The Build vs. Buy Debate

[UNCjigga]

In the last decade, the argument used to be building your own PC was cheaper. Not only did you have a lot more flexibility in choosing the components, but you could also undercut brand name prices by a healthy margin of 20% to 30%.

Does the value argument still hold up? I'm not so sure about that. For the past 5 years we've been able to buy stripped $400 machines from Dell and maybe steal it for $300 after rebates. But these days fully loaded machines can be had for $700 retail ($600 after rebate.) The Wall Street Journal just reviewed an eMachines system with AMD Athlon64 3400+, 1GB RAM, dual optical drives (one a dual-layer DVD writer), 200GB drive and Windows Media Center. Industry consolidation and the 'Dell effect' (manufacturers cutting costs and boosting margins wherever possible) has given the budget PC higher value than the comparable homebuilt system.

Seems like the legions of clone builders in the 90s have either a) given up and bought a Dell or b) moved upmarket into the 'enthusiast' market. I reckon enthusiasts today build machines for one objective alone: performance. Who cares about value anymore? Sure you can upgrade your CPU or choice components on your schedule rather than shell out for a whole new PC every time, but the new Dells and HPs are just as upgradeable. The value argument only holds up when you compare homebuilt vs. Dell XPS or Alienware, but that's about it.

I seriously think my next PC will be a Media Center bought retail.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Well said, but Repost! (there have been a number of similar threads in the last few months)

Anyway,

A lot of people build for incremental upgrades since PC3200, HD, case, opticals, soundcard can often be reused.

A lot of us are picky about parts. Dell or VoodooPC might offer a "dvd burner" but not the Benq or NEC you want. They may have a 7800 card but underclocked or without the quieter or overclocking HSF you want. They might not offer the right soundcard, the case style you want, etc. etc. This all fits the "enthusiast" label though.

 

[Matthias99]

Yes, you can get an OEM-built low-end desktop for either close to or sometimes even less than the price you could build it yourself. However:

1) The OEM system is probably (but not always) using worse-quality parts than you would get on your own. Granted, you can make up for this by buying a 3-year warranty from Dell (or whoever), but that sort of defeats the cost savings.

2) Most OEMs screw you pretty badly on any kind of upgrade. If you want a system with integrated graphics and 256MB of RAM, you can get a good deal, but as soon as you want anything out of the ordinary, it usually makes more sense to build.

3) You don't get a lot of choice with regard to parts. A particular model of generally uses *one* case (which may not be very well-made), *one* motherboard (which probably doesn't have any OCing options, and may be proprietary), *one* power supply (of unknown make and quality), *one* type of RAM (that you can't choose, and may not be the same from system to system), etc. Your choice in things like video cards may be extremely limited (although some OEMs are getting better about this), and the prices are rarely competitive. If they force you to buy a monitor to get a bundle deal, it's usually not that great. With higher-end systems this becomes less of a problem, but see point #4.

4) Prices on anything but low-end machines are (usually) bad. Sometimes crazy sales/combo deals can let you make out like a bandit, but a Dell XPS or Alienware system is rarely if ever going to compete with a home-built gaming rig in terms of bang/buck.

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga
In the last decade, the argument used to be building your own PC was cheaper. Not only did you have a lot more flexibility in choosing the components, but you could also undercut brand name prices by a healthy margin of 20% to 30%.

I thought that was the case when I was building some 80286 and 80386 PC's, about 15 years ago or so, but the growth of the local White Box Store competrition ended that advantage at least 5-6 years back.

Does the value argument still hold up? I'm not so sure about that. For the past 5 years we've been able to buy stripped $400 machines from Dell and maybe steal it for $300 after rebates. But these days fully loaded machines can be had for $700 retail ($600 after rebate.) The Wall Street Journal just reviewed an eMachines system with AMD Athlon64 3400+, 1GB RAM, dual optical drives (one a dual-layer DVD writer), 200GB drive and Windows Media Center. Industry consolidation and the 'Dell effect' (manufacturers cutting costs and boosting margins wherever possible) has given the budget PC higher value than the comparable homebuilt system.

Personally, had my retirement not been quite so abrupt and discomforting, I might not have gotten back into assembling systems again. I feel sure that I could shop better bargain costs in ready to use systems than those I've had through my own assembly line. But I've had fun, my relatives have repaid my hardware costs for new machines they participated in selecting parts for, etc. We get to have exactly what we want this way, with a lot fewer compromises.

Seems like the legions of clone builders in the 90s have either a) given up and bought a Dell or b) moved upmarket into the 'enthusiast' market. I reckon enthusiasts today build machines for one objective alone: performance. Who cares about value anymore? Sure you can upgrade your CPU or choice components on your schedule rather than shell out for a whole new PC every time, but the new Dells and HPs are just as upgradeable.

Disagree about a Dell, certainly.

The value argument only holds up when you compare homebuilt vs. Dell XPS or Alienware, but that's about it.

I seriously think my next PC will be a Media Center bought retail.

Go for it!

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

I rather build, buying is too much of a hassle in the future when trying to upgrade them. They put too much garbage on the pc, cases are always fugly etc.

 

[ecosvaldo]

The only advantage I see buying a prebuilt one is that every component in that computer is covered under warranty by Dell, Alienware, or whoever.

 

[Continuity28]

There's factors to keep in mind.

You can still use the value argument for building your own PC over buying a PC from Dell, but the value isn't clearly seen. The Dell's PC might be cheaper, but the parts aren't as high of quality as you will buy when you make your own. Many pre-built machines save on costs in all the worst places, like in the power supply, case, motherboard, and video card. So yes Dells are cheaper, but if you made your own PC out of equally low quality parts, the prices would come closer.

I'd rather spend a little more for a power supply that won't die on me, or for a case that has good airflow and ease of use.

 

[Deinonych]

For me, it's not so much a question of quality as it is freedom of choice. If I build my own, I can choose what goes into it. I don't have to make limited choices based upon a PC vendors volume purchase agreements.

The flip side of this is that many people don't know much about PCs and are better off with a pre-built config. Plus, most pre-built configs come with a service contract in case something goes wrong. I personally would never build a custom PC for a family member, since I would end up getting the "support" calls.

 

[coomar]

its cheaper to build a gaming rig than buy one, cheaper to buy pre-built for surfing/ office work

 

[munchow2]

Originally posted by: coomar
its cheaper to build a gaming rig than buy one, cheaper to buy pre-built for surfing/ office work

/agree

If you don't care that you will be getting a poor PSU and a no-name mobo (well maybe it is from Intel) then go for dell/whatever.

Most people who want a bit of gaming will find that building your own is much cheaper because each gmaing rig has its own needs/minimum requirements to operate well enough.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

Originally posted by: munchow2

Originally posted by: coomar
its cheaper to build a gaming rig than buy one, cheaper to buy pre-built for surfing/ office work

/agree

If you don't care that you will be getting a poor PSU and a no-name mobo (well maybe it is from Intel) then go for dell/whatever.

Most people who want a bit of gaming will find that building your own is much cheaper because each gmaing rig has its own needs/minimum requirements to operate well enough.

actually, compaq uses asus mobos. Dell uses intel mobo. I think emachines intel computers also use intel mobos. PSUs tend to be wierd brands, but they ARE reliable; OEMs are not stupid they wont let their PSU just die on you. It bothers me when people say OEMs are lower quality. Sure, the case doesnt look as cool, and sometimes they're harder to work in, but overall, the quality is not bad (as long as you dont go too crazy with upgrades).

 

[n7]

I'm not sure about in teh USA, but in Canaduh, at least Western Canada anyway, it is usually cheaper to buy than to build.

However, your upgrading options when buying are not as good, the parts used when buying aren't as good, & there's no way to overclock or upgrade much unless you spend more to get a better PC that has a more upgradeable mobo, etc.

Really, not many people build because it's cheaper; they build because they enjoy doing it themselves, & they enjoy knowing every single part in their rig
Okay, so that's me, but i'm sure others are the same way

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch

Originally posted by: munchow2

Originally posted by: coomar
its cheaper to build a gaming rig than buy one, cheaper to buy pre-built for surfing/ office work

/agree

If you don't care that you will be getting a poor PSU and a no-name mobo (well maybe it is from Intel) then go for dell/whatever.

Most people who want a bit of gaming will find that building your own is much cheaper because each gmaing rig has its own needs/minimum requirements to operate well enough.

actually, compaq uses asus mobos. Dell uses intel mobo. I think emachines intel computers also use intel mobos. PSUs tend to be wierd brands, but they ARE reliable; OEMs are not stupid they wont let their PSU just die on you. It bothers me when people say OEMs are lower quality. Sure, the case doesnt look as cool, and sometimes they're harder to work in, but overall, the quality is not bad (as long as you dont go too crazy with upgrades).

Ah but see, I have first hand experience. I worked for a company that used only Dell computers, and there's something you begin to realize... The power supplies often failed, we only had like 200 or so employees, and over the course of a year we needed to send back about 50 Dells... mostly power supply issues. Also, you start to see that their motherboards are not defacto Intel brand, they are changed for Dell's purposes, so most fixes are specific to Dell, and Intel's fixes don't work sometimes. Plenty of Dell motherboards failed on us, and as a home user I've never had a problem with pure Intel motherboards... so again, I think Dell skimps when they take Intel's design and develops their own boards...

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Yes, you can get an OEM-built low-end desktop for either close to or sometimes even less than the price you could build it yourself. However:

1) The OEM system is probably (but not always) using worse-quality parts than you would get on your own. Granted, you can make up for this by buying a 3-year warranty from Dell (or whoever), but that sort of defeats the cost savings.

2) Most OEMs screw you pretty badly on any kind of upgrade. If you want a system with integrated graphics and 256MB of RAM, you can get a good deal, but as soon as you want anything out of the ordinary, it usually makes more sense to build.

3) You don't get a lot of choice with regard to parts. A particular model of generally uses *one* case (which may not be very well-made), *one* motherboard (which probably doesn't have any OCing options, and may be proprietary), *one* power supply (of unknown make and quality), *one* type of RAM (that you can't choose, and may not be the same from system to system), etc. Your choice in things like video cards may be extremely limited (although some OEMs are getting better about this), and the prices are rarely competitive. If they force you to buy a monitor to get a bundle deal, it's usually not that great. With higher-end systems this becomes less of a problem, but see point #4.

4) Prices on anything but low-end machines are (usually) bad. Sometimes crazy sales/combo deals can let you make out like a bandit, but a Dell XPS or Alienware system is rarely if ever going to compete with a home-built gaming rig in terms of bang/buck.

 

[Sforsyth]

yeah a guy brought me his older Dell pc what a POS it had XP on it 1Ghz Celeron 128 MB of Ram no AGP port.

A buddy of mine bought one 2.4 Celeron Dell, and it doesn't have an AGP port iether, and he's always asking me what games he can and can't play, and what it would take to play them.

 

[munchow2]

To unfalliblekrutch:
You must understand that they (COmpaq/Dell et al.) tend to cut a lot of corners and that this effect grows seemingly exponentially as you move up into the higher echelons of gaming-ready hardware to the point where you are paying a lot more money to dell/compaq/whatever than you would have if you had just built a gaming rig yourself. Wow that was a somewhat long sentence. Nevertheless, a GOOD gaming machine is cheaper if you build it yourself to suit your own needs. I guess what I am trying to get at is that yes if you purchased the exact same parts that they sell you, then it would be cheaper buying from them. However, each user has his/her own needs and by doing the computer specs him/herself, he/she would be able to optimize performance/cost unique to the individual, which is close to impossible on a pre-assembled machine.

As a side note, I have no doubt that OEMs will suffice and work for the average user or even below average-average gamer. I am not sure anyone said OEMs were bad... I'd actually prefer OEMs since they are cheaper actually

PSS: I stand by my conviction that the 2 areas Dell/compaq whatever skimp out on the most are mobos and PSUs. I can't stand bad mobos coz they gimp your whole computer.

 

[Farmer]

I guess I've gotten used to building. There's just something missing from buying a computer from the store.

 

[nino]

Buy! I've built for 10yrs but I can't see doing it anymore. Not when OD was dumping Emachines D-6405 systems for $300 AR w/15" LCDs. That's a 3000+ A64 system w/512MB of RAM and a DVD burner. It would have cost me TWICE that to build. It had SATA headers, front Firewire ports, USB ports, sound ports, media reader and built on a FIC K8M800 mobo (with AGP) with everything onboard too. No way could I touch that price.

Upgrade-shmupgrade. Use it for 2 yrs and dump it. Shoot, it was $300 w/software and a 15" LCD.

Nope, my days of building are over. And yes, the deal is long gone. IMHO, Dell is killin themselves by not offering AMD systems. It's HP, Compaq, Emachines and Gateway for me.

 

[bozack]

If I just needed a box for net surfing and word I would be hard pressed to build a system when one considers the deals out there on new PCs from OEMs...however seeing as I use mine for more than just net surfing and the options available by many OEMs that cater to my needs are limited IMHO and overpriced it looks like a building I will be...has low price computers impacted system builders..sure, has it pushed the market more towards enthusiasts...sure...is this bad for consumers?? I would say no as they still get good computers at low costs..is it bad for retaillers? I would again say no as now instead of catering to joe blow consumer they have adjusted and are selling more neon kits and fancy cases...

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: nino
Buy! I've built for 10yrs but I can't see doing it anymore. Not when OD was dumping Emachines D-6405 systems for $300 AR w/15" LCDs. That's a 3000+ A64 system w/512MB of RAM and a DVD burner. It would have cost me TWICE that to build. It had SATA headers, front Firewire ports, USB ports, sound ports, media reader and built on a FIC K8M800 mobo (with AGP) with everything onboard too. No way could I touch that price.

Upgrade-shmupgrade. Use it for 2 yrs and dump it. Shoot, it was $300 w/software and a 15" LCD.

Nope, my days of building are over. And yes, the deal is long gone. IMHO, Dell is killin themselves by not offering AMD systems. It's HP, Compaq, Emachines and Gateway for me.

The big factor in all this is the absolute crappy motherboard they throw into these things. They are the biggest POS ever.

1. Bad motherboards
2. generic ram
3. locked bios
4. no upgrade path
5. no windows xp cd
6. defective hard drives

The usual problems occur:

1. freezing
2. random reboots
3. can't play games
4. bad video playback
5. crashes
6. Loss of data


It's a great deal until it breaks and then your pissed.

 

[Pabster]

Well what do you expect for a VIA chipset-based mainboard? They suck.

And for the record, Dell uses Foxconn boards (with Intel chipsets, of course )

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Well what do you expect for a VIA chipset-based mainboard? They suck.

And for the record, Dell uses Foxconn boards (with Intel chipsets, of course )

just came off of a via based system with little to no problems, no more or less than I had on previous intel chipset based systems.

 

[xiaobao12]

hello all,

i just want to say that i've been using my dell for about 2 years now and i've had no troubles with it. when i bought it, i was thinking the exact same things - poor parts, won't last me long, etc. - but suprisingly, it can run half life 2 and most games at an acceptable level and has survived a few upgrades (ram, sound card, waiting for vid card (pending x800 xt plat deal from ati), optical drives)

did i just get lucky or should i expect my system to fail soon?

thanks.

 

[shoRunner]

well as stated in previous discussings it generally is generally cheaper to buy @ the under $500-600 dollar price mark. As you get above that range then the better value becomes to build your own.

The emachine in question is really a great deal, it has a msi mobo using the ati radeon xpress chipset, really the only problem is lack of a psu powerful enought to power a high end graphics solution and the fact the bios is locked on most options.

Originally posted by: xiaobao12
did i just get lucky or should i expect my system to fail soon?

OEM systems will have pretty good reliability, because if they didn't it'd cost them more in the long run because they'd have to fix their systems under warranty.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: xiaobao12
hello all,

i just want to say that i've been using my dell for about 2 years now and i've had no troubles with it. when i bought it, i was thinking the exact same things - poor parts, won't last me long, etc. - but suprisingly, it can run half life 2 and most games at an acceptable level and has survived a few upgrades (ram, sound card, waiting for vid card (pending x800 xt plat deal from ati), optical drives)

did i just get lucky or should i expect my system to fail soon?

thanks.

I am just like you bought a dell in August of 03 and now I'm ready to kick this baby to the curb with a system built by me, it has survived fairly well, I'm actually shocked I haven't murdered the power supply on this thing, considering I 'upgraded' it with a 6800GT, new sound card, another hard drive, on top of the two optical drives it already came with plus mobo and proc, however I know that with a new AMD system that I'm gearing up to buy(need one more paycheck!) will smoke the crap out of this dell in terms of upgradability and such.