The anti-crypto thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
Which is precisely what people are telling you is the problem. Any attempt to do something worthwhile with this gets ruined by greedy people.

Ruined by greedy people? In what world? People didn't respond to GRIDCoin or CureCoin because they didn't innovate in the space in any way that attracted attention from Bitcoiners et al. It was just: hey, look at this Bitcoin/Litecoin clone that offers nothing interesting in the blockchain space; meanwhile, the DC community was completely asleep at the wheel! Why didn't all the DC projects make mining mandatory for their projects? Why didn't they smell the money, and realize that folding etc. could not only lead to cures for cancer (and other diseases) but also provide much-needed cash for research communities?

Clearly the fault lies at the feet of the DC community for their failure to get involved with blockchain. Folding-to-mine was such an obvious fit, and yet the only efforts in that direction were tepid at best with very little support from the DC community.
 
Reactions: VirtualLarry

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,979
126
It's relevant to the fact that the "collapse" of exchanges more likely coincides with a cloud service outage than a market downturn. An objective (read: mine) analysis of whether or not an actual crash has occurred informs us to what might have lead to the outrage; namely, the outage was not triggered by a crash, but may well have triggered a dip. In other words, you're completely backwards.
Multiple sites hosted by different ISPs, by different cloud service providers, situated in different countries don't get impacted all at once unless it's a concerted effort, especially if local internet for everyone else isn't impacted. I didn't see any mass internet outages in May 2021, not even in Khazakstan.

That's not "objective analysis", it's utter lunacy.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,979
126
If you think cryptobros don't pirate you're more delusional than I thought.
More examples of "virtuous" cryptobros:

Stealing $370,000 worth of power every month: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/tech...stealing-370-000-electricity-every-month.html

Stealing CPU and GPU cycles from other people: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-malware-that-uses-your-gpu-to-mine-bitcoins/

Stealing $22 billion of actual cryptocurrency: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilym...-22-billion-worth-of-bitcoin/?sh=68e04f151a60

These arent even isolated incidents and anyone can google for many more examples.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
Multiple sites hosted by different ISPs, by different cloud service providers, situated in different countries don't get impacted all at once unless it's a concerted effort

Ah huh. Meanwhile during the current price dip, all the exchanges are still online. Go take your garbage conspiracy crap elsewhere.
 
Reactions: Leeea

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Ah huh. Meanwhile during the current price dip, all the exchanges are still online. Go take your garbage conspiracy crap elsewhere.

The last time a big price correction like this happened, a lot of the crypto trading sites like Coinbase crashed under the load. This correction seems to be more orderly... which makes me wonder if we haven't seen the worst of it yet.

That said, something tells me that people like the Winklevoss Twins wouldn't have much trouble selling their Bitcoin if they really wanted to during these outages. Owning an exchange has it's perks
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,419
10,095
126
Good. Make it all illegal.
You KNOW, that if they make crypto illegal (in the USA), then of course, they will also regulate PCs WRT gaming, say, new laws limiting you to three hours of gaming per night, per person per household. Because environment and global warming. I can see them doing that, along with phasing out ICE engines, at around the same time.

Edit: Be careful what you wish for. *wink*

Edit: Don't think it can't happen, they did ban incandescent light bulbs for sale in the USA.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,054
136
The last time a big price correction like this happened, a lot of the crypto trading sites like Coinbase crashed under the load. This correction seems to be more orderly... which makes me wonder if we haven't seen the worst of it yet.

It could last for months, or even a year. Time to make some money!
 

bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
38,928
12,005
146
You KNOW, that if they make crypto illegal (in the USA), then of course, they will also regulate PCs WRT gaming, say, new laws limiting you to three hours of gaming per night, per person per household. Because environment and global warming. I can see them doing that, along with phasing out ICE engines, at around the same time.

Edit: Be careful what you wish for. *wink*
Nice try. Not the same thing. Hopefully, they'll build more prisons to house the miners. *wink*
 
Reactions: Leeea

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,961
6,312
136
Gaming is as much a waste as mining? Someone ban this guy....
No seriously though gaming has been a hobby and provided tons of entertainment for lots of people.

The point is that anyone who might argue that mining is somehow a waste of GPUs would have a difficult time justifying gaming. If someone's hobby is using GPUs for mining, folding, etc. it's no different. I like gaming as well and it's what I want to do with my time and my money. I just think I'd have a much more difficult justifying my own hobbies if I took the position that other people should have their own banned.

As someone with Autism my gaming time de-stresses me like nothing else can, hardly a "waste" and approved by my therapist.

Suppose someone found mining and associated activities stress relieving or even just an enjoyable activity. Should their hobby or therapeutic activity be looked at any differently?

Yeah, we're not gonna reach any common ground on this, I can already tell.

That's perfectly fine. The notion that any discussion on the internet has to somehow end with one person changing their mind isn't terribly realistic. Just the mere fact that we might understand each other's viewpoints a little better is worthwhile enough.

So I actually googled it real quick. One study puts global PC gaming power draw at about one terawatt hour each year. That's a lot of power, yeah.
...But bitcoin alone takes well over one hundred terawatt hours a year. For seven transactions a second, theoretical maximum. And all on single-purpose ASICs that'll be ewaste immediately. At least PCs can be re-used.

Like I said, the both use some amount of power. You consider one acceptable but the other not to be. So if Bitcoin used only as much power as gaming then it would be perfectly fine? Hence the punchline to the old joke. What's the acceptable amount of power use for something to judge whether or not it should be banned?

Maybe some think the argument is ridiculous and would never come to bite them in the butt, and yet there were stories like this being thrown around this past year: https://nichegamer.com/high-end-gam...gy-bill-limits-sales-on-high-performance-pcs/.

So, first off, I don't think I've called for it to be banned. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as this thread's been going on for a long time and I may have misspoken.

You probably didn't and I apologize if you feel as though I put words in your mouth. There have been plenty of other posters in this thread that have said as much and my reply is to that line of thought as opposed to you specifically.

Crypto's not a genie, it's a fart in a bottle. We're nearing a decade and a half in and we're still debating the uses for it. The few that ever crop up are either super niche (dodging sanctions) or only exist for a blink of an eye before they fall apart.

Maybe it's that revolutionary.
Or maybe it's just a turd. Evidence points towards turd.

I'm sure the same kind of arguments were made about any new technology or idea by someone. Television, rock and roll, video games etc. have all been seen as devils, destructive, or something that ought to be banned. It's entirely possible that in another thirty years none of the currently existing digital currencies are widely popular or even still around, but I don't see the idea itself going away. I highly doubt it will replace existing institutions and systems as some crypto evangelists believe, but that doesn't mean it's useless either.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
Like I said, the both use some amount of power. You consider one acceptable but the other not to be. So if Bitcoin used only as much power as gaming then it would be perfectly fine? Hence the punchline to the old joke. What's the acceptable amount of power use for something to judge whether or not it should be banned?

Maybe some think the argument is ridiculous and would never come to bite them in the butt, and yet there were stories like this being thrown around this past year: https://nichegamer.com/high-end-gam...gy-bill-limits-sales-on-high-performance-pcs/.
Not sucking down the power of several countries would be a start. It's not even comparable to other payment processors or databases. Again, I'm not calling for it to be banned, I'm saying it's wholly unreasonable and stupid.
Again, gaming is massive (last I heard, 2/3rds of American households) and gaming Pcs do things. They play games, and the hardware doubles for, yknow, being a PC.
Bitcoin sucks ten times as much power all so it can choke on seven transactions a second.

Also, your article is wrong and actually helps my point. The regulations target idle power consumption. It's primarily aimed at office PCs and monitors that sit at idle most of the day, and there's big exceptions for load. Here's a still-somewhat-scaremongering PCWorld article that explains and a JayzTwoCents video if you prefer youtube.
This may surprise you, but I'm in favor of regulations like this. Gaming PCs get more efficient every year, but even with more efficient ASICs, Bitcoin just doesn't scale.

I'm sure the same kind of arguments were made about any new technology or idea by someone. Television, rock and roll, video games etc. have all been seen as devils, destructive, or something that ought to be banned. It's entirely possible that in another thirty years none of the currently existing digital currencies are widely popular or even still around, but I don't see the idea itself going away. I highly doubt it will replace existing institutions and systems as some crypto evangelists believe, but that doesn't mean it's useless either.
Here's the thing, those new techs like television? They were quickly in use. I think it took late 1920s TVs into the 1930s to be commercially available, especially impressive considering how much faster tech is adopted now compared to 100 years ago. Hell, unless I'm mistake lasers were developed as a tech that was developed for the sake of it as opposed to having an immediate use, but was quickly put to use in industry and then within something like fifteen years was being used to scan barcodes in stores.

Crypto? Fifteen years in and people are still reaching for the most niche of use-cases for this massive black hole. Decentralized, trustless and immutable transactions just aren't useful in the real-world.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,285
12,335
136
Suppose someone found mining and associated activities stress relieving or even just an enjoyable activity. Should their hobby or therapeutic activity be looked at any differently?
Not weighing in on one side or the other, but I can attest that mining IS a game. All the ingredients are there, and one can have a LOT of fun deciphering the system, building a strategy and executing on it.

All the ingredients are there:
  • low min system requirements, very high recommended hardware
  • F2P model, start right now on any device you own
  • RPG elements, you're the hero of your own story
  • incredible lore with lots of mistery, espionage and surprising turns of events.
  • excellent immersion, players stay in character 24/7
  • complex skill tree with numerous classes: engineer, programmer, gamer, mathematician, trader, investor, influencer, sucker (beginner)
  • strategy elements, requires excellent knowledge of the game mechanics as well as great use of logic, social manipulation and mastery of numbers
  • nostalgia elements, text based adventure
  • practical elements, develops lots of electrical and software engineering skills
  • social elements, successful actors group up to maximize their win chance, continuously pooling their resources AND experience
  • vicious multiplayer mode, with tons of "maps" to chose from as changing coin/algo can make the difference between today's winner and tomorrow's loser
  • different level exit strategies
  • multiple seasons, many DLC releases
  • captivating endgame on the exchange platforms
If anyone thinks I'm joking... well... I'm not. For many people Mining can be the game of the year.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,743
5,374
136
Crypto? Fifteen years in and people are still reaching for the most niche of use-cases for this massive black hole. Decentralized, trustless and immutable transactions just aren't useful in the real-world.

The endgame is for a crypto (doesn't have to be Bitcoin or Ethereum) to replace the $ as the world's reserve currency... when the rest of the world finally wakes up and realizes that letting the US money printer go bezerk is extremely bad fiscal policy for them.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,670
14,676
136
The endgame is for a crypto (doesn't have to be Bitcoin or Ethereum) to replace the $ as the world's reserve currency... when the rest of the world finally wakes up and realizes that letting the US money printer go bezerk is extremely bad fiscal policy for them.
And having crypto print money instead is better ?
 
Reactions: Mopetar

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
The endgame is for a crypto (doesn't have to be Bitcoin or Ethereum) to replace the $ as the world's reserve currency... when the rest of the world finally wakes up and realizes that letting the US money printer go bezerk is extremely bad fiscal policy for them.
The crypto market dropped 50% from its all-time high in November. Hell, before it's dropped 50% because Musk tweeted something mean.

And you're afraid of the dollar?

An individual crypto might be limited to being deflationary*, but the number of cryptos is not.

*Can be changed with a fork
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,273
2,885
126
The endgame is for a crypto (doesn't have to be Bitcoin or Ethereum) to replace the $ as the world's reserve currency... when the rest of the world finally wakes up and realizes that letting the US money printer go bezerk is extremely bad fiscal policy for them.

Ask the president of El Salvador how it's working out for him.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,743
5,374
136
The crypto market dropped 50% from its all-time high in November. Hell, before it's dropped 50% because Musk tweeted something mean.

And it will go back up once the market realizes the Fed isn't raising rates.

Also I'm talking long term on this. The rest of the world is dumb, it may take them awhile to realize they need to do something.
 
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