The demise of the dollar

[Patranus]

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning ? along with China, Russia, Japan and France ? to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

http://www.independent.co.uk/n...he-dollar-1798175.html

The middle east screwed the economy up by raising oil prices. I can wait to see what this does to the dollar.

 

[JSt0rm]

who the hell is Wold and where did he put these dumped dollars?

 

[nullzero]

The demise of the dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading

By Robert Fisk

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning ? along with China, Russia, Japan and France ? to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place ? although they have not discovered the details ? are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil ? yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq ? blocked by the US until this year ? and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements ? the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system ? America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.

http://www.independent.co.uk/n...he-dollar-1798175.html

I like to see what others think of this? If this turns out to be 100% true then this can have a HUGE impact on the world and the way we live in the U.S.

 

[JS80]

I'm curious how much premium is priced in to the dollar for it being the currency traded for oil. My guess would be that it's very low.

 

[JS80]

Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Outside of the yen, the listed monies are pretty much lol.

 

[miketheidiot]

i think its probably slightly blown out of proportion, and any basket of currencies without at least a majority of the dollar, euro, pound and yen is doomed to fail


also lol gold, that makes about as much sense as denominating oil in oil, that way we can do derivatives when we calculate exchange rates too.

 

[LegendKiller]

First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol. What's hilarious about this is that they are looking to tie a currency to a commodity that is going the way of the dodo bird in the next 30 years, it's going to take a 1/3 of the time to actually implement the fucking thing. Then they are planning to do it with countries, some of which are quickly running out of oil. Then to do it with Russia? Are you kidding me? Russia can't even have a positive population growth and are in decline. France? LOL, the Frogs can't even get their lazy asses off to get unemployment below 10% in the good times, let alone run a currency.

This is like an episode of the 3 stooges.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

Something which you toolboys have yet to realize, the government is the people. We can, and do, vote in and out. We do pay our taxes, which funds the government.

What's this shit going to be based off of? Ohh yeah, former tribal nomads who live so ridiculously lop-sided that once their oil hegemony dies, their population will kill them (since they've repressed the population brutally for generations while maintaining uber-wealth at the top), a south american country that's barely coming out of its funk, a oligarchy controlled country with no democratic process, a rotting military, and a declining population, a communist country which can't even get 10% of its country out of poverty yet will extent trillions in loans to try and get a consumerist economy going (you know, the thing people like you hate). Let's not forget the Frogs, who have a shit GDP per capita ratio, massive unemployment, and are the laziest sacks of shit in Europe.

Really, grow a fucking pair of brain cells to replace that worn out one you have and realize this is the most idiotic scheme on the planet. I think it's bullshit, mainly because the last thing these guys want to do is kill the golden goose, we're the only reason why the ME and China are in the 19th century and we'll continue to be the only reason why for generations.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

Something which you toolboys have yet to realize, the government is the people. We can, and do, vote in and out. We do pay our taxes, which funds the government.

What's this shit going to be based off of? Ohh yeah, former tribal nomads who live so ridiculously lop-sided that once their oil hegemony dies, their population will kill them (since they've repressed the population brutally for generations while maintaining uber-wealth at the top), a south american country that's barely coming out of its funk, a oligarchy controlled country with no democratic process, a rotting military, and a declining population, a communist country which can't even get 10% of its country out of poverty yet will extent trillions in loans to try and get a consumerist economy going (you know, the thing people like you hate). Let's not forget the Frogs, who have a shit GDP per capita ratio, massive unemployment, and are the laziest sacks of shit in Europe.

Really, grow a fucking pair of brain cells to replace that worn out one you have and realize this is the most idiotic scheme on the planet. I think it's bullshit, mainly because the last thing these guys want to do is kill the golden goose, we're the only reason why the ME and China are in the 19th century and we'll continue to be the only reason why for generations.

i did lol at the chinese economist bragging about the legendarily stable currency THE ROOBLE being included in the bundle, as if it were something to give credence to the enterprise.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

Something which you toolboys have yet to realize, the government is the people. We can, and do, vote in and out. We do pay our taxes, which funds the government.

What's this shit going to be based off of? Ohh yeah, former tribal nomads who live so ridiculously lop-sided that once their oil hegemony dies, their population will kill them (since they've repressed the population brutally for generations while maintaining uber-wealth at the top), a south american country that's barely coming out of its funk, a oligarchy controlled country with no democratic process, a rotting military, and a declining population, a communist country which can't even get 10% of its country out of poverty yet will extent trillions in loans to try and get a consumerist economy going (you know, the thing people like you hate). Let's not forget the Frogs, who have a shit GDP per capita ratio, massive unemployment, and are the laziest sacks of shit in Europe.

Really, grow a fucking pair of brain cells to replace that worn out one you have and realize this is the most idiotic scheme on the planet. I think it's bullshit, mainly because the last thing these guys want to do is kill the golden goose, we're the only reason why the ME and China are in the 19th century and we'll continue to be the only reason why for generations.

Looks like the taxpayers are in dire conditions as well...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/3...postversion=2009093012

Anyway you slice it the U.S. is going down the tubes, its mainly because of clowns that believe everything is ok and live in the clouds.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

Something which you toolboys have yet to realize, the government is the people. We can, and do, vote in and out. We do pay our taxes, which funds the government.

What's this shit going to be based off of? Ohh yeah, former tribal nomads who live so ridiculously lop-sided that once their oil hegemony dies, their population will kill them (since they've repressed the population brutally for generations while maintaining uber-wealth at the top), a south american country that's barely coming out of its funk, a oligarchy controlled country with no democratic process, a rotting military, and a declining population, a communist country which can't even get 10% of its country out of poverty yet will extent trillions in loans to try and get a consumerist economy going (you know, the thing people like you hate). Let's not forget the Frogs, who have a shit GDP per capita ratio, massive unemployment, and are the laziest sacks of shit in Europe.

Really, grow a fucking pair of brain cells to replace that worn out one you have and realize this is the most idiotic scheme on the planet. I think it's bullshit, mainly because the last thing these guys want to do is kill the golden goose, we're the only reason why the ME and China are in the 19th century and we'll continue to be the only reason why for generations.

Looks like the taxpayers are in dire conditions as well...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/3...postversion=2009093012

Anyway you slice it the U.S. is going down the tubes, its mainly because of clowns that believe everything is ok and live in the clouds.

That's got nothing to do with taxpayers being in "dire straights", that's nothing more than an increasingly progressive nature of taxation, not something that's changed dramatically in the last several years, especially considering historical high taxation rates in progressive nature.

Yet again you fail. No matter how *YOU* slice it, we are having problems because fools like you can't even analyze something so easy as taxation.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol. What's hilarious about this is that they are looking to tie a currency to a commodity that is going the way of the dodo bird in the next 30 years, it's going to take a 1/3 of the time to actually implement the fucking thing. Then they are planning to do it with countries, some of which are quickly running out of oil. Then to do it with Russia? Are you kidding me? Russia can't even have a positive population growth and are in decline. France? LOL, the Frogs can't even get their lazy asses off to get unemployment below 10% in the good times, let alone run a currency.

This is like an episode of the 3 stooges.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

x100

It's actually perplexing that the oil countries would even do this. I really can't even think of a good reason - not even a political reason.

 

[manowar821]

That's pretty cool.

 

[First]

lmao.

 

[BarrySotero]

The other countries know Obama is going to ruin the economy and bring back inflation to rob people of their savings and to pay off foreign debt. They also know Obama won't fight against this since he's more anti-American than most of them are and wants US weak and subject to international bodies and laws. Obama's presidency is absolutely lethal.

""The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." V. Lenin

 

[dmcowen674]

Oil will cost America $700 U.S. dollar a barrel

 

[dahunan]

it should be true and we deserve every bit of it

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The other countries know Obama is going to ruin the economy and bring back inflation to rob people of their savings and to pay off foreign debt. They also know Obama won't fight against this since he's more anti-American than most of them are and wants US weak and subject to international bodies and laws. Obama's presidency is absolutely lethal.

""The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." V. Lenin

How is it weak to be the largest cooperative player on the world stage (and thereby VOLUNTARILY subject to international bodies and laws)?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
First off, conspiracy among BRIC countries = lol.

This does absolutely nothing at all. Oil can be bought and sold in any currency on the planet due to exchange rates and forward/futures contracts. Furthermore, oil isn't a store of wealth, but a usable and tradable commodity. It might marginally slow the velocity of the dollar, but the actual value of the dollar is in the US government, not oil.

If its mostly based on the U.S. government we are screwed then .

no we are not!! You are a tool plain and simple!!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The other countries know Obama is going to ruin the economy and bring back inflation to rob people of their savings and to pay off foreign debt. They also know Obama won't fight against this since he's more anti-American than most of them are and wants US weak and subject to international bodies and laws. Obama's presidency is absolutely lethal.

""The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." V. Lenin

The economy was ruined before Obama got in office, it's starting to come back, if you haven't noticed.

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oil will cost America $700 U.S. dollar a barrel

and you're so good with predictions. :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oil will cost America $700 U.S. dollar a barrel

and you're so good with predictions. :roll:

Yes I am, what have you done lately?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oil will cost America $700 U.S. dollar a barrel

you heard it here first folks

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Oil will cost America $700 U.S. dollar a barrel

and you're so good with predictions. :roll:

Yes I am, what have you done lately?

not made jackass predictions i cant backup on internet forums and then laughed at by every member when you fail.