Tesla increasing FSD price to $15,000

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,081
662
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Tesla says Autopilot is preventing ~40 crashes per day from wrong pedal errors alone:


Autopilot and FSD are 2 different things. Curently they charge $6K for Enhanced Autopilot, listing the features "Autopark" (borderline useless), Summon, Enhanced Summon, Autolane change and navigate. Tesla is very vague about differentiating Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot, not sure if the safety features are locked behind the "Enhanced" price tag?

FSD is useless until they take it out of beta and let anyone use it without requiring some minimum driver score.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Tesla says Autopilot is preventing ~40 crashes per day from wrong pedal errors alone:

Given Tesla's history of say, embellishment, I'd view their statements with some skepticism. As for FSD, you'd have to be a moron to pay for it right now: $15000 for the Duke Nukem Forever of auto technology.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,516
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Given Tesla's history of say, embellishment, I'd view their statements with some skepticism. As for FSD, you'd have to be a moron to pay for it right now: $15000 for the Duke Nukem Forever of auto technology.

You could literally buy a brand-new car for less than the cost of FSD & use the leftover thousand bucks to take a nice little vacation lol:


As far as FSD usability goes, after my negative experience with my Jeep Renegade, I added "never buy first generation products" to my personal list of rules haha. Or in other words, WYSIWYG: if it exists today & if it has a track record of being functional, GREAT! OR, if you're willing to take the risk & live with the hiccups, then as long as you have properly managed expectations, then also great! I'm keen to get a 500-mile Cybertruck, as to me (factoring in less mileage in the real world) that would be a comfortable range, but I also plan on letting the trucks be in production for awhile & go through Tesla's 6-month upgrade cycle a few times to work out the kinks. If I hadn't had such a bad experience with Jeep (FCA), I would have been pretty interested in the 1,000-mile range RAM EcoDiesel, as it would have been amazing to only have to fill up once a month lol:


I'm also curious if they're going to stick the supposed 620-mile range Roadster 2.0 battery into the Cybertruck's quad-motor option. That would be pretty amazing to have available as an electric range, especially for stuff like short-haul towing!
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
So, I'm not sure if it was an error given that my Safety Score is usually between an 80-90, but I got my FSD option enabled last week in an update. I decided to give it a try a couple days later. I mean... it was only Black Friday; what could possibly go wrong? The car came up to a stop sign where the perpendicular side was on an incline, and I was set to turn right onto that perpendicular direction going up the hill. It was at that point where I had to stop FSD, because it was attempting to pull out in front of an oncoming car. I don't know if it has a weird limitation in regard to hills, but it did not seem to notice the vehicle that was coming from further down the hill. I can say for certain that it has no ability to notice speed bumps as it went over them at full speed. It also didn't really want to move over enough for a pedestrian in the road (the road in question lacks sidewalks), which is another instance where I took over and made space.

I tried it again later to see how it would handle a left-hand turn merging onto a road with a rather wide mouth, and I wasn't entirely impressed with its turn line. I might try it again to see if it does better, but from what I saw (before I took over), the line was too far to the right and was going to veer into the wrong lane (still the correct direction though).

Overall, I'm fairly indifferent. I honestly didn't expect much, and I kind of got what I expected. Frankly, I'm glad I only paid $3k for that and not $15k!

Autopilot and FSD are 2 different things. Curently they charge $6K for Enhanced Autopilot, listing the features "Autopark" (borderline useless), Summon, Enhanced Summon, Autolane change and navigate. Tesla is very vague about differentiating Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot, not sure if the safety features are locked behind the "Enhanced" price tag?

FSD is useless until they take it out of beta and let anyone use it without requiring some minimum driver score.

It looks like they've changed their Autopilot setup since I've last looked. In the past, Enhanced Autopilot was the only option that pretty much included every smart option. Eventually, they changed it so the basic options (like Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control) were moved under the renamed "Autopilot", and the fancy options like Summon and Autopark were moved under Full Self-Driving. When they did that, they pretty much gave everyone the basic automations for free, and required FSD if you wanted the fancy yet limited "it drives on its own" stuff.

Looking at it now, it looks like they've taken the majority of the items that were in the original Enhanced Autopilot and put them back into a new Enhanced Autopilot package. So, essentially, the only difference that I see between early Tesla and now is that you pay a lot more (5k vs 6k, and 3k vs 15k) and the more basic automations (e.g., TACC) are baked in.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,516
5,333
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So, I'm not sure if it was an error given that my Safety Score is usually between an 80-90, but I got my FSD option enabled last week in an update. I decided to give it a try a couple days later. I mean... it was only Black Friday; what could possibly go wrong? The car came up to a stop sign where the perpendicular side was on an incline, and I was set to turn right onto that perpendicular direction going up the hill. It was at that point where I had to stop FSD, because it was attempting to pull out in front of an oncoming car. I don't know if it has a weird limitation in regard to hills, but it did not seem to notice the vehicle that was coming from further down the hill. I can say for certain that it has no ability to notice speed bumps as it went over them at full speed. It also didn't really want to move over enough for a pedestrian in the road (the road in question lacks sidewalks), which is another instance where I took over and made space.

I tried it again later to see how it would handle a left-hand turn merging onto a road with a rather wide mouth, and I wasn't entirely impressed with its turn line. I might try it again to see if it does better, but from what I saw (before I took over), the line was too far to the right and was going to veer into the wrong lane (still the correct direction though).

Overall, I'm fairly indifferent. I honestly didn't expect much, and I kind of got what I expected. Frankly, I'm glad I only paid $3k for that and not $15k!



It looks like they've changed their Autopilot setup since I've last looked. In the past, Enhanced Autopilot was the only option that pretty much included every smart option. Eventually, they changed it so the basic options (like Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control) were moved under the renamed "Autopilot", and the fancy options like Summon and Autopark were moved under Full Self-Driving. When they did that, they pretty much gave everyone the basic automations for free, and required FSD if you wanted the fancy yet limited "it drives on its own" stuff.

Looking at it now, it looks like they've taken the majority of the items that were in the original Enhanced Autopilot and put them back into a new Enhanced Autopilot package. So, essentially, the only difference that I see between early Tesla and now is that you pay a lot more (5k vs 6k, and 3k vs 15k) and the more basic automations (e.g., TACC) are baked in.

Would it be worth flipping your 3 with FSD for a Performance model?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Would it be worth flipping your 3 with FSD for a Performance model?

If I wanted another Tesla, I think a slightly older Model S would be the best idea. It's not necessarily the cheapest idea, but given that the Model S would pretty much fix all of my complaints that I have with the Model 3, it's really the best route. (It would fix the lack of a dash cluster and the lack of physical controls for the wipers and lights.)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,516
5,333
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If I wanted another Tesla, I think a slightly older Model S would be the best idea. It's not necessarily the cheapest idea, but given that the Model S would pretty much fix all of my complaints that I have with the Model 3, it's really the best route. (It would fix the lack of a dash cluster and the lack of physical controls for the wipers and lights.)

I have a Cybertruck on pre-order, but I worry about a lot of stuff:

1. If someone rear-ends you in a fender-bender...like how do you even fix that?
2. With the bulletproof windows, if you get in an accident & flip over or fall into a river & the doors get stuck, you can't just use a window-breaker tool to get out, so what do you do?
3. Are they going to come with round steering wheels? Looks like the only option is the yoke & I'm not mentally onboard with that yet lol

With the current models:

1. My current rental doesn't have a charging spot & only some of my clients have chargers, so charging would be a hassle. A 500-mile Cybertruck battery would help tho.
2. The nearest Tesla dealership is like an hour away, whereas Ford dealerships are everywhere, so getting quick service is a lot easier.
3. No stick-shift option =D
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,081
662
126
I have a Cybertruck on pre-order, but I worry about a lot of stuff:

1. If someone rear-ends you in a fender-bender...like how do you even fix that?
2. With the bulletproof windows, if you get in an accident & flip over or fall into a river & the doors get stuck, you can't just use a window-breaker tool to get out, so what do you do?
3. Are they going to come with round steering wheels? Looks like the only option is the yoke & I'm not mentally onboard with that yet lol

With the current models:

1. My current rental doesn't have a charging spot & only some of my clients have chargers, so charging would be a hassle. A 500-mile Cybertruck battery would help tho.
2. The nearest Tesla dealership is like an hour away, whereas Ford dealerships are everywhere, so getting quick service is a lot easier.
3. No stick-shift option =D

- $$$
- The windows are not bullet proof. I would be shocked if a glass breaker didn't work.
- Considering it is not an option in the S, I doubt it.
- If you don't have a reliable charging spot that is the first thing you need to fix before you buy an EV. Even a simple 120V outlet is better than nothing.
- Most of the minor work is done via mobile service only major issue, which hopefully would not happen, requires going to a service center.
- Don't need a stick shift in an electric car.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,214
6,815
136
1. If someone rear-ends you in a fender-bender...like how do you even fix that?

My guess is that whoever rear-ends you will be the only one who needs a fix.

Real answer: it'll probably be expensive and a hassle; the one hope is that the body is strong enough to reduce the impact.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I have a Cybertruck on pre-order, but I worry about a lot of stuff:

1. If someone rear-ends you in a fender-bender...like how do you even fix that?
2. With the bulletproof windows, if you get in an accident & flip over or fall into a river & the doors get stuck, you can't just use a window-breaker tool to get out, so what do you do?
3. Are they going to come with round steering wheels? Looks like the only option is the yoke & I'm not mentally onboard with that yet lol

With the current models:

1. My current rental doesn't have a charging spot & only some of my clients have chargers, so charging would be a hassle. A 500-mile Cybertruck battery would help tho.
2. The nearest Tesla dealership is like an hour away, whereas Ford dealerships are everywhere, so getting quick service is a lot easier.
3. No stick-shift option =D

While I have no insider knowledge, I highly doubt that you'll get steering wheel options. At least from what I've seen, Tesla tends to have minimal offerings, and when something is swayed by Musk's whims, you're unlikely to see that change... unless Stephen King tweets at him. 😅 That has been my main bugbear with Tesla for as long as I've owned it. There are some really nice things about the car, but it almost feels like I'm making concessions for what I consider to be lackluster and/or lofty ideas. For years, we've been told that we don't need physical controls for lights or wipers because the car will handle that for us with Full Self-Driving; however, as I've personally experienced, Full Self-Driving is not anywhere close to ready, and it may suffer degradation during inclement weather. I mean... even direct sunlight can cause camera degradation issues, which would directly affect both EAP and FSD functionality.

Honestly, the biggest reason aspect that would keep me with Tesla is that their infotainment system, while still being kind of buggy, is far more usable than any other that I've had in a car. I think other manufacturers are starting to close in a bit, but Tesla still has quite a good lead there.

Oh, and it turns out that I was mistaken about one aspect of the Model S. Apparently, the Model S does not have hardware light control. (It does have hardware wiper control like I thought.) That's a bit of a blow given that better headlight control is something that I'd really like. To make that worse, while there is a third-party function that can enable better physical headlight control (Enhauto's S3XY Buttons), those do not work with the older Model S/X. So, even if I were to go with a Model S for all of its other benefits, I would lose out on that potential wiper/light remedy as it works with the Model 3. The other things that I'd really like to have are the dash cluster, a heated steering wheel, and the contiguous cargo area (i.e., not a trunk). There are third-party dash cluster options for the Model 3, but they lack one thing that I want on the cluster: media playback information. While I'd prefer the speed in the cluster, I'm okay with it at the top left of the screen. However, the nature of streaming music means that I usually want to see what song is playing (especially if I'm having songs suggested to me); however, I find that looking down at the bottom center of the screen is too distracting. As a result, I'd really like to have it in the dash cluster like it was with my Ford vehicles. For cargo, the big thing is that I've been carrying things like bo staves for karate, which are just rather long (up to six feet). They usually get carried in the trunk with a seat down or awkwardly placed in the passenger's footwell going between the front seats. It'd be really nice to just toss them in the open cargo area going over the rear seats and just telling rear passengers to watch their head. 😋
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Tesla's Promise of a Fully Self-Driving Car Merely an 'Aspirational Goal,' Lawyers Say

Mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud,” Tesla’s lawyers wrote in a November 28 court filing, asking that the suit be dismissed.

The lawsuit cited numerous times when Musk and others at Tesla had stated that, within a year or two, the cars would be fully self-driving thanks to software updates. For instance, in a 2016 Tweet, Musk stated that a Tesla car would be able to drive itself across the United States “by next year,” the suit said.

Later that year, Tesla published a video, also cited in the lawsuit, which the automaker said showed one of its cars driving itself. The video was misleading, the lawsuit said, because according to Tesla employees involved in the video, numerous attempts had to be made before the car could be shown to maneuver through the route without obvious problems.

Just failing to meet Musk’s own expectations isn’t evidence that anyone purposely tried to deceive consumers
, which would constitute fraud, Tesla said in its filing. Moreover, according to Tesla, buyers should have been well aware of the limitations of these systems before purchasing them, based on Tesla’s disclaimers on its website and owners’ manuals. Also, Tesla said, the plaintiffs didn’t show that, even if Tesla’s systems were involved in crashes, they were involved in more crashes than an unaided human driver would have when operating under the same conditions.

Tesla ordered to upgrade self-driving computer for free due to ‘false advertising’

"However, things got more complicated last year when Tesla launched its Full Self-Driving subscription package for $199 per month. Instead of outright buying the Full Self-Driving package, which now costs $15,000, Tesla owners had the opportunity pay $199 a month to get the features available under the package. The problem is that for owners who didn’t have the Full Self-Driving computer retrofit, Tesla was asking for $1,500 (later reduced to $1,000) to get the computer before they could get a FSD subscription."
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,214
6,815
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Tesla's Promise of a Fully Self-Driving Car Merely an 'Aspirational Goal,' Lawyers Say

Mere failure to realize a long-term, aspirational goal is not fraud,” Tesla’s lawyers wrote in a November 28 court filing, asking that the suit be dismissed.

The lawsuit cited numerous times when Musk and others at Tesla had stated that, within a year or two, the cars would be fully self-driving thanks to software updates. For instance, in a 2016 Tweet, Musk stated that a Tesla car would be able to drive itself across the United States “by next year,” the suit said.

Later that year, Tesla published a video, also cited in the lawsuit, which the automaker said showed one of its cars driving itself. The video was misleading, the lawsuit said, because according to Tesla employees involved in the video, numerous attempts had to be made before the car could be shown to maneuver through the route without obvious problems.

Just failing to meet Musk’s own expectations isn’t evidence that anyone purposely tried to deceive consumers
, which would constitute fraud, Tesla said in its filing. Moreover, according to Tesla, buyers should have been well aware of the limitations of these systems before purchasing them, based on Tesla’s disclaimers on its website and owners’ manuals. Also, Tesla said, the plaintiffs didn’t show that, even if Tesla’s systems were involved in crashes, they were involved in more crashes than an unaided human driver would have when operating under the same conditions.

Tesla ordered to upgrade self-driving computer for free due to ‘false advertising’

"However, things got more complicated last year when Tesla launched its Full Self-Driving subscription package for $199 per month. Instead of outright buying the Full Self-Driving package, which now costs $15,000, Tesla owners had the opportunity pay $199 a month to get the features available under the package. The problem is that for owners who didn’t have the Full Self-Driving computer retrofit, Tesla was asking for $1,500 (later reduced to $1,000) to get the computer before they could get a FSD subscription."

Have to laugh at Tesla's argument. By that logic, companies can make any outlandish claim so long as the hardware is technically capable and they might accomplish that goal. Our car will solve pi and do your taxes! When our software team gets around to them... really, honest.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,516
5,333
136
Have to laugh at Tesla's argument. By that logic, companies can make any outlandish claim so long as the hardware is technically capable and they might accomplish that goal. Our car will solve pi and do your taxes! When our software team gets around to them... really, honest.

 
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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,353
6,996
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Heh. That reminded me of this...
 
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