Testing the First AIDS Vaccine

[Darien]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Darien

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Darien

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Meh, I'm not an IV drug user, I do not have sex with men, I do not have sex with prostitutes, I do not have sex with IV drug users, I'm rather monogamous and don't have sex with people I barely know. The last thing I could care about is an AIDs vaccine.

But what a wonderful day it is in America that almost as much money is spent on AIDs research as cancer research so that people can engage in all of the behaviors above without risk. Hurray.

Pretty much my feelings, I only have sex with one woman & both of us have only had one partner (each other).

AIDS is about as high on my list of worries as being kidnapped & anally probed by aliens.

Viper GTS

You guys aren't thinking beyond the foot of your own beds. What about other nations (Africa and India come to mind)? Wouldn't it be nice if we could stem the tide of a disease that is effectively excising the middle of their populations? Or should we just let them die because there are more important domestic issues at hand?

Let 'em learn that the best protection is no sex.

To those that didn't fvck around and have the disease -- let 'em have the vaccine.

<puts flame suit on>

I think you put the "stupid" suit on by accident.

1. Most Africans don't even understand what HIV/AIDS is because there's little funding for education (the spread of misinformation and rumors actually increases the spread of HIV in some cases). So you're saying they should just "figure out" basic virology on their own? That's absurd.

2. Vaccines PREVENT infection. They don't cure it, moron.

your first point is brought up out of no where. I never said to stop education.



the second point i should have made more clear -- those who didn't mess around should be the ones who decide which people should get the vaccine first. they'd be more level-headed than those who realize they have the disease.

Riiiiiiiiiight. So we make decisions about who gets what vaccine based on a summary judgement of their morality? That's just brilliant Dr Goebbels.

name-calling is rather childish -- why the insult?

Because your post was completely pointless and you obviously didn't bother to read the article I linked either. You just hopped in the thread, typed out some blather (which you even admitted was complete flamebait), and went back to mastubating to old "Threes Company" reruns. Make a valid point or STFU.

argh, lemme rephrase this again.



obviously you can't make vaccine for everyone. and, obviously, those with the disease can't use them. the only people left are those without the disease.



why give the vaccine to those and let 'em decide? Simple: who do you give it to FIRST? children are quite important, but so are the working class and elderly.



And, I did read the article. And I thank you for the link. But making comments about masturbation just because I wasn't able to type everything out clearly is absurd.



it's been far too long since i had sleep, and finals are almost over. i'll put something that doesn't need editing 50 million times over after some rest...

 

[Wallydraigle]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: Freejack2

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Meh, I'm not an IV drug user, I do not have sex with men, I do not have sex with prostitutes, I do not have sex with IV drug users, I'm rather monogamous and don't have sex with people I barely know. The last thing I could care about is an AIDs vaccine.

But what a wonderful day it is in America that almost as much money is spent on AIDs research as cancer research in the hope that people will one day again be able to engage in all of the behaviors above without risk. Hurray.

Nice to know you are so shortsighted. In your view then they shouldn't spend money on cancer research either as cancer is usually caused by risky behavior.
Think about that next time you consume something that can cause cancer Mr high and mighty.

I agree. Selfish high and mightyers piss me off. Almost every disease is caused by 'risky behaviour'. Should all funding be stopped because it's easier not to engage in this risky behaviour? When you mix your culturally created ideas of "morals" with science is where I draw the line and put you on the other side with other people I have no respect for.

Shouldn't it? If you could take a pill and have your lung cancer cured would it be okay to smoke? If you could take a pill and grow a new liver, would it be okay to be a drunken idiot? If you could take a pill and never gain any weight would it be okay to eat all day long like there's no tommorrow? Maybe the answer to all these is yes. But if you could just not harm yourself in the first place wouldn't you be better off?

It seems that there are two schools of thought on this. One says that if you can treat all the symptoms then there's no need to make the problem go away. The other says that if you can make the problem go away, then there's no need to treat all the syptoms. I belong to the latter. It just seems like a more direct approach to me.

By the way, it's not a matter of morality for everybody. For some people it's just a matter practicality.

 

[Geekbabe]

Vaccines are developed to protect the PUBLIC health from communicable diseases.This at times will mean that we protect the health of folks who's beliefs and lifestyles we don't agree with. Sounds like a perfectly fine trade off to me if it means that somebody I love won't be sentenced to death for being human and making an error in judgement about who they chose to express their feelings for physically.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS


Morals aside, this is COMMON SENSE.

- Don't sleep around
- Don't shoot up

Those two simple things will virtually eliminate any chance you have of getting AIDS. Yes, there's always the freak accident but the odds are virtually nil.

What do we do about Africa? I dunno... It's not our (US) job to police the world & solve all their medical problems. Privately funded research would be the way to go. Hell, I might even donate some myself. But give me the option.

Viper GTS

I hope you never need a blood transfusion. The purpose of a vaccination is to prevent your contracting the disease from an unknown. You never know when, where, or how you'll be exposed to it, so why not just be safe.

Also, it very much so is our duty to mankind, as citizens of a more-highly-developed nation, to share our advancements in medicine to help the quality of life of needy countries. This dog-eat-dog, let them fend for themselves mindset is so archaic, it's sickening. The only thing that sets humans apart from animals is our sense of compassion; let's use some here.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Sounds like a perfectly fine trade off to me if it means that somebody I love won't be sentenced to death for being human and making an error in judgement about who they chose to express their feelings for physically.

Here in the real world there are consequences for actions.

Viper GTS

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Meh, I'm not an IV drug user, I do not have sex with men, I do not have sex with prostitutes, I do not have sex with IV drug users, I'm rather monogamous and don't have sex with people I barely know. The last thing I could care about is an AIDs vaccine.

But what a wonderful day it is in America that almost as much money is spent on AIDs research as cancer research in the hope that people will one day again be able to engage in all of the behaviors above without risk. Hurray.

Let me clue you into something: AIDS/HIV is not only a sexually transmitted/drug transmitted disease. Millions of people inherit this disease from their infected parents, people contract it from innocent blood transfusions -- hell, you may, one day, have to give mouth-to-mouth to someone who's been in an accident and has open wounds on their mouth, and contract it that way.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Beau

Originally posted by: Viper GTS


Morals aside, this is COMMON SENSE.

- Don't sleep around
- Don't shoot up

Those two simple things will virtually eliminate any chance you have of getting AIDS. Yes, there's always the freak accident but the odds are virtually nil.

What do we do about Africa? I dunno... It's not our (US) job to police the world & solve all their medical problems. Privately funded research would be the way to go. Hell, I might even donate some myself. But give me the option.

Viper GTS

I hope you never need a blood transfusion. The purpose of a vaccination is to prevent your contracting the disease from an unknown. You never know when, where, or how you'll be exposed to it, so why not just be safe.

Also, it very much so is our duty to mankind, as citizens of a more-highly-developed nation, to share our advancements in medicine to help the quality of life of needy countries. This dog-eat-dog, let them fend for themselves mindset is so archaic, it's sickening. The only thing that sets humans apart from animals is our sense of compassion; let's use some here.

That falls under freak accident. How many confirmed cases are there of people obtaining AIDS from a blood transfusion?

I would like the following:

1) Number of people who have received blood transfusions since AIDS first appeared
2) Number of people who have received AIDS from a blood transfusion

I will look as well, in between calls.

Viper GTS

 

[Nemesis77]

In the last few years there has been two cases of HIV-positive man having sex and raping women. Just last week there was case where a HIV-positive man brought women to his apartment, drugged them and raped them. Last time I heard, he had over 20 victims.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Beau

Originally posted by: Viper GTS


Morals aside, this is COMMON SENSE.

- Don't sleep around
- Don't shoot up

Those two simple things will virtually eliminate any chance you have of getting AIDS. Yes, there's always the freak accident but the odds are virtually nil.

What do we do about Africa? I dunno... It's not our (US) job to police the world & solve all their medical problems. Privately funded research would be the way to go. Hell, I might even donate some myself. But give me the option.

Viper GTS

I hope you never need a blood transfusion. The purpose of a vaccination is to prevent your contracting the disease from an unknown. You never know when, where, or how you'll be exposed to it, so why not just be safe.

Also, it very much so is our duty to mankind, as citizens of a more-highly-developed nation, to share our advancements in medicine to help the quality of life of needy countries. This dog-eat-dog, let them fend for themselves mindset is so archaic, it's sickening. The only thing that sets humans apart from animals is our sense of compassion; let's use some here.

That falls under freak accident. How many confirmed cases are there of people obtaining AIDS from a blood transfusion?

I would like the following:

1) Number of people who have received blood transfusions since AIDS first appeared
2) Number of people who have received AIDS from a blood transfusion

I will look as well, in between calls.

Viper GTS

Numbers aside, it is a possibility. Unless of course you consider freak accidents punishable by death, I think it'd be a wise idea to be covered with a vaccination.

Also, think of all the EMT's, doctors, nurses, etc., that are exposed to it on a daily basis... is it a mistake to help those with AIDS and possible contract it from them? and is that mistake one that should cost them thier lives?

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Sounds like a perfectly fine trade off to me if it means that somebody I love won't be sentenced to death for being human and making an error in judgement about who they chose to express their feelings for physically.

Here in the real world there are consequences for actions.

Viper GTS

Well we live in a country that has decided that protecting the Public Health is important to us.We dislike the spector of folks walking about with things like TB infecting others as they go about their lives. Hiv doesn't just affect the lives of "the bad people" it hurts children and people who's only mistake is being married to someone who's unfaithful or has developed a drug habit.

I personally feel that prevent and eradication of HIV is going to require a multi pronged approach, combing medical research,ongoing public outreach and education.There's no easy solution and no solution which will please everyone, I'd say that simply going for the solutions that have the potential to save as many lives as possible is the best way.

 

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Some of you may recall Don Francis as one of the pioneers (along with Harold Jaffe) in HIV/AIDS research. After leaving the CDC, he's been working on the development of an AIDS vaccine (using a method considered ineffective at best by most scientists).

The results should be in shortly.

Looking forward to the results.

Peace,
Dezign

 

[Yeeny]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Sounds like a perfectly fine trade off to me if it means that somebody I love won't be sentenced to death for being human and making an error in judgement about who they chose to express their feelings for physically.

Here in the real world there are consequences for actions.

Viper GTS

So a long slow painful suffering death is ok for stupid/unwise actions? What if it was not the person's bad choice, but one someone else made for them, ie by cheating on them? What if it were your daughter one day that made that bad decision. Or your sister? Would you feel the same then?

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS


That falls under freak accident. How many confirmed cases are there of people obtaining AIDS from a blood transfusion?

I would like the following:

1) Number of people who have received blood transfusions since AIDS first appeared
2) Number of people who have received AIDS from a blood transfusion

I will look as well, in between calls.

Viper GTS

Second item on your list is listed here: CDC Table 5. AIDS cases by age group, exposure category, and sex, reported through December 2001, United States

Cummulative US totals for AIDS cases contributed to transfusions: 8,971


And, just in case anyone else wanted some more statistics: CDC's U.S. HIV and AIDS cases reported through December 2001 Year-end edition Vol.13, No.2

 

[Fausto]

Hands up: who actually bothered to read the article?

<<crickets>>



Next time I'll just start a thread entitled "AIDS: Vaccines, Fags, Africa and You." with no content and let you all flame to your heart's content. The article is about the development of the vaccine and the man behind it. It's interesting. Really. I promise.

 

[Geekbabe]

Public Health protection, that means that we protect you,me, your cousin, the guy next door, we also protect
people who's lifestyle and choices are not in the mainstream.We do so for the greater good of protecting EVERYBODY else.It seems like a very fair trade off to me

 

[Wallydraigle]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Was it that hard? Was it? Okay, here it is:

1) People amass large pile of dough to use towards research to find a vaccine/cure for AIDS.
2) People then take Large Pile of Dough, and instead of using it for research, they give it to someone.
3) Those people go to Africa, India, your developing nation of choice, etc., and tell the people there, "Hey, don't screw around, you'll get AIDs and die!"
4) People realize the error of their ways and stop sleeping around.
5) AIDS goes away completely within 20 years
6) No more AIDS

What people? Who's got all this money? Who says they want to spend it on HIV education? Who says the nations in question will listen (you're talking about very different social norms from our own)? Who says they even have infrastructure to disseminate the education? Who says taxpayers won't freak out at the thought of their tax dollars going to help a nation they don't give two sh*ts about? Who says the problem will go away? Never underestimate the power of people to be stupid and ignorant. Think about teens and pregnancy rumors (won't get preggers if you have sex standing up/in a pool/etc). By your model, we should have nipped teen pregnancy and STDs in general in the bud years ago. It's just not that simple.

What people? The people working towards a vaccine of course. The people doing to education could have been whoever was going to administer the vaccines.

Who's got the money? Well, someone *had* the money, if they spent it to research a vaccine.

Who says they want to educate? Well, that's the thing, they obviously don't, they would rather just treat symptoms, but I hold that they *should* want to educate. They want to get rid of AIDS, and education seems like a more straight forward way to do it.

Who says they'll listen? Well, they have to listen, someday. These countries aren't going to stay in the stone age forever. In the mean while we should just not try? They have to learn the truth sometime.

Who says they have the infrastructure to disseminate the education? I don't see any reason why they couldn't use the same infrastructure they would have used to disseminate the vaccine.

Who says taxpayers won't freak out? They'll freak out over education, but not a vaccine? Who cares anyway, it's not like we matter, we're just the people.

Who says the problem will go away? Well, we have access to modern information, and we don't have 30% of our population with AIDS. Of course there will be stupid people who don't listen, chalk it up to natural selection.

"By your model, we should have nipped teen pregnancy and STDs in general in the bud years ago. It's just not that simple." It's only a problem if you choose to have sex. Those who refuse to follow their common sense, or have none, would have done the same no matter what.


I'm not opposed to a vaccine, in fact I'm glad we might have it. I just think that the money could have been better spent by bringing these developing countries up to speed with the modern world. By educating these people, we bring them closer to being a developed society, and we make the world a better place. By making an AIDS vaccine, the world stays the same as is alwasy was, only people don't get AIDS anymore, *if they can get the vaccine*. I guess we just belong to different schools of thought on this.

 

[Gnurb]

This guy is a pioneer, a great scientist, and a hero. My greatest hope in life is that I will make a lasting impact on this earth similiar in magnitude to his.

Thanks for the link

 

[Yeeny]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
Hands up: who actually bothered to read the article?

<<crickets>>



Next time I'll just start a thread entitled "AIDS: Vaccines, Fags, Africa and You." with no content and let you all flame to your heart's content. The article is about the development of the vaccine and the man behind it. It's interesting. Really. I promise.

I did! It really is interesting, how hard he had to fight to get that going. I hope it works, but even if it doesn't, its definitely setting the stage for the future.

 

[Gnurb]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Here in the real world there are consequences for actions.

Viper GTS

And I thank any greater power that may be listening that there are at least a few people in this world that aren't as selfish and shortsighted as you.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: GirlFriday

I did! It really is interesting, how hard he had to fight to get that going. I hope it works, but even if it doesn't, its definitely setting the stage for the future.

As did I. It's really a sad time when money/politics dictate what efforts to save lives may succeed, and which will be killed.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Beau

Originally posted by: Viper GTS


That falls under freak accident. How many confirmed cases are there of people obtaining AIDS from a blood transfusion?

I would like the following:

1) Number of people who have received blood transfusions since AIDS first appeared
2) Number of people who have received AIDS from a blood transfusion

I will look as well, in between calls.

Viper GTS

Second item on your list is listed here: CDC Table 5. AIDS cases by age group, exposure category, and sex, reported through December 2001, United States

Cummulative US totals for AIDS cases contributed to transfusions: 8,971


And, just in case anyone else wanted some more statistics: CDC's U.S. HIV and AIDS cases reported through December 2001 Year-end edition Vol.13, No.2

8,971 is a lot, but the odds are still quite low. The information I'm finding suggests between 1 and 2 cases per million.

I do not want AIDS (duh), but I also do not want public funding spent developing a vaccine for me. I know how to improve my odds, and I am quite comfortable with those odds. I'll take my chances with AIDS.

Viper GTS

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Beau

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Meh, I'm not an IV drug user, I do not have sex with men, I do not have sex with prostitutes, I do not have sex with IV drug users, I'm rather monogamous and don't have sex with people I barely know. The last thing I could care about is an AIDs vaccine.

But what a wonderful day it is in America that almost as much money is spent on AIDs research as cancer research in the hope that people will one day again be able to engage in all of the behaviors above without risk. Hurray.

Let me clue you into something: AIDS/HIV is not only a sexually transmitted/drug transmitted disease. Millions of people inherit this disease from their infected parents, people contract it from innocent blood transfusions -- hell, you may, one day, have to give mouth-to-mouth to someone who's been in an accident and has open wounds on their mouth, and contract it that way.

Even including the early days of HIV when screening was non-existant, only about 8,000 people have contracted HIV through blood transfusions in the US. That may be a lot but compared to the total number of HIV cases its miniscule.

 

[LH]

Someone mentioned HPV.

They have a vaccine for HPV, so far its been 100% effective at stopping HPV. Its undergoing further clinical trials, and is supposed to be on the market in 2005. If it works, eventually every teenage girl will have the vaccine as part of their innoculations.

 

[MichaelD]

*meekly raises hand*

I read the article and found it interesting. An AIDS vaccinne would be a beautiful thing. I could care less about "the gay community"

, but straights get AIDS too. That one-night-stand you take home from TeenieBopper CluB Ecstacy might go both ways...with God knows who. Then you dip your wick w/o a bag on and CONGRATS!!! You now have AIDS. It happens.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Just a side note to the tables that show the breaddown of infection by groups/transmission vectors...

We have a VERY active Infectious Disease clinic @ my hospital, & they suggest that the hetrosexual transmission vector is pretty inaccurate, it seems that it's more honorable/acceptable to lie & say you contracted a disease by heterosexual contact rather than homosexual contact or IV drug abuse.

The statistics gatherers are well aware of the limitations of the stats, but there's nothing that can be done to make the results more realistic.

To get a better grip on how innacurately the statistics are reported look @ this table of Hepatitis C & note that the heterosexual transmission vector is minimal: CDC Hep C

I'm not saying it's impossible to get HIV through "normal" sex, it's just that some high risk behaviors are grouped together, & that people lie about how they contracted a particular virus...

BTW, I'm all for a vaccine, I'm getting re-inoculated for smallpox soon, already immunized against Hepatitis "B" & I'll sure as hell get the HIV vaccine, & I wish to hell they'd come up with a vaccine for Hepatitis "C".