Teachers

[metalfacepc]

With teacher positions being cut, class sizes doubling from 15 to 30+, and wages frozen, I can't see how teachers are not overworked and underpaid

 

[Jadow]

who cares about the starting salary of a 22 year old teacher just out of college.

Plenty of public school teachers with some years under their belt are making 6 figures including benefits.

 

[silverpig]

who cares about the starting salary of a 22 year old teacher just out of college.

Plenty of public school teachers with some years under their belt are making 6 figures including benefits.

If you have 2 bachelor's degrees, a master's, and 20 years experience, 6 figures sounds about right.

 

[DCal430]

If you have 2 bachelor's degrees, a master's, and 20 years experience, 6 figures sounds about right.

Very Few teachers have 2 bachelors and a masters. Most have just 1 bachelors.

 

[Cerb]

a couple of questions.

1) Why do you have to have a teaching license in America?!
2) Why are public school teachers paid more than private school teachers in America?!

1. You're from the UK, and asking about needing a license for something?!

Anyway, as evidence that they have passed courses to teach them how to herd children.

2. Public teachers can have policy makers get them things, and typically can survive being piss poor at their job, as long as they are good at CYA maneuvers. Private teachers need there to be enough money left over from keeping the school running to pay them, and they have to be good enough that parents don't bitch about them much.

With rich parents paying for their kids to go the school, obviously the school has a lot more money.

Most private schools aren't serving rich families, though rich families generally use them, too. They are mostly serving middle class families that are willing to make economic sacrifices to keep their kids out of the public school system (a district with many affordable private schools is a sure sign that this is a good choice ).

The rich kid schools exist, but at least as many are there to provide a superior education to as many families as possible, which does not lead to an abundance of money.

Ahh those I hadn't considered, but I assume they are an extreme minority...? Surely averaging them out would result in a higher average...

No, they are the norm. My area has three Catholic primary schools, and one protestant (I can't recall the affiliation, ATM), with two of said Catholic schools priced such that any lower-middle-class family could send a kid or two. It is not uncommon that they will make arrangements for those of other [or no] religions.

The reason I ask, is that I'm a bisexual atheist music hater who is against gun ownership.... So I'm interested to know how they'd react to me.

You have issues.

Against gun ownership would get you some debates and arguments, but nothing serious, partly because you will be seen as a loony foreigner, which would be true. Stick in a hardware store for an hour in the South, and I bet you will see at least one person open carrying. If you threaten severe harm, you have effectively forfeited your life to your target. This is accepted.

Bisexual and atheist, meh, but a button for backwards folks (many of whom are likely repressed bisexual or homosexual and in denial about faith). Don't go broadcasting it, and you would be fine.

But whoa, music hater? You are a cosmic error.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Very Few teachers have 2 bachelors and a masters. Most have just 1 bachelors.

That's old school and going away. Need a bachelors in every subject you teach to be 'highly qualified' (which most are or will try to be) plus your teaching degree or license (which requires coursework still) plus your credential classes plus your national cert classes (which many/most try to get) and in many states (soon to be most/all) a masters within 5 years of teaching. Mind you that's older grades...high school and such. Elementary you can get away with a good deal less.

I did a huge multi-post about this a while back in another thread where I posted the actual required coursework, studies, government reports, statutes, etc to back it all up. People have a totally ignorant view of it for the most part. Either link studies, copies of transcripts, statutes, etc, or let the big people handle discussions you aren't qualified to take part in.

 

[DCal430]

That's old school and going away. Need a bachelors in every subject you teach to be 'highly qualified' (which most are or will try to be) plus your teaching degree or license (which requires coursework still) plus your credential classes plus your national cert classes (which many/most try to get) and in many states (soon to be most/all) a masters within 5 years of teaching. Mind you that's older grades...high school and such. Elementary you can get away with a good deal less.

I did a huge multi-post about this a while back in another thread where I posted the actual required coursework, studies, government reports, statutes, etc to back it all up. People have a totally ignorant view of it for the most part. Either link studies, copies of transcripts, statutes, etc, or let the big people handle discussions you aren't qualified to take part in.

That might be were you are, but it is no way the standard. Here is there no education requirements beyond a single bachelors and 1 year teaching credentials. There is no continueing education requirments for teachers in my state. Show many any state requires a masters in 5 years of teacher. 90% of teachers have only been to school for 1 bachelors and 1 year of teaching credentials. There is ZERO requirements beyond that.

 

[mmntech]

Here in Ontario, they're definitely underworked and underpaid. Senior (14yr+) teachers are starting to push the $100k/yr mark. Newbies start at about $40,000 last time I checked, and that was a while ago. A job is almost guaranteed when you graduate, and it's for life. Compare this to other grads who are lucky to pull $30k in the private sector these days, if they can even find jobs in their field. There's a lot of young people going into teaching because of this. Plus teachers get iron clad benefits for life, far more than most people can only dream of. The only middle-class people making money right now are those in government positions.

Teachers have a long and sorted history in Ontario. Their unions are very wealthy and hold a great deal of political power. Any politician that dares oppose them will have their career ruined. Their pension fund is also one of the wealthiest bodies in the province, with assets over $107 billion. They own assets such as their own major land development corporation, the Toronto Maple Leafs, UK lottery company Camelot Group, and have interests in luggage maker Samsonite. They also owned a 25% stake in CTVglobmedia, at the time Canada's largest private media consortium, and attempted to buy their parent company, telecom giant Bell Canada, before the deal was quashed. So to say teachers here are struggling financially isn't the truth.

 

[PrinceofWands]

That might be were you are, but it is no way the standard. Here is there no education requirements beyond a single bachelors and 1 year teaching credentials. There is no continueing education requirments for teachers in my state. Show many any state requires a masters in 5 years of teacher. 90% of teachers have only been to school for 1 bachelors and 1 year of teaching credentials. There is ZERO requirements beyond that.

Again, you're utterly, totally ignorant...unless you can post supporting evidence you're either a liar or a dumbfuck.

http://www2.ed.gov/nclb/methods/teachers/hqtflexibility.html
http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/teaching/nclb/report07.pdf

EDIT: deleted 2 invalid links.

Oregon
http://www.ous.edu/programs/teached/...uide2005v6.pdf

I could go on and on (Washington, Massachusetts, etc), and have in other posts it's not worth my time to find, but it's something like 35 now that require a masters sooner or later. I get that you live in an ignorant state with no pride or discipline, but don't form your opinions of the real world based on your limited personal exposure.

 

[DCal430]

Again, you're utterly, totally ignorant...unless you can post supporting evidence you're either a liar or a dumbfuck.

http://www2.ed.gov/nclb/methods/teachers/hqtflexibility.html
http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/teaching/nclb/report07.pdf

New York
http://www.education-online-search.c...certification#
Ohio
http://www.education-online-search.c...certification#
Oregon
http://www.ous.edu/programs/teached/...uide2005v6.pdf

I could go on and on (Washington, Massachusetts, etc), and have in other posts it's not worth my time to find, but it's something like 35 now that require a masters sooner or later. I get that you live in an ignorant state with no pride or discipline, but don't form your opinions of the real world based on your limited personal exposure.

Nothing you posted show any requirement for any masters degree. You are the one is ignorant. You are making the claim and you need to show proof not me.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Nothing you posted show any requirement for any masters degree. You are the one is ignorant. You are making the claim and you need to show proof not me.

Sry, they changed the pages since when I originally posted those 2 links a couple years ago.

The Oregon one is still valid, and you can google ny or any other states requirements to get the info.

Here's OR:

Continuing Teaching License (Optional)
This license is valid for regular teaching at one or more designated authorization levels in one or more designated specialties and for substitute teaching at any level in any specialty. To be eligible for a Continuing Teaching License (CTL) an applicant must meet all requirements of the Initial Teaching License; and hold a master's degree or higher in the arts and sciences or an advanced degree in the professions from a regionally accredited institution in the United States, or the foreign equivalent of such degree approved by the commission, together with an equally accredited bachelor's degree;

Here's NY:

To receive a Professional certificate, an individual must meet the following, additional requirements:

• Submit an application with the required fee.
• Have three years of teaching experience with the first year being a "mentored" teaching experience.
• Have completed a master's degree.
• Pass the Assessment of Teaching Skills-Performance (ATS-P) test. This is not required for all subject areas.
• Be a US citizen or Permanent Resident.

Here's OH:

First RenewalThe Professional Educator License may be renewed the first time by completing one of the following professional development activities:

• Completing six semester hours of appropriate course-work related to classroom teaching and/or the area of licensure. Coursework must be at an accredited baccalaureate degree granting college.
• Completing 18 continuing education units (CUEs), the equivalent of 180 contact hours.
• Completing equivalent activities as approved by the local Professional Development Committee of the employing school or school district.

One semester hour is equivalent to 1.5 quarter hours or 3 CEUs. Completing the required professional development activities will renew all certificates that an individual may have.
Second Renewal The Professional Educator License may be renewed the second time by completing one of the following professional development activities:

• Completing a Master's Degree.
• Completing 30 semester hours of appropriate course-work related to classroom teaching and/or the area of licensure. Coursework must be at an accredited baccalaureate degree granting college.

A minimum of six semester hours, 18 CEUs or equivalent activities must be completed during the second renewal period.
All Subsequent RenewalsThe requirements for renewal in all subsequent years are the same as the first renewal.

etc ad nauseum.

So, the oregon one was valid, therefore it DID say what I claimed. Furthermore the report on NCLB highly qualified progress supported what I claimed. So it is YOU who had already been proved wrong, regardless of my two broken links. The rest is purely icing.

Meanwhile you have made at LEAST as many claims as I have, yet you have yet to post a single bit of support. How is it that I have to support my arguments, but you somehow don't have to support yours...especially after you've already been proved an utter dipshit?

Your head is up your ass, you know absolutely nothing, you're a worthless lying biased piece of closed-minded dogshit. In short, fuck you sir.

 

[HAL9000]

1. You're from the UK, and asking about needing a license for something?!

Anyway, as evidence that they have passed courses to teach them how to herd children.

2. Public teachers can have policy makers get them things, and typically can survive being piss poor at their job, as long as they are good at CYA maneuvers. Private teachers need there to be enough money left over from keeping the school running to pay them, and they have to be good enough that parents don't bitch about them much.
Most private schools aren't serving rich families, though rich families generally use them, too. They are mostly serving middle class families that are willing to make economic sacrifices to keep their kids out of the public school system (a district with many affordable private schools is a sure sign that this is a good choice ).

The rich kid schools exist, but at least as many are there to provide a superior education to as many families as possible, which does not lead to an abundance of money.

No, they are the norm. My area has three Catholic primary schools, and one protestant (I can't recall the affiliation, ATM), with two of said Catholic schools priced such that any lower-middle-class family could send a kid or two. It is not uncommon that they will make arrangements for those of other [or no] religions.

The stuff in bold above we went through earlier in the thread, the stuff not in bold we didn't.

You have issues.

Everyone does.

Against gun ownership would get you some debates and arguments, but nothing serious, partly because you will be seen as a loony foreigner, which would be true. Stick in a hardware store for an hour in the South, and I bet you will see at least one person open carrying. If you threaten severe harm, you have effectively forfeited your life to your target. This is accepted.

That's unfortunate but not the end of the world.

Bisexual and atheist, meh, but a button for backwards folks (many of whom are likely repressed bisexual or homosexual and in denial about faith). Don't go broadcasting it, and you would be fine.

Yeah I get that from a lot of homophobes, I'd just be interested to talk to someone my age from a "backwards" place...

But whoa, music hater? You are a cosmic error.

Yeah hate was a strong word, disinterest is more accurate.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

With teacher positions being cut, class sizes doubling from 15 to 30+, and wages frozen, I can't see how teachers are not overworked and underpaid

they have no one to blame but themselves and their unions.
accept some benefit contribution increases and wage freezes and they could've saved a bunch of jobs, reducing classroom sizes.

 

[mizzou]

For the bad teachers, overpaid and underworked.

For the good teachers, underpaid and overworked.

this

 

[TridenT]

Depends on the teachers, but in general I'd say they're overworked and underpaid. Most of the teachers I've known in smaller school districts were always wishing they had more time to do stuff.

Also, realize that teachers are not just babysitters. Some are only that, but these people are supposed to be inspirations, motivators, and role models to children. It's a lot to ask.

Math and English teachers seem to have it the worst from what I've seen.


Also, I think we should have summer school and make that a regular thing.

 

[ShawnD1]

Man your teachers are paid shit. In alberta canada they start at 45k with benefits.

 

[tfinch2]

Here in the Austin area, my wife can't find a public school teaching job. Graduated in 09 with a good GPA, many internships, and has only gotten about 2 or 3 interviews after applying to many positions. Luckily I've had a good job during this period, but it's difficult to see her go through this.

 

[DCal430]

Sry, they changed the pages since when I originally posted those 2 links a couple years ago.

The Oregon one is still valid, and you can google ny or any other states requirements to get the info.

Here's OR:

Here's NY:

Here's OH:

etc ad nauseum.

So, the oregon one was valid, therefore it DID say what I claimed. Furthermore the report on NCLB highly qualified progress supported what I claimed. So it is YOU who had already been proved wrong, regardless of my two broken links. The rest is purely icing.

Meanwhile you have made at LEAST as many claims as I have, yet you have yet to post a single bit of support. How is it that I have to support my arguments, but you somehow don't have to support yours...especially after you've already been proved an utter dipshit?

Your head is up your ass, you know absolutely nothing, you're a worthless lying biased piece of closed-minded dogshit. In short, fuck you sir.

You are the one with the head stuck up your ass.

First oregon CTL is not required. If you go to Oregon website it clearly states all you need is 30 semester units of "graduate level" course work, and you have 10 years to get it.

Some states like NY may require a masters, but that is not the norm. Where the 2 bachelor degrees that you were claiming, they require.

 

[DCal430]

Man your teachers are paid shit. In alberta canada they start at 45k with benefits.

Like I said teachers here start out making around 50K plus large pension and other benefits.

 

[ShawnD1]

Very Few teachers have 2 bachelors and a masters. Most have just 1 bachelors.

I don't understand why they would get paid more for having more education. More degrees doesn't mean someone is a better teacher. Stephen Hawking is a really smart guy but I'm pretty sure he would suck at teaching grade 8 science. The ability to teach has nothing to do with how smart you are and everything to do with how well you can explain things in a way people will remember.


My best engineering teacher was not an engineer. He didn't know too much about how electricity works or any of that stuff, but he still knew what bad design looks like. One day he brought in a meter long piece of 3 conductor #2 teck cable and he passed it around the class so people could feel how heavy and stiff it is. He wanted us to feel this cable and understand what electricians need to deal with. It doesn't bend easily, so your designs should always allow a large bending radius. The code book says the minimum allowed is X, but there's no way you could ever bend this cable that much. Teck cables are not smooth, and they can be difficult to pull. If we make a design where the tray size is just big enough to comply with code, it will be hard as hell to pull cable through it. He also shared a few stories about why we should do other things beyond what the electrical code demands. When looking at cable trays, remember that at some point there might be a 300lb electrician walking on the tray, and the thing will break if we didn't account for that.
He might not be an engineer but he could probably write an entire text book full of bad designs he has seen while working as an electrician. Some engineer in some lab could have several graduate degrees and still not have a clue why a design is terrible.

 

[PrinceofWands]

You are the one with the head stuck up your ass.

First oregon CTL is not required. If you go to Oregon website it clearly states all you need is 30 semester units of "graduate level" course work, and you have 10 years to get it.

Some states like NY may require a masters, but that is not the norm. Where the 2 bachelor degrees that you were claiming, they require.

30 Semester hours IS a Masters ass...or within a few credits of one depending on the program. Just a matter of being in the program or taking individual coursework.

If by 'some states' if you mean a little better than half, then yeah, which is exactly what I said initially, and in many other posts on this subject.

I didn't say 2 Bachelor's (at least in this thread), that was someone else entirely. However, since you asked and because I love nothing better than exposing you as the ignorant blowhard piece of fucking shit that you are:

Once you add up the additional credits required for the teaching cert and the endorsement (to say nothing of getting your national cert and continuing education credits) it comes out roughly equivalent to a second degree. Or there's the part about being 'highly qualified', which can be done with a degree in each subject you teach, thereby accounting for multiple degrees which are usually at the Bachelor's level. So the person who DID say it is more or less correct.

So once again, you're wrong in basically everything you say. You know what really proves you're stupidity is how many times you've banged your head against the brick wall which is my knowledge without either admitting you know nothing or at least slinking off in brutal defeat. Especially since you STILL haven't provided ANY supporting evidence for anything you've claimed throughout this thread. It's like you're intent on seeing how far into the credibility hole you can bury yourself.

Look, I have no problem when people have a differing opinion. Hate teachers all you want. I have a problem when they declare something as factual that has no basis in fact, and can't be supported with evidence. In short, I'm irritated with you because you're treating your personal biased opinion as factual reality, and refuse to acknowledge it. It's no different than Young Earthers, or Birthers, or extreme gun control advocates. It's people who want something their way so badly that cognitive dissonance completely revokes their rational faculties. If you can make an actual ARGUMENT for what you say, do it. If you can refute my arguments and supporting evidence (without resorting to ridiculous nit-picking and such) please do that as well. I love nothing more than being proved wrong because it forces me to grow. But if you can't do any of that, and aren't a big enough person to admit you were wrong, then at least shut up so you quit embarrassing yourself.

 

[biostud]

One of the most important thing is to create good classroom dynamics. You have to gain the respect of the children, understand how they learn in different ways and make sure they behave well towards each other to have the best learning environment. So social skills are just as important as having a good education. If the kids trust each other and are good friends, the teaching becomes much better.

 

[Fayd]

The reason I ask, is that I'm a bisexual atheist music hater who is against gun ownership.... So I'm interested to know how they'd react to me.

Also seriously would you get beaten up for saying "Man love rules OK?" or "Nascar Sucks"

unlikely, but how about you just act like a person instead of a dipshit?

 

[Exterous]

Like I said teachers here start out making around 50K plus large pension and other benefits.

Link to prove all of your claims? (Hint: Not just this one)

 

[Fear No Evil]

Almost everything being said here about teachers applies to other jobs as well. Teachers for some reason think they are the only ones who have shitty jobs, must do work at home, must keep up on their education, are expected to do more work than previous years, work with difficult 'customers', etc. If work was so great they wouldn't call it work, they'd call it fun. They need to get over themselves. EVERYONE has these issues.