Teachers

[HAL9000]

At the college I went through, all teachers had to take education, psychology and a semester of student teaching. From what I can see, this is so they can be judged on how well they actually teach unlike how it seems college professors are hired for simply having a doctoral degree (or being in the process of getting one).

A fair point, in the UK you have to have a PGCE qualification (Not sure what it stands for too lazy to google) Essentially a qualification that says you are qualified to teach.

In regards to Alabama, which was probably shown in the worst light on their Rent-a-Car special, what they showed is not far off. The thing you have to realize is that they showed a rural section in southern Alabama. If you stick with the larger cities (Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile, Huntsville -- largest in that order), then you'll be fine.

Interesting, I really do want to go.

 

[qliveur]

It's a special kind of loser who gets off by power-tripping on other people's children.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Both of my mothers were grade school teachers. One of them never made more than $45k with 20 years of experience. The other just retired last year; her highest paid year I think she was making around $65k with 40 years of experience. Considering the hours they worked, I'd say they were underpaid for the majority of their careers (though my mother who recently retired was only working 1 day a week last year for considerably less than her earning potential if she'd been working full time).

And whoever said it's a low-stress level job? Corralling 35 8-year-olds is not exactly the most low-stress thing to do. Try it some time. It sucks.

 

[slugg]

I say underworked and underpaid.

1) They get too many dipshit students. This forces them to dumb down their teaching style.
2) Because of this, they can't blossom to their full potential.
3) If you're not working at your full potential, you're underworked.
4) School should be year round - taking 3 months off is a load of bullshit.

If they would just kick out all the delinquent, dipshit, idiot students, then we'd have better teachers that make more money. Maybe finally we'd have a public education system that works. BUT THAT'LL NEVER HAPPEN.

I'm a firm believer of private education. Public schools don't have an incentive to do well, but private schools function like any other business. Bad teacher? They're fired. Good teacher? They get a raise. It's that simple and it works.

The problem with private institutions is that my tax money pays for the public ones, but none of that money (my money!) would go toward private education tuition. If all education was privatized, then everyone would be able to afford it. Yup - you read that right. Everyone could afford private education if all public schools were abolished! Why? Because since they'd run like any other business, they'd follow the simple concept of supply and demand. If there is a demand for frugal, inexpensive education, then someone *will* offer it.

I live in Florida. We have the worst public education system in the country. Maybe if it didn't suck so bad, teachers would make enough money and would be allowed to do a good job. Most teachers here are very good; it just so happens that our laws and policies hold everything back. If you think outside the box, you're fired.

 

[thraashman]

Having known many teachers in my adult life, I can say without question that they're overworked and underpaid.

 

[slugg]

Having known many teachers in my adult life, I can say without question that they're overworked and underpaid.

They're definitely over busy-worked. 50% of the work a teacher has to do is not, in any way, related to teaching. It's one of the many problems with the system. I agree they're overworked and underpaid in that regard. It's not their fault.

Just about the only "good" teaching job is being a university professor. Once you're tenured, it's your show. Not exactly an easy job, but it's education in its purest form, if you ask me.

 

[Aharami]

Yes, b/c they work a full year during the school year.

People don't consider that grading, meeting with parents, etc are all things that happen after school hours.

Try grading 150 essays over the course of a week. Ten minutes a paper including comments/feedback? 25 hours just for that.

what kind of shitty school has 150 kids to one class?! I have a friend who's a teacher. She teaches Kindergarten, has a masters, and 7 yrs exp. She makes 60K/yr. I think she's making adequate amount considering the benefits she gets (full medical and pension), the job security she has (tenure...extremely hard to be fired), and the guaranteed raise every year!

 

[gothamhunter]

what kind of shitty school has 150 kids to one class?! I have a friend who's a teacher. She teaches Kindergarten, has a masters, and 7 yrs exp. She makes 60K/yr. I think she's making adequate amount considering the benefits she gets (full medical and pension), the job security she has (tenure...extremely hard to be fired), and the guaranteed raise every year!

Oh man, full medical, pension, and tenure would be awesome.

 

[xanis]

Oh man, full medical, pension, and tenure would be awesome.

I'd give my left arm to have that right now.

 

[Skillet49]

The good teachers are overworked and underpaid. Both my mom and my mother-in-law are high school science teachers, and they both work their butts off for their students. They frequently work into the evening hours grading tests and homework assignments, preparing labs or creating labs. They put in a ton of work during the summer preparing for the next school year. And then how does the school system reward them? By switching up the classes that they have been teaching for years. My Mother-in-law is 2 years away from retiring and they decided to give her entirely new classes this year because they think students will learn better if all the teachers have new courses, not keeping in mind the fact that she is constantly revamping what she teaches to make it even better than the previous year. The Envirothon Team (science competition team) at her school has won the state competition 5 times since she has been coaching the team, which is more than any other coaches in the state. The same thing has happened to my mom where they took away some of her classes and gave them to another teacher just because the teachers had a master's degree in that concentration. Nevermind the fact that the students were actually learning and doing well. Now they all complain about having the other teacher.

Yes, there are many crappy teachers, and that is unfortunate. But as others have said, the incentives for people to be great teachers are low as the pay sucks (usually) and it's not like they get performance-based bonuses or anything like that. The crappy teachers get paid the same as the good ones.

 

[Aharami]

As for the classes, she has regular math/reading seminars. She also had two technology seminars this summer. One was training on using the new smartboards that were provided for the classrooms, and one was on iPads (don't ask me why they're giving these kids iPads to use :thumbsdown

And that's whats wrong with the education system - the fucking administrators! WTF? a $500 ipad for each student when the teacher is only making $30K?!? If they have no budget to increase salary, how the fuck do they have the budget to buy an ipad for every kid?!

 

[qliveur]

The crappy teachers get paid the same as the good ones.

That's the root of the problem right there.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

If you don't count all the classes they're required to take every year to maintain their teaching certs...

what classes are you talking about?
a couple of my close friends are teachers in different towns and they've never taken a class in the 4 years they've been teaching.

one teachers summer school for extra income, the other travels a lot during the summer.

 

[qliveur]

In a lot of states they have to get their master's in order to receive tenure.

 

[Skillet49]

And that's whats wrong with the education system - the fucking administrators! WTF? a $500 ipad for each student when the teacher is only making $30K?!? If they have no budget to increase salary, how the fuck do they have the budget to buy an ipad for every kid?!

If I were to guess, they probably got the money to buy the ipads from a grant and the school district is not paying for them.

 

[PrinceofWands]

In a lot of states they have to get their master's in order to receive tenure.

In a lot of states you need it just to get your permanent license.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Well no, not at all that makes absolutely no sense what so ever, in the UK a private school teacher get's a hell of a lot more than a public school teacher.

With rich parents paying for their kids to go the school, obviously the school has a lot more money.

now you know why the US system is broken.
my taxes are sky high because teachers refuse to take a pay freeze and contribute 1.9% to medical benefits.

 

[HAL9000]

now you know why the US system is broken.
my taxes are sky high because teachers refuse to take a pay freeze and contribute 1.9% to medical benefits.

Don't get me started...

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Yes, b/c they work a full year during the school year.

People don't consider that grading, meeting with parents, etc are all things that happen after school hours.

Try grading 150 essays over the course of a week. Ten minutes a paper including comments/feedback? 25 hours just for that.

so calculate the hours worked over the course of a year.
what is it? close to 2080?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

1) Teachers here in NC (at least my wife's school system) have to take classes to keep their certification
2) Can't really make blanket statements for all teachers though. School is officially "over" for my wife at 3, she stays until 5 or 6, and then sometimes after dinner, she's working another one or two hours on school stuff, planning ahead.

This is what has caused the MOST arguments that we've ever had in our two years of marriage.

3) My wife feels like she has to be doing school work even when she's not in school or on "break" during the course of the normal school year. She's not really "off" until summer break; but even then, she has required classes/seminars that she has to take.
4) Here in my wife's school system, the starting salary is just over $30,000 and there are no teachers unions in NC.

welcome to the life of anyone who cares about being successful.

i've worked late into nights and sometimes on weekends. i have a company blackberry and am expected to answer calls/emails any time of the day.
i study on my own time so i can stay ahead of the curve (or at least keep up). i am fortunate work reimburses me for study materials and certifications, but they do not reimburse me for my time.

no complaints here.

 

[PrinceofWands]

so calculate the hours worked over the course of a year.
what is it? close to 2080?

Yup. From just barely under to just barely over. Averages 37-42 hours/wk over the year. According to a couple different studies anyway. Haven't found any directly refuting it at least. It's what anyone with a brain has always known - it's a full time job just like any other.

 

[silverpig]

My wife is a teacher. In BC starting teachers make about $45k I think. My wife feels she is fairly paid, but does work long hours and puts in a lot of extra time. Yes she gets a lot of holidays, but has more education than most engineers and works typically longer hours (not at school, but at home). She has more holidays yes, but also makes a little less than a starting engineer here (bro got about $55k as a civil several years ago right out of school).

The union is BS though.

 

[Aikouka]

what kind of shitty school has 150 kids to one class?! I have a friend who's a teacher. She teaches Kindergarten, has a masters, and 7 yrs exp. She makes 60K/yr. I think she's making adequate amount considering the benefits she gets (full medical and pension), the job security she has (tenure...extremely hard to be fired), and the guaranteed raise every year!

I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. One class may not have 150 kids, but 150 kids may be taking one specific course. For example, my high school graduating class was ~130 kids (kinda small compared to most), but each of those kids had to take English throughout the years. If the English teacher gave an essay, they would have to grade ~130 of them.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I just want to put out there that teacher's unions are unlike nearly any other unions due to the contentious nature of their employment around kids. Accusations of sexual misconduct, abuse, bias against their precious snowflakes, disagreements over curriculum, etc. Without a union (or very strong tenure program) teachers are essentially defenseless against the constant barrage of attacks from all sides. It's becoming almost impossible to teach more than a few years without having to use the union to defend yourself from baseless accusations. Nobody would ever teach again without that protection.

 

[Lithium381]

depends on the union and the district. Some are cushy tenured positions that don't do jack, and some are 80 hour a week sweatshops...