U are saying 20+ title will support mantle lol.Star Swarm demo is slated for release this month on Steam.
And if the folks over at DICE can ever get a handle on their bugs (which incidentally are often DRIVER RELATED), well the BF4 Mantle patch should show up soon. Myself, I'd rather see DICE take their sweet time, and get their first Mantle-related patch right, rather than rush it. I'll probably never play BF4 though (FPS give me motion sickness), so my opinion isn't as relevant.
And the Star Swarm benches, I tend to take at face value, based on the personalities involved. Of course, that engine is many many months away from a game release. Brad Wardell is a huge proponent of multicore usage, as are the Civ 5 guys.
Thief's North American release date is set for February 25th, 2014.
http://www.primagames.com/games/thief/feature/games-2014-thief
Other stuff is further down the pipeline, but where we have Developers already commenting about their personal experience working with the engine, I think that's a little more meaningful than just a press release.
One of the Oxide guys in the q&a mentioned 'seeing' a texture size issue (one texture was way bigger than the others), which became apparent afterwords using AMD's Mantle tools, which he was able to fix/resize fairly quickly. Others mentioned that they were able to more easily see how their resources were being utilized/which threads where where, utilizing the Mantle tools, and hence were able to reshuffle things to take better advantage of the GPU and CPU resources available. I also had the impression from many of their comments that the AMD Mantle tools were fairly easy to pick up, at least from the four that were commenting the most. The guy at the left in the Q&A video didn't say much at all...
The Oxide guys are not only making good progress with Mantle, they are now incorporating things (cinematic level fx, motion blur, etc) that would (according to them) simply have been too expensive resource wise with the current framework (DX11/GL).
The lifting of the Kaveri NDAs won't be all that meaningful, as pretty much all of the current benchmarking suites do not include Mantle (unless the BF4 Mantle patch is released by then). But Mantle isn't Kaveri specific in any case.
So yeah, until we see the releases, there is no way to really know for ourselves, but in the meantime, debating the merits of the moving parts is fun!
I fully expect Intel's Graphics division and NVidia to not stand still on this, and indeed they are not. The question is whether they can come up with a similarly performing/better solution, and how long it will take them to do so. Or perhaps jump on the Mantle bandwagon, which so far I've seen no direct indication of.
It's the 20+ titles onboard already thing that I think is the big news. In the past, when we've seen standards flounder (Glide, etc), it's been because multiple major developers didn't jump onboard. This time around, we already have 5 engines onboard, and it's been less than 6 months since Mantle's existence was officially disclosed. While it can take a year or more to bring a game to market, having this many onboard already is a good sign.
I certainly expect other developers to take the 'wait and see' approach, but I'm sure we will see more widespread adoption once Mantle hits the mainstream market.
The AMD guy in the Q&A did mention that AMD SPECIFICALLY limited the number of partners they brought onboard initially, so that they could stay focused on working with this small handful of developers firsthand. And based on the q&a, it sounded like the developers had good interactions with AMD on their end, although one commented that about 75% of the 'problems' which cropped up turned out to be on the developer's' end, and were solved within a day or two once they spotted the error/problem in their own code.
That revelation shows that even the early alpha version of Mantle was already very robust. In fairness to the developers, though, with Mantle they are doing some things in ways they had not tried/were not available before, so yeah there is going to be some hit and miss in the development process, as there always are.
So, the short form, soon... :biggrin:
U are saying 20+ title will support mantle lol.
Not even proper 10 are announced or support mantle right now.
The Developer which are talking and showing slides are AMD gaming Evolved partners.
This year only 3 title are conformed Sniper Elite 3,Thief 4 and BF4 due
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/.../13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-SupportCloud Imperium Games is currently developing “Star Citizen,” the highly anticipated, crowd-funded PC space simulator from legendary game designer Chris Roberts.
“AMD’s Mantle will allow us to extract more performance from an AMD Radeon GPU than any other graphics API,” said Chris Roberts, CEO, Cloud Imperium Games. “Mantle is vitally important for a game like Star Citizen, which is being designed with the need for massive GPU horsepower. With Mantle, our team can spend more time achieving our perfect artistic vision, and less time worrying about whether or not today’s gaming hardware will be ready to deliver it.”
NSF is lie and game limited to 30fps and it will be same forever Dev said.As goes for Planet vs Zombie is not a AAA game.So far only Thief 4(UE3),BF4 and Sniper Elite 3 use it.AMD says 20 in their marketing slide.
And here is the list of titles that have confirmed Mantle support, again, from one of my previous posts.
Titles include the 'Mars' game (working title, Nitrous engine), the new Star Control (Nitrous), Battlefield 4, Thief, Sniper Elite III, Star Citizen.
Star Citizen is VERY MUCH confirmed as using Mantle, and is in the Alpha stages right now.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/.../13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support
The Star Citizen anticipated release schedule is here:
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Anticipated_Release_Schedule
So, yeah, while the 'final' release of Star Citizen/Squadron 42 is expected as early 2015, in the meantime there are a bunch of modules being released for those whom have done the kickstarter thingl. Incidentally, they have crossed the $36 Million mark on their kickstarter (impressive!).
From various articles discussing Frostbite's Mantle announcement:
Other Frostbite engine franchises slated for Mantle support (according to the Frostbite folks) include: Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare, Dragon Age: Inquisition, a Mass Effect game, Need For Speed: Rivals, Mirror's Edge 2, and Star Stars: Battlefront. The Frostbite folks claim there are another 7+ titles also under development utilizing Mantle. That adds up to 19+ titles so far (feel free to call out others).
So, even discounting the 7+ Frostbite titles in development that haven't been named yet, that Frostbite said that they are working on, that still leaves 12 NAMED titles. Dunno whom is working on #20 though...
I fully expect Intel's Graphics division and NVidia to not stand still on this, and indeed they are not. The question is whether they can come up with a similarly performing/better solution, and how long it will take them to do so. Or perhaps jump on the Mantle bandwagon, which so far I've seen no direct indication of.
U are saying 20+ title will support mantle lol.
Not even proper 10 are announced or support mantle right now.
The Developer which are talking and showing slides are AMD gaming Evolved partners.
This year only 3 title are conformed Sniper Elite 3,Thief 4 and BF4 due
AMD says 20 in their marketing slide.
And here is the list of titles that have confirmed Mantle support, again, from one of my previous posts.
Titles include the 'Mars' game (working title, Nitrous engine), the new Star Control (Nitrous), Battlefield 4, Thief, Sniper Elite III, Star Citizen.
Star Citizen is VERY MUCH confirmed as using Mantle, and is in the Alpha stages right now.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/.../13362-Star-Citizen-To-Include-Mantle-Support
The Star Citizen anticipated release schedule is here:
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Anticipated_Release_Schedule
So, yeah, while the 'final' release of Star Citizen/Squadron 42 is expected as early 2015, in the meantime there are a bunch of modules being released for those whom have done the kickstarter thingl. Incidentally, they have crossed the $36 Million mark on their kickstarter (impressive!).
From various articles discussing Frostbite's Mantle announcement:
Other Frostbite engine franchises slated for Mantle support (according to the Frostbite folks) include: Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare, Dragon Age: Inquisition, a Mass Effect game, Need For Speed: Rivals, Mirror's Edge 2, and Star Stars: Battlefront. The Frostbite folks claim there are another 7+ titles also under development utilizing Mantle. That adds up to 19+ titles so far (feel free to call out others).
So, even discounting the 7+ Frostbite titles in development that haven't been named yet, which Frostbite has said that they are working on, that still leaves 12 NAMED titles. Dunno whom is working on #20 though...
20+ titles does not mean it coming early.It could be 2016 till 2018.
If u see there are only 4 to 5 AMD games evolved games are launching in 2014.
Thief 4,DA 3,Murder=Soul suspect,Sniper elite 3.
Where as Nvidia
Dying light,Witcher 3,Watch dogs,Reset,The elder scrolls online,TitanFall,Mad Max,The Division,The Evil Within,The Wolfenstein new order.
I am on topic.U dont see my point.Some of people here say All games will be developed on Mantle blaaaa and talks about slides and so many games are on its way but where.Where are these so many developers which asked for this API?Start a TWIMTBP thread. It has nothing to do with Mantle.
I am on topic.U dont see my point.Some of people here say All games will be developed on Mantle blaaaa and talks about slides and so many games are on its way but where.Where are these so many developers which asked for this API?
It is a business and developers will do investment where money is generate more with that Intel and Nvidia are more stable and have vast majority.And dont tell that Developers asked AMD to make an API that cannot be even use by not more than 8 to 10% user.So that BS and to save them self.
Who says that all games will be developed on Mantle? 20 games is a great start.
What do you mean where are all of these devs? Developing those 20 games, I'd imagine. Don't forget that Mantle is leveraging the console connection with GCN and also the APU's. Add that to your 8%-10% calculations as far as value to the devs.
We've had devs say they asked for Mantle. You can choose to ignore that if you want to, but it makes it kind of ridiculous sounding to continue to say they didn't do it when they are on the record saying that they did.
Intel and nVidia are off topic again/still. They have nothing to do with Mantle. This thread is supposed to be about Mantle. It's the only thread we're allowed. I'm sure you could start 10 threads if you want to about GE vs. TWIMTBP vs. Intel's dev program (Whatever that is).
20+ titles does not mean it coming early.It could be 2016 till 2018.
If u see there are only 4 to 5 AMD games evolved games are launching in 2014.
Thief 4,DA 3,Murder=Soul suspect,Sniper elite 3.
Where as Nvidia
Dying light,Witcher 3,Watch dogs,Reset,The elder scrolls online,TitanFall,Mad Max,The Division,The Evil Within,The Wolfenstein new order.
No info was given dunno about res. but it looked like ultra settings to me, it points to a high end build but still it could be an apu + an r9 270x.At what resolution/settings?
U can check the thread u will finds some names.Who says that all games will be developed on Mantle? 20 games is a great start.
What do you mean where are all of these devs? Developing those 20 games, I'd imagine. Don't forget that Mantle is leveraging the console connection with GCN and also the APU's. Add that to your 8%-10% calculations as far as value to the devs.
We've had devs say they asked for Mantle. You can choose to ignore that if you want to, but it makes it kind of ridiculous sounding to continue to say they didn't do it when they are on the record saying that they did.
Intel and nVidia are off topic again/still. They have nothing to do with Mantle. This thread is supposed to be about Mantle. It's the only thread we're allowed. I'm sure you could start 10 threads if you want to about GE vs. TWIMTBP vs. Intel's dev program (Whatever that is).
I said kaveri PLUS an r9 270 mate not just kaveri apus integrated bullshit and only that build with no real gfx card pushes med 1080p. at 30 fps that you mentioned. This new video can be an apu and a mid range gfx associated with budget rigs pushing med OR high OR ultra at 100 fps average and 60fps min.Not a chance in hell, we already have videos of Kaveri running BF4 around 30 FPS at 1080p with everything set to Medium, and in the teaser they showed today the average was around ~100 FPS.
So it had a to be a high end part.
And yes those hiccups were actually VERY noticeable, you could also see them on the performance overlay as well (2 huge yellow spikes).
Star Swarm demo is slated for release this month on Steam.
And if the folks over at DICE can ever get a handle on their bugs (which incidentally are often DRIVER RELATED), well the BF4 Mantle patch should show up soon. Myself, I'd rather see DICE take their sweet time, and get their first Mantle-related patch right, rather than rush it. I'll probably never play BF4 though (FPS give me motion sickness), so my opinion isn't as relevant.
And the Star Swarm benches, I tend to take at face value, based on the personalities involved. Of course, that engine is many many months away from a game release. Brad Wardell is a huge proponent of multicore usage, as are the Civ 5 guys.
Thief's North American release date is set for February 25th, 2014.
http://www.primagames.com/games/thief/feature/games-2014-thief
Other stuff is further down the pipeline, but where we have Developers already commenting about their personal experience working with the engine, I think that's a little more meaningful than just a press release.
One of the Oxide guys in the q&a mentioned 'seeing' a texture size issue (one texture was way bigger than the others), which became apparent afterwords using AMD's Mantle tools, which he was able to fix/resize fairly quickly. Others mentioned that they were able to more easily see how their resources were being utilized/which threads where where, utilizing the Mantle tools, and hence were able to reshuffle things to take better advantage of the GPU and CPU resources available. I also had the impression from many of their comments that the AMD Mantle tools were fairly easy to pick up, at least from the four that were commenting the most. The guy at the left in the Q&A video didn't say much at all...
The Oxide guys are not only making good progress with Mantle, they are now incorporating things (cinematic level fx, motion blur, etc) that would (according to them) simply have been too expensive resource wise with the current framework (DX11/GL).
The lifting of the Kaveri NDAs won't be all that meaningful, as pretty much all of the current benchmarking suites do not include Mantle (unless the BF4 Mantle patch is released by then). But Mantle isn't Kaveri specific in any case.
So yeah, until we see the releases, there is no way to really know for ourselves, but in the meantime, debating the merits of the moving parts is fun!
I fully expect Intel's Graphics division and NVidia to not stand still on this, and indeed they are not. The question is whether they can come up with a similarly performing/better solution, and how long it will take them to do so. Or perhaps jump on the Mantle bandwagon, which so far I've seen no direct indication of.
It's the 20+ titles onboard already thing that I think is the big news. In the past, when we've seen standards flounder (Glide, etc), it's been because multiple major developers didn't jump onboard. This time around, we already have 5 engines onboard, and it's been less than 6 months since Mantle's existence was officially disclosed. While it can take a year or more to bring a game to market, having this many onboard already is a good sign.
I certainly expect other developers to take the 'wait and see' approach, but I'm sure we will see more widespread adoption once Mantle hits the mainstream market.
The AMD guy in the Q&A did mention that AMD SPECIFICALLY limited the number of partners they brought onboard initially, so that they could stay focused on working with this small handful of developers firsthand. And based on the q&a, it sounded like the developers had good interactions with AMD on their end, although one commented that about 75% of the 'problems' which cropped up turned out to be on the developer's' end, and were solved within a day or two once they spotted the error/problem in their own code.
That revelation shows that even the early alpha version of Mantle was already very robust. In fairness to the developers, though, with Mantle they are doing some things in ways they had not tried/were not available before, so yeah there is going to be some hit and miss in the development process, as there always are.
So, the short form, soon... :biggrin:
A NEW NFS title mate. Rivals is frostbite 3 sure but it doesnt support mantle. New title in the works will support mantle.NSF is lie and game limited to 30fps and it will be same forever Dev said.As goes for Planet vs Zombie is not a AAA game.So far only Thief 4(UE3),BF4 and Sniper Elite 3 use it.
U can check the thread u will finds some names.
Speak for the industry? some of the game engines companies have forum, check the Unity forum for example and search for mantle on it, Unity is a very popular engine for indies games, and most of the forum users are actual devs, i see a very common trend going on about mantle over the internet, with 1, maybe 2 users pushing for it at all cost dismissing everything others point out about the downsides in a never ending discussion.
I repeat:
A lot of empty PR.
No matter how much "wall-of-text" you use...nothing changes this fact:
EMPTY PR...prove me wrong...or admit I am right.
Speak for the industry? some of the game engines companies have forum, check the Unity forum for example and search for mantle on it, Unity is a very popular engine for indies games, and most of the forum users are actual devs, i see a very common trend going on about mantle over the internet, with 1, maybe 2 users pushing for it at all cost dismissing everything others point out about the downsides in a never ending discussion.
I repeat:
A lot of empty PR.
No matter how much "wall-of-text" you use...nothing changes this fact:
EMPTY PR...prove me wrong...or admit I am right.
While they are at it start a thread about PR, and talk about that crap there. No one other than the 3 people who keep spouting off about it care. It's getting really annoying, and it's COMPLETELY irrelevant to what should be discussed in the mantle thread.
Everything on the internet is essentially PR. Benchmarks, sneak peeks, Newegg reviews, tech websites, it's all PR of some sort.
If you consider the developers commenting directly on their experiences with developing games using Mantle in a uncontrolled Q&A environment 'empty', then I can't help you. Myself, I learned a lot of intersting information from that particular Q&A...
I consider it useful information. You find it empty. I'l agree to disagree and move on, and will not address you again on this topic, in the interest in keeping things civil.
***
burden of proof
"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim."
YOU! need to prove its empty PR, not the other way around.
Right now your in the wrong, because your makeing assumptions that are not based on facts, but your dislike of a company.
Lonbjerg please respect this (others views), we have all now heard your views about anything AMD claims being worthless because you "believe" its just empty PR.
You dont have to repeat yourself a million times in a thread.
It contributes very little if anything to the discussion, it more or less just derails it.
Next time you do it, i ll ask a forum mod about it.
They showed you demos, and benchmarks.False...the PR made the claims, they have the burden of proof.
Your just accuseing me of what you where doing.You are using the fallacy of "shifting the burden of proof"...I only see that applied to religious idiocracy, here read up since you apparently know nothing about fallacies:
http://infidels.org/library/modern/m....html#shifting
Now AMD PR needs to prove their claim....they have the burden of proof...not me.