The AMD Mantle Thread

[DamnedLife]

Btw this video:*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfXI1pn5los system spec were:*AMD*A10 Kaveri-Processor and single AMD Radeon-GPU R9 290x on 4K monitor.

 

[Silverforce11]

Btw this video:*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfXI1pn5los system spec were:*AMD*A10 Kaveri-Processor and single AMD Radeon-GPU R9 290x on 4K monitor.

What are the settings?

Because those are impressive FPS for 4K.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Hard to tell anything out of that video tbh since the whole stream stuttered for me. I'll wait for the patch or benchmark, either one works.

 

[DamnedLife]

Even if a game is mantle enabled we are going to have comparison issues. Games designed for DX may show lower or higher benefit depending on their architecture. Equally developers will try it and determine it makes no difference and then won't bother releasing a patch with it in.

Games developers with Mantle in mind may have worse performance on DX purely due to different optimisation techniques. In the end I think it's going to be hard to tell if it's worth it without seeing a lot of different games and we need to hear about all the cases where it didn't help as well as those where it did. That selection bias will show a consensus of benefit but it won't be the complete truth.

With mantle i dont think there will be much of those apples to apples benches per-se. Nitrous is designed from scratch with dx 11 mt in mind and then very late in the cycle they associated themselves with mantle at least thats what they say in their blogs. Now if that game shows great performance increase for dx but a gigantic performance increase and/or feature implementation then it is logical to say that engine works best with mantle. At least agree with this. Apart from that engine dx is overhead constrained while mantle isnt and therefore still shows mantle in a good light but that doesnt mean just because they arent comparable or benched against each other in another game engine, dx part of it is forgotten unpatched and unoptimised. It just shows that mantle is better at those circumstances compared to dx with gcn cards.

 

[DamnedLife]

What are the settings?

Because those are impressive FPS for 4K.

Looked like ultra but dont know about it. Only specs are known atm.

btw i noticed it is sp bf4 so i fired up that campaign mission and noticed that it autosaves at the point of those 2 spikes with stutter. I asked repi on twitter about it but no answer so far. I dunno maybe game streamed to big screen and those were jitters, or if it is stutter in the game then they should fix it.

 

[krumme]

Even if a game is mantle enabled we are going to have comparison issues. Games designed for DX may show lower or higher benefit depending on their architecture. Equally developers will try it and determine it makes no difference and then won't bother releasing a patch with it in.

Games developers with Mantle in mind may have worse performance on DX purely due to different optimisation techniques. In the end I think it's going to be hard to tell if it's worth it without seeing a lot of different games and we need to hear about all the cases where it didn't help as well as those where it did. That selection bias will show a consensus of benefit but it won't be the complete truth.

Fortunately for gamers its more simple. We know what we play and with what gear and what settings.

I play by far mostly bf4. And its the only game where performance improvement is interesting for me as of right now.

 

[Skurge]

Btw this video:*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfXI1pn5los system spec were:*AMD*A10 Kaveri-Processor and single AMD Radeon-GPU R9 290x on 4K monitor.

Im watching this on my phone so I don't know if its the game or the video. But that was not even remotely smooth. Well ultra on my system with a 290 at 200% scaling performs worse than that. But still. Looked very choppy.

 

[tonyfreak215]

NSF is lie and game limited to 30fps and it will be same forever Dev said.As goes for Planet vs Zombie is not a AAA game.So far only Thief 4(UE3),BF4 and Sniper Elite 3 use it.

So just because it's not a AAA title you can just disregard it? Doesn't work that way.

I am on topic.U dont see my point.Some of people here say All games will be developed on Mantle blaaaa and talks about slides and so many games are on its way but where.Where are these so many developers which asked for this API?

It is a business and developers will do investment where money is generate more with that Intel and Nvidia are more stable and have vast majority.And dont tell that Developers asked AMD to make an API that cannot be even use by not more than 8 to 10% user.So that BS and to save them self.

You do realize it takes time to make games, right?

One thing about the BF4 patch, it shows that Mantle can be added to games retroactively. Would be neat to see some cult games get a mantle treatment.

I also love how people always state only X% can use it. You do realize that market share constantly fluctuates, right? You are also completely disregarding that all future AMD APUs will support this. Typically processors tend to sell much more than discrete GPUs.

 

[DamnedLife]

I post about differences in games, you post about me...see the difference?

So its a proven fact that only kids play bf4 and only grown ups play arma 3? And this "fact" is one of the differences between these games in your mind, not just your own opinion or idea on the matter? Your own idea makes facts in your mind and you make your own anti PR in this forum. Anti bf4 anti amd just long as it suits you and your ideas. I saw the gsync thread you "posted" on but there you are like a mitten purring nothing more bc it suits you to overlook the fact that nvidia side of things ALSO have PR. But nooo nvidia is really really trustworthy so their PR at least gets the benefit of the doubt unlike amd with clearly saltied track record you keep in their regards.

 

[BrightCandle]

Its actually interesting that BF4 was shown with mantle at CES. That does suggest maybe its done. I wonder if its held back for pure marketing reasons, that is they don't want to release Mantle when clearly they have other bugs to fix and it would look bad with their customers.

 

[DamnedLife]

Im the one postin alink to a video segment that features mantle in bf4 mind you. It doesnt count as the absolute proof but still its something, as it shows a constant flat line at the fps overlay in game unlike dx. What has PR-bullshit-guy posted apart from his own ideas. Let me tell you nothing. I think he is working at nvidia pr deparment or something thats what kind of impression he left on me. He is hypocritical to say the least bc while giving his own opinions on the matter and nothing more he asks ask to not give any of our opinions originated from statements and videos we share, but just hard proofs. When we say wait for it, he is hell bent on it being pr that he just doesnt consider for one second that benches are on the way that may ridicule the hell out of him, showing him he was in the wrong all the time.


Callouts and use of inappropriate language is against the forum rules.

-Rvenger

 

[Lonbjerg]

So its a proven fact that only kids play bf4 and only grown ups play arma 3? And this "fact" is one of the differences between these games in your mind, not just your own opinion or idea on the matter? Your own idea makes facts in your mind and you make your own anti PR in this forum. Anti bf4 anti amd just long as it suits you and your ideas. I saw the gsync thread you "posted" on but there you are like a mitten purring nothing more bc it suits you to overlook the fact that nvidia side of things ALSO have PR. But nooo nvidia is really really trustworthy so their PR at least gets the benefit of the doubt unlike amd with clearly saltied track record you keep in their regards.

I trust Anand and Ryan (independant reviwers):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review
(notice the word: REWIEW ?!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhLYYYvFp9A
(hands on)

Show me the same with Mantle...reviews/hands on?

If not...you are comparing PR vs reviews...which has been my point all the way!

 

[krumme]

Its actually interesting that BF4 was shown with mantle at CES. That does suggest maybe its done. I wonder if its held back for pure marketing reasons, that is they don't want to release Mantle when clearly they have other bugs to fix and it would look bad with their customers.

Thats certainly a possibility from the viewpoint of EA. And selecting kaveri launch is better than the 28 of december for AMD. But anyway showing a demo means nothing. It could be dx for that matter. I still find it very fast to get Mantle this fast after release. Engines takes years to develop. FB is 5 years now, and using a new API is not an easy task no matter how extremely simple mantle is to implement.

If we look how drivers and engines can improve - take the first 6 months for CGN as example or Fermi drivers during the first year, i would expect to see some very solid improvement with mantle api during and the engines during the next 3-4 years as its so new, and the tools is even in beta.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Thats certainly a possibility from the viewpoint of EA. And selecting kaveri launch is better than the 28 of december for AMD. But anyway showing a demo means nothing. It could be dx for that matter. I still find it very fast to get Mantle this fast after release. Engines takes years to develop. FB is 5 years now, and using a new API is not an easy task no matter how extremely simple mantle is to implement.

If we look how drivers and engines can improve - take the first 6 months for CGN as example or Fermi drivers during the first year, i would expect to see some very solid improvement with mantle api during and the engines during the next 3-4 years as its so new, and the tools is even in beta.

Wasn't the PR claim that Mantle took 2 man-months to implemnt in BF4?
I guess they only have 1 guy working on it now?

 

[Paul98]

Anyone who has played BF4 campaign mind trying to see what FPS and the performance graph looks like at the part they showed?

 

[zlatan]

Thats certainly a possibility from the viewpoint of EA. And selecting kaveri launch is better than the 28 of december for AMD. But anyway showing a demo means nothing. It could be dx for that matter. I still find it very fast to get Mantle this fast after release. Engines takes years to develop. FB is 5 years now, and using a new API is not an easy task no matter how extremely simple mantle is to implement.

Mantle is very close to the PS4 API. So it is posibble to implement the same optimization to Mantle, and it will work as good as on the PS4.

 

[Stuka87]

Anyone who has played BF4 campaign mind trying to see what FPS and the performance graph looks like at the part they showed?

I have played the campaign, including that level. But I did not play at 4K, so I do not think my experience is comparable. I played at 1080P at mostly Ultra settings, few things turned down. There is a lot going on there though, and is one of the more demanding areas in the single player campaign. Lot going on with all the waves and effects going on.

But still not as demanding as multi-player. I was able to sustain 60fps the majority of the time (few drops to high 50's). And those drops were most likely CPU related. In 64 player multiplayer I average 45ish FPS because my CPU is pegged. Mantle should have a decent impact on me if it does help with CPU load.

 

[tonyfreak215]

But the PR claims this is soooo easy and simple to implement...are you saying the PR is wrong now?

It's all relative. For example, doing an (car) engine swap is easy for me, but for someone else it might be hard or even impossible.

I don't know how hard it is to implement a completely different, new and untested rendering path but I'm sure its easier than switching from DX to another non-mantle alternative.

As for it not being implemented in BF4, they are currently working on fixing *cough* finishing *cough* the game.

We all understand that you are trying to keep AMD people grounded, but it comes to a point where enough is enough and it starts being detrimental to the thread.

It has already scared off Paul98, a dev, who was able to give some pretty good insight on Mantle.

 

[tonyfreak215]

Wasn't the PR claim that Mantle took 2 man-months to implemnt in BF4?
I guess they only have 1 guy working on it now?

Do you even acknowledge that BF4 has had issues?

Do you not think that having a game so broken they are being sued, enough of a reason to delay the Mantle patch and work on the non-mantle portion instead?

 

[krumme]

Mantle is very close to the PS4 API. So it is posibble to implement the same optimization to Mantle, and it will work as good as on the PS4.

Yes and thats why Johan is promising mantle from the game releaseday on all the next fb3 titles.

Dx is very difficult the debug as the devs dont know where the problems is. Oxide explained it in their presentation and it was mentioned several times during the q&a at apu13. So i think mantle brings less bugs in games and we dont have to upgrade the driver every second week. Lol.

 

[3DVagabond]

Yes and thats why Johan is promising mantle from the game releaseday on all the next fb3 titles.

Dx is very difficult the debug as the devs dont know where the problems is. Oxide explained it in their presentation and it was mentioned several times during the q&a at apu13. So i think mantle brings less bugs in games and we dont have to upgrade the driver every second week. Lol.

FWIU the game is optimized to the driver as opposed to the other way around, as it is now.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms16uGxQzSY

Full AMD stream directly from the source instead of the stuttering mess. Starts at 31:00

 

[bystander36]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms16uGxQzSY

Full AMD stream directly from the source instead of the stuttering mess. Starts at 31:00

That didn't look too hot, but it may be those problems that they are still working on, and why it is not released yet.

 

[Gloomy]

I get spikes like that when I plug something into the computer and it triggers a pop up. I wouldn't worry about it since the rest of the capture looked pretty smooth.

I'm not sure what we're supposed to learn from that, since they didn't give us any specs. AMD always forgets the little details

 

[krumme]

FWIU the game is optimized to the driver as opposed to the other way around, as it is now.

As i know the programming dudes they always prefer to know they can solve the problems themselves instead of having to talk to others - especially from a different company - waiting before the can proceed.

I think this issue is a major bennefit with the programmability of mantle.

In perspective the programmability of mantle probably plays a far larger part in its success than i imagined from 3 monts ago. A large part of Johans presentation was about programmability and the q&a at apu13 was full of it.