I'm pretty sure Adlep's Rossi thread tops this one
On a slightly related note:
Does anyone know if any of the other Electric/Hybrid manufacturers have incorporated any of the released Tesla patents into their designs yet?
Using GAAP to determine profitability rather than whatever smoke and mirrors you want to use to put your company in a positive light.
Musk has sad repeatedly that the Tesla stock price is more than they deserve. They are a growing company in a capital intensive industry. They should be focused on growth not on profitability at this point.
And that's fine, but let's call things as they are. They're a niche market right now, and according to what I'm now hearing from their supporters, always will be in a niche market.
The problem for Tesla trying to remain in that niche market is that eventually other automakers will catch up. There's very little room for niche auto manufacturers. History has demonstrated that. Most luxury makes are part of a larger auto company. Do you really believe that other luxury auto companies will sit back and let some upstart swallow the market?
Battery production outside of Tesla will increase. The market will demand it; it won't settle for Tesla being the only EV company especially if they're only going to be making enough batteries to supply a tiny portion of the entire market. And if the only thing Tesla has going for them is a temporary lead in manufacturing output, they're not really a long term winner. Massive companies will throw their weight behind production, those batteries will start out in the luxury brands competing directly with Tesla, and eventually filter down to the common brands where economies of scale will drown Tesla.
They are a niche market because that is how a company starts out as a niche until they can grab bigger market share. Doesn't mean a niche player cannot grab bigger and bigger market share.
Those auto manufacturers still have to design a competing product that will measure up to what Tesla produces.
They also have to match up with Tesla on it's sales and service.
Does any auto company have a EV in production or near production that matches the Model S?
Does any other auto company have a network of supercharger stations that make it possible for EV's to travel long distances?
Tesla is already working towards achieving staggering economies of scale in it's Giga-Factory. I don't see any other manufacturer even talking about approaching the scale of battery manufacturer that Tesla is currently achieving. Tesla is planning to produce more Lithium-Ion batteries in it's one factory by 2020 than every other Lithium-Ion battery manufactuer in the world combined. Not sure what economy of scale you were looking for.
lol @ the Tesla haters.. same people who are now butthurt that the keystone pipeline just failed in the senate
I posted in another thread that their cash flow for the first 3 quarter of 2014 is a net loss of half a billion dollars.Dafuq happened to revive this thread today?
Not invested in Tesla. Very interested in seeing their future products though.
Fanboy: noun, A person who considers a realist to be a "hater".
I posted in another thread that their cash flow for the first 3 quarter of 2014 is a net loss of half a billion dollars.
https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:TSLA&fstype=ii&ei=fetrVKC2IunDigKIiIAQ
+29.07mm cash from operations
-601.22mm capex
Now compare sources of cash:
+29.07mm from operations
+2131.80mm from selling stock and borrowing money
What's interesting is that their cash from operations is actually in decline
+60.64mm for Q1
+57.06mm for Q2
+29.07mm for Q3
What is the point you are making? Sure Tesla can fail if they dont keep executing on their business plan. Just because they are a niche player doesnt mean they will automatically be acquired or fail.The auto industry has been shedding niche players, not creating them, in case you hadn't noticed.
Tesla already has a product and the experience. The companies have to build a product that competes in this market. I am sure they will build a successful product. That doesnt mean that Tesla cannot compete against these bigger players. It isnt like Tesla is making a crappy product that people are buying because they have no other alternative. The auto market is a large pie.What do you suppose is easier? A company which already has $100B or more in yearly revenue developing a niche product? Or a niche company growing to compete with that giant? Oh by the way, there are 8 of those giants.
Of course not. I hope they jump in. I never said they would not make an EV.The top eight auto manufacturers collectively have revenue of over $1 Trillion. You think they're going to skip this whole "EV fad"?
Yes seriously. Tesla is beating the major manufactures on how Sales and service is handled for autos.Seriously?
They can try. Just because they have more money doesnt mean they will be able to snap their fingers and make Tesla go away and deliver a wonderful EV.No, and they won't until EV is a viable product. Tesla's measily couple of billion in revenue is niche within a niche. Even Daimler does $100B/yr. Tesla will have a hand in making the EV market viable, at which point $1 Trillion in revenue will come to bear and blow them out of the market they helped create.
Actually 256 super charging stations, worldwide and increasing every week. The point of the supercharging station is to allow an EV to travel long distances. You would normally only use the Supercharging station when you are on a road trip. A big complaint of EVs that they are not practical as primary cars since you cannot travel cross country with them. With the Tesla you can. No other manufacturer currently has a network like this for their EVs to allow long distance travel so a Tesla can function as a primary car.Does Tesla? LOL, 100 stations. Unless the whole point of an EV is to drive it back and forth to the one station in town, that's a useless metric. It will need industry wide adoption and massive rollout. One tiny company's efforts will not matter there.
The Giga-factory will be on the scale that Tesla will need to compete on economies of scale with any other single manufacturer of batteries from a battery price point.The kind that scales to tens of millions of vehicles per year. Not the Tesla niche-within-a-niche market. To convert the whole world to electric vehicles will require 20 or more times the capacity Tesla is proposing by 2020. Unless the whole world is willing to stand around waiting for Tesla's manufacturing to catch up and supply the rest of the market, other capital will step in and make Tesla's investment irrelevant.
I never said that Tesla alone is going to change the world.Edit: Yes, I'm aware Daimler owns a part of Tesla. All the more reason to realize that Tesla alone is not going to change the world.
Then let's add it back in. 30mm turns into 60mm cash from operations. Their capital expenditures are 10x their operating income and you think this is good news? By all means, I encourage you to buy Tesla stock with both hands./facepalm
You don't know how to read financial statements, do you? You think the increase of $35m in R&D in Q3 might have something to do with it?
So the estimates were bankruptcy and they're managed to not go bankrupt in that time? That's bullish. You should definitely buy Tesla shares. Better yet, buy call options. When the company has a YTD net loss of 186 million, that means there's plenty of room for improvement.And you do realize they beat the analyst estimates for the quarter.
Then let's add it back in. 30mm turns into 60mm cash from operations. Their capital expenditures are 10x their operating income and you think this is good news? By all means, I encourage you to buy Tesla stock with both hands.
I've already made a killing by betting against Tesla. I bought put options when they announced a "gigafactory" near the beginning of the year.
So the estimates were bankruptcy and they're managed to not go bankrupt in that time? That's bullish. You should definitely buy Tesla shares. Better yet, buy call options. When the company has a YTD net loss of 186 million, that means there's plenty of room for improvement.
And that's fine, but let's call things as they are. They're a niche market right now, and according to what I'm now hearing from their supporters, always will be in a niche market.
Then let's add it back in. 30mm turns into 60mm cash from operations. Their capital expenditures are 10x their operating income and you think this is good news? By all means, I encourage you to buy Tesla stock with both hands.
I've already made a killing by betting against Tesla. I bought put options when they announced a "gigafactory" near the beginning of the year.
So the estimates were bankruptcy and they're managed to not go bankrupt in that time? That's bullish. You should definitely buy Tesla shares. Better yet, buy call options. When the company has a YTD net loss of 186 million, that means there's plenty of room for improvement.
Regardless of what Tesla does, you people that made money off of them through nothing more than a mouse click, moving money around, are what is wrong with this country. Hard work is what is supposed to be what makes this the land of opportunity. Not random click at the right place at the right time. I know I am old fashioned in thinking you should actually work for a paycheck, but it was how I was raised.
Hopefully this whole thing comes crashing down on the lazy, but I guess there are plenty of baubles in the mean time.
I don't think they are going to stay in a niche market. This is the future of cars. The internal combustion engine is going to leave automobiles over the next few decades.
Tesla is working on a middle-class affordable car now. Fully electric.
Losing money at record speed?You understand what they're doing with their capital expenditures, right?
I made about 400% return over the span of a month.And sure you made a penny on Tesla. Maybe, in your fake portfolio that you have, you shorted it on a bad day of the stock.