially when children are involved? It?s a damn shame because she left at the Christmas break and immediately got a job working with computers starting at $60,000 a year. The public schools in South Carolina lost another good teacher.

Now I know what most are thinking to themselves? Teachers get the summers off and leave at 3pm everyday. That?s not fully correct. For example, I had to teach a lesson on primary and secondary colors to kindergarteners. I spent $20 of my own money and 3+ hours working on this project. I made an interactive learning center, poems, worksheets and handouts, and the actual lesson plan. These activities take time to prepare. I loved setting up and constructing the activities. It was a lot of fun but imagine doing this 3-4 times a week? I only did one lesson and it took some time to complete. Of course, as time progresses and I get the experience I?ll spend less time on my lessons. Plus, I?ll be able to save my activities for future use so the time shaping my lesson will decrease. Summers also aren?t just a relaxing time for most teachers. There are some teachers that go back to college in the Summer and they take the recommended courses that their district say that they need to take. Some take on Summer jobs to supplement their incomes but why should they have to do this? Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case.

Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

 

[Jumpem]

I think they are over paid. They have summer's off, so to since they only work 3/4 of the year they only deserve 3/4 of a normal salary. On top of that most teachers (except for high school teachers that teach science, math, etc.) are for the most part idiots.

 

[RobCur]

Seems like almost all teachers in public school complains about low pay but as soon as they get a raise;they complain about having to pay more in taxes which is less then what they would be getting after taxes if being paid less. :shocked:

 

[tec699]

 

[Dragnov]

teachers get paid so little because for the most part it is simply one of the easiest majors to graduate with if this somehow changed than their salaries would be adjusted accordingly

There is no such thing as a "teaching major". Sure you can get an education major or minor, but that doesn't make you a teacher. You still have to attend a teaching credential program and get your certificate there on top of your BA/BS. Then you go through a year or so of unpaid full-time "internships". Only then you get to apply for a teaching job where you start of rock bottom.

 

[UglyCasanova]

So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

Wow, $200,000 is a helluva lot of house around here. Anyways, I switched majors from Computer Sciencs to Graphic Design because it is something that I love to do. I don't bs myself into thinking that I am going to be living the lifestyle of someone who comes out of college with an engineering or cs degree, but I will be doing something that I enjoy. Hopefully I can claw my way up to a decent income in a few years, but for now I guess I just have to accept the reality of the situation.

 

[JoeKing]

For those of you that are trying to apply a free market model on school funding, stop. Funding is based on local area taxes. Havn't you ever wondered why the richer neighborhoods usually have the nicer schools in them (I'm sure some of you know since you've been defrauding the system). Next, some of you say the job is so easy. I'd like to see you keep 20-30 kids interested and under control for 7 hours everyday. I bet the teachers spend more time with your kids everyday than half of you do. How much do parents pay babysitters an hour? Lets be conservitive and say $10 an hour per kid (parents out there please correct I know my figure is way off)? Let's see a teacher who is expected to not only educate, but insure the safety of other people's children makes about $2 an hour per child.... hmmm somthing seems a little off there. Now lets look at private schools, they inherently have an advantage, perhaps the single most important advantage, the parent who forks over extra money and sends their child to private school cares more about their childs education than the douchbag parents in public that send their child to school without a lunch, school supplies, or the simple drive to succeed.

These threads really piss me off, it just goes to show the attitude people have toward education. Education is the single most important resource we have and it's always the first to be sacrificed.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: prvteye2003
Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

A 4 year college degree doesn't mean you still be able to afford to "keep up with the joneses."
You still have to live within your means. I just bought a $165k house and I feel that even that could have been lower.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: tec699
So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

A teacher has one of the easiest degrees there is to obtain. Why should a teacher earn the same as someone who has an engineering or some other more difficult degree?
Just because they spent 4 years in college, too? It DOES matter what you spent your college years learning....it isn't enough to simply go to college.

IMO, teachers have a pie job, money aside. They make a decent living, have great benefits, and have more time off than even bank employees do.
So don't cry to me about having to work an extra hour or two grading test papers....not like that's an everyday event.
You still don't work as many hours as someone with a regular year-round job, regardless.

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: tec699
Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case.

Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

Agreed. I own a new house and a car and I'm living on $20k a year before tax. I make it by. It sucks, yep, but I make it. Maybe time to move to a new location?

Originally posted by: tec699
So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

Yep, $200k is a DAMN NICE house where I'm at!

 

[adelphi]

it's time to consider casino dealer school then

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: tec699
Dr Pizza...

The starting salary for public school teachers in America aren't uniform. You can start off at a higher rate in NJ then you can in South Carolina. I brought this up in my initial post. It's all realitive though. NJ is an expemsive state to live in, so naturally the pay is going to be better.

Also, in your first paragraph your talking about the No Child Left Behind Act. Because of this federal law public schools are going to have a hard time finding qualified teachers in the secondary level. There is already talk that they might water it down a little so we shall see.

You don't have to tell me that, I'm a teacher. What I'm referring to is that within any given district, the starting salary is pretty uniform. They don't start elem ed teachers at 20k, English teachers at 24k, and so on... They all start at the same salary in the same district. (occasionally, some may start up a step or two based on experience)

 

[wyvrn]

But, nonetheless, school boards are able to hire the teachers that they need in most cases, even with paying them crap.

Of course look at jzero's numbers. There are major perks like pensions. I'll never receive a pension in my life. I have to save for retirement aggressively, which right there cuts a big chunk out of my income. Teachers don't really need to bother much with that. Their job security is generally exceptional as well.

Problem with paying crap is getting lower quality. It would be great if we had unlimited income and let the market decide for itself, but govts don't have that luxury.

Pensions aren't really all that anyway, I have seen some that have mediocre returns.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: jyates

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'll chime in with my opinion (since I'm a teacher)
In my opinion, some teachers are over-paid, while others are underpaid - it's not universal. Someone above mentioned that there is no teaching shortage - incorrect. There's a shortage of qualified math and science teachers. In NY, and I believe PA, secondary education teachers must have a MAJOR in the field that they wish to teach, not a major in education. Education is a minor. Some schools do have programs where the major is watered down a little though.

I was the one who said there were no shortage of teachers and I'm stating what I know
about my local area. Most people who have education degrees have to move out of my
home area because all the local schools have full staffs and they have to move to other
areas in order to get a teaching job.

Defintely the money (if that is what a person is chasing) is in administration. You can make
some really big money being a super or vice super in my area (compared to most other jobs
in this area).

What they are doing right now is patching the problem in your area by setting the requirements but
I believe the wages of teachers will rise as soon as the school systems run out of ways to patch the
system and there is a real overall teacher shortage. They will have to throw more dollars at people
in order to get them to come and live and teach in their area.

My utmost respect goes out to the folks who really have a heart for teaching because the way that most "families" support their young people the poor teachers are fighting a virtually hopeless battle.

Hmmmmm..... according to the first few sources I clicked on, there's a teacher shortage in Arkansas in several subject areas. Maybe you have a myopic view of the world and "your area" is defined arbitrarily small, as in your city? Regardless, the starting pay in Arkansas is pretty low.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: tec699
Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case.

Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

Agreed. I own a new house and a car and I'm living on $20k a year before tax. I make it by. It sucks, yep, but I make it. Maybe time to move to a new location?

Originally posted by: tec699
So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

Yep, $200k is a DAMN NICE house where I'm at!

I guess you haven't been to NJ. A $200,000 house is paltry. Most people pay $300,000 and much higher for homes in Jersey.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Vic
No. They are paid adequately.

First, there is no shortage of teachers. That should be your first sign that their pay is sufficient.

Second, their benefits are top-notch. Paid retirement benefit plans, paid health care even for spouses and children, all worth tens of thousands per year on top of their base salary.

Third, public school teachers make more in salary and benefits (on average) than private school teachers, and yet children can get a better education at a private school.

That is all.

Pay for a teacher I know where I'm at starts at 27k - benefits for family health and dental cost them 700$ a month. 27000-(12x700)-(taxes) = not a lot.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

What about police officers, most of them don't earn much more than teachers, and they risk their lives daily for the low pay.

 

Summers off.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
What about police officers, most of them don't earn much more than teachers, and they risk their lives daily for the low pay.

teachers risk their lives as well. Columbine comes to mind.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
What about police officers, most of them don't earn much more than teachers, and they risk their lives daily for the low pay.

teachers risk their lives as well. Columbine comes to mind.

Oh Jesus, well in that case I suppose everyone risk their lives just by simply waking up in the morning and stepping outside.

 

[RaiseUp]

Sucks for you.

 

[vegetation]

Well the smart teachers take advantage of the system by taking additional courses and earning their masters, and eventually their doctorate in education. Guess what, they don't become teachers anymore and end up in administrative positions, earning 100k+. Ambitious folks can do this within ten years of starting their teaching career, so there is a window of opportunity if a regular teacher wants to earn more money, they just have to work for it instead of sitting around and complaining.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: homestarmy
That's not correct. College professors teach a total of maybe 4 classes, total under three hours per week each, that's under 12 hours actually teaching PER WEEK.

Now that's a great job. That's why I want to go for my masters.

Real college professors teach 5 classes a year (at Rutgers anyway) and are expected to perform research. I know for a fact that the tenured professors who teach the MBA and PhD programs at Rutgers work 80 hours a week. They told me when I met with some of them 1 on 1 and they have the C.V.s to prove it.

No university worth their salt has a lot of non-PhDs teaching. PhDs are tied to research which is tied to rankings.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: homestarmy
There's no way that professors, at least at my college, put in anything near 40 hours. There are no labs in most majors. They just get up there and talk about what they know about already. They just need a basic idea to start with in many cases.

As far as I know, UCF isn't a research institution. It's a very new school, and has yet to receive accreditation in many areas. That might be part of the reason.

Then again, as has been said, much of a professor's time is spent working outside of the classroom.

UCF is a fully accredited state college. Actually, it is in the top ten universities in the country as far as size is concerned.

I'm sure some spend that much time. I guess its just that I got a good handfull of them who OBVIOUSLY didn't.

BS UCF is no way an overall top 10 school as far as size is concerned. Maybe is some obscure catagory.