The Intel Atom Thread

[Sweepr]

Intel NUC DN2820FYKH Bay Trail System Review

Legit Bottom Line: The Intel NUC DN2820FYKH is a budget friendly desktop PC that could make for a great HTPC or stream box depending on your video library. Right now it is best to run Windows 8 or 8.1 on the DN2820FYKH due to fact that Intel has not released Windows 7 drivers for this platform yet.

www.legitreviews.com/intel-nuc-dn2820fykh-bay-trail-system-review_135053

 

[AtenRa]

A Celeron G1820 is both faster in CPU and iGPU and cheaper than that. You can get a mini-itx H81 + Celeron G1820 for less than that NUC.

 

[Sweepr]

A Celeron G1820 is both faster in CPU and iGPU and cheaper than that. You can get a mini-itx H81 + Celeron G1820 for less than that NUC.

Indeed, those Haswell Celerons offer amazing performance/$, don't they?
And then there's Bay Trail for those looking for the lowest possible power consumption (passive cooling possible in some cases - a mere 10W TDP) on the cheap. Good low-end line-up this year IMHO.

 

[SPBHM]

the power usage numbers are nice but, yes, this thing is so slow compared to the g1820... better keep Bay Trail on tablets, when you can afford the extra heat/power, it's just poor cost saving

 

[jpiniero]

A Celeron G1820 is both faster in CPU and iGPU and cheaper than that. You can get a mini-itx H81 + Celeron G1820 for less than that NUC.

I think the price of the NUC is too high, but you are comparing a 53W processor with a 10W one.

 

[cbn]

A Celeron G1820 is both faster in CPU and iGPU and cheaper than that. You can get a mini-itx H81 + Celeron G1820 for less than that NUC.

http://www.amazon.com/CELERON-G1820-.../dp/B00HCM8QQE (Celeron G1820, $51.63 with free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130735 (MSI H81I LGA 1150 Mini0ITX, $59.99 plus $5.39 shipping) <---The cheapest H81 Mini-ITX currently on Newegg

Total : $117.01

The case, psu and wifi card still need to be added to the above LGA1150 Mini-ITX combo<----Those items will definitely push the total cost greater then the Bay Trail NUC.

With that mentioned, I still think the Bay Trail NUC should be priced cheaper than the current $139 price tag.

 

[cbn]

the power usage numbers are nice but, yes, this thing is so slow compared to the g1820... better keep Bay Trail on tablets, when you can afford the extra heat/power, it's just poor cost saving

For a NAS, I don't think I would mind the slow speed.

.....but the one thing that disappoints me is the lack of SATA ports on all the consumer Bay Trail Mini-ITX that have been paper launched so far.

Two SATA ports? (At least they all have a PCI-E x1 slot that can be used to add in a SATA controller board.)

 

[cbn]

Deleted.

 

[North01]

The ASUS VivoTab Note 8 [M80T] (32GB) is now on sale for $329 USD at the Microsoft Store.

 

[AtenRa]

http://www.amazon.com/CELERON-G1820-.../dp/B00HCM8QQE (Celeron G1820, $51.63 with free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130735 (MSI H81I LGA 1150 Mini0ITX, $59.99 plus $5.39 shipping) <---The cheapest H81 Mini-ITX currently on Newegg

Total : $117.01

The case, psu and wifi card still need to be added to the above LGA1150 Mini-ITX combo<----Those items will definitely push the total cost greater then the Bay Trail NUC.

With that mentioned, I still think the Bay Trail NUC should be priced cheaper than the current $139 price tag.

Yes my bad, G1820 will be more expensive than $139. I wasn't counting the case.

http://www.amazon.com/CELERON-G1820-.../dp/B00HCM8QQE (Celeron G1820, $51.63 with free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157451 (ASRock H81M-ITX LGA 1150 Intel H81 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX, $64,99 Special Shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811144254 (APEVIA X-FIT-100 Black Steel Mini-ITX, 250W Power Supply = $49,99 or $34,99 AR , $8.99 shipping)

Total = $175,6 or $160,6 AR

 

[IntelUser2000]

You need to add the WiFi card as well.

That's $140 vs $190. That seems very much justified considering that it can do HD playback fine and you end up with 1/4th the size and 1/3rd the power use(or less).

I can see it as a replacement computer for people who needs nothing more than the most basic functionality and replace their 5+ year old system. The thing is, there's significant amount of the population who would be satisified with the performance to get basic Windows functionality.

I still think the Bay Trail NUC should be priced cheaper than the current $139 price tag.

Nope. The recently released Bay Trail mobo costs $60. The PS and Case probably goes for $50-60, and WiFi, maybe $20-30.

 

[SPBHM]

performance looks to be comparable to a lower priced Dual Core CPU from 2005 (based on the CB result)

but yes, considering power usage and size, it's an interesting device for the money,

 

[cbn]

I can see it as a replacement computer for people who needs nothing more than the most basic functionality and replace their 5+ year old system. The thing is, there's significant amount of the population who would be satisified with the performance to get basic Windows functionality.

For basic Windows functionality, a person can also buy a Bay Trail N2820 Laptop like this one:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1219090455920 (N2820, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Windows 8.1 for $279.99 with free shipping)

I figure that is around $50 less than a comparably equipped Bay Trail NUC which also has a N2820 processor in it....and I bet this price gap increases over time as the Bay Trail laptops begin to drop in price.

Nope. The recently released Bay Trail mobo costs $60. The PS and Case probably goes for $50-60, and WiFi, maybe $20-30.

Bay Trail Mini-ITX $60
APEX MI-008 with PSU $49.24 with free shipping--> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001H0BA24/...xtension-kb-20
Intel 7260 BN Wifi card (the same one found in NUC) $14.99 free shipping--> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833106191

Total: $124.23

That is only about $15 less than the NUC, but the Mini-ITX has the advantage of having much better connectivity and expansion potential. (Not to mention the ability to use 3.5" HDD which is about half the price of 2.5" HDD at the 2TB level.)

 

[witeken]

An interesting interview with Intel's CFO Stacy Smith, about various topics but mainly mobile: Intel CFO Smith Defends Tablet Chip Economics; ‘There’ll Be Just Two Vendors Left’ at Some Point

Rather, rebates, in the form of “contra revenue,” and one-time engineering fees, called “NRE,” are meant to reduce the “total bill of materials,” which includes the higher cost of things such as DRAM and other circuitry that must go along with Intel's tablet chips.

The chips themselves will maintain “competitive prices” compared to offerings from other vendors, he insists, without Intel having to sacrifice gross margin, even for tablets whose retail price is $199 or lower. “Across all tablet segments” is Intel's rallying cry.

 

[Roland00Address]

The whole point of contra revenue with tablets is not about lowering the asop of Intel tablets chips, it is instead creating a universal platform so no mater the price point or form factor you go with an Intel chip. Intel contra revenue means standarized ram, motherboards, networking, etc. Think of contra revenue as start up funding to create reference designs for tablets. It is the same end result in effect just different accounting tricks to achieve the same effect.

Intel does this, nvidia has the tegra note white box. Intel can effect with their contra financing do more "psuedo reference"platforms for its cash on hand and higher revenue allow them to do things nvidia and other arm vendors can not. Nvidia can only do one design and hope OEMS and customers will buy it.

 

[IntelUser2000]

For basic Windows functionality, a person can also buy a Bay Trail N2820 Laptop like this one:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1219090455920 (N2820, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Windows 8.1 for $279.99 with free shipping)

Yea... and some people don't want a laptop at all and want cheap, AIO like size Desktop and Tablet/Smartphone for everything else. There's a reason why the most displaced Laptop segments are the <$300 ones.

That is only about $15 less than the NUC, but the Mini-ITX has the advantage of having much better connectivity and expansion potential. (Not to mention the ability to use 3.5" HDD which is about half the price of 2.5" HDD at the 2TB level.)

Connectivity and expansion is not an advantage for lots of people.

 

[artemicion]

Intel NUC DN2820FYKH Bay Trail System Review

www.legitreviews.com/intel-nuc-dn2820fykh-bay-trail-system-review_135053

Out of curiosity, what's the infrared port that comes on the NUC used for? I'm not really familiar with infrared remotes--does any infrared remote work with it? Is there some kind of pairing that has to happen?

 

[cbn]

Connectivity and expansion is not an advantage for lots of people.

I agree, but NUC should be cheaper.

Example: In the ARM ecosystem, moving a given SOC, RAM and storage out of a tablet and into a HDMI stick results in a considerable price drop of around 35% or more. (And this makes sense to me considering the cost adding battery and screen are no longer present.)

....but with "x86 laptop guts" we don't see the same relationship. Remove the cost adding screen, battery and keyboard and the resulting desktop usually ends up costing the same or even more money.

I guess a person could chalk the price increase on the "x86 laptop guts UCFF desktops" to high demand, but I suspect it is rather low volume instead. Not enough of these "laptop guts UCFF desktops" get sold to keep the price on the low side and the value high (re: It is a niche market)

With that pointed out, I'd like to see Intel (or an OEM) come out with some kind of "NU NUC" (Next Unit of NUC ) where the form factor is even smaller and lower common denominator on the desktop. Then actually price it less than an Intel Android 8" Tablet with the equivalent SOC, RAM, storage.

 

[SlimFan]

Example: In the ARM ecosystem, moving a given SOC, RAM and storage out of a tablet and into a HDMI stick results in a considerable price drop of around 35% or more. (And this makes sense to me considering the cost adding battery and screen are no longer present.)

If you compare the NUC to the price of tablets with similar "guts" I think you see the similar relationship. The tablets are ~300, while the NUC is ~130. You can build the NUC out and hit ~200.

On the other hand ... an HDMI stick has a significantly different cost structure. You lose all the expansion, have limited RAM, storage, etc. Some of the cost here is because these devices are somewhat flexible and have faster IO.

That being said, Intel has noted that the platform cost is not where they want it to be. I think that's where some of this cost delta comes into play. I think $60 for the Atom motherboards are much more capable than the $35 Raspberry Pi. This overall cost delta seems to be something Intel is taking seriously, and the comments from the CFO seem to say they'll be competitive by the end of this year.

 

[cbn]

If you compare the NUC to the price of tablets with similar "guts" I think you see the similar relationship. The tablets are ~300, while the NUC is ~130. You can build the NUC out and hit ~200.

Is there a particular tablet you have in mind?

I used a $280 Windows 8.1 laptop because it has the same Bay Trail-M N2820 processor as the NUC.

Add the cheapest 4GB DDR3L RAM ($37.99 FS) and a 500 GB 2.5" drive ($55 FS) to the $139 NUC and now the price is $232. Add the price of Windows 8.1 ($97) and the final price works out to be $329.

That is $49 more for the N2820 NUC compared to the N2820 laptop. (Now granted the NUC's 8.1 Windows is reusable and the laptop's Windows 8.1 is tied to the machine.....but that is still a pretty impressive price difference considering all the additional cost adders the laptop has: LCD screen, battery, optical drive, keyboard, card reader, etc )

On the other hand ... an HDMI stick has a significantly different cost structure. You lose all the expansion, have limited RAM, storage, etc. Some of the cost here is because these devices are somewhat flexible and have faster IO.

Yes, if we were going to compare a hypothetical Intel HDMI Android stick type computer to an Intel Android Tablet I'm thinking the processor most likely would be a Bay trail-T or the upcoming Merrifield. (Both of which are different than the Bay Trail-M found in NUC or the laptop.)

The RAM would also be soldered to the board (rather than SO-DIMM found in the NUC and laptop). Likewise the storage would most likely be some form of eMMC (in contrast to the SATA drive found in both the NUC and laptop.)

 

[SlimFan]

Add the cheapest 4GB DDR3L RAM ($37.99 FS) and a 500 GB 2.5" drive ($55 FS) to the $139 NUC and now the price is $232. Add the price of Windows 8.1 ($97) and the final price works out to be $329.

I have no visibility into OEM pricing for Windows, but if OEMs are paying $97 for Windows 8.1 (including Office) then they're getting screwed and Microsoft has no long term viability.

I think the cheapest Win8 tablet is $249 ... if you buy it at the MSFT store. It retails for $299 (Venue 8 Pro).

 

[Aikouka]

Out of curiosity, what's the infrared port that comes on the NUC used for? I'm not really familiar with infrared remotes--does any infrared remote work with it? Is there some kind of pairing that has to happen?

I believe you can pretty much use it with any WMC remote, and it should work out of the box.

 

[Sweepr]

64-bit Windows 8.1 Bay Trail tablets coming soon

... "The pressure for 64-bit, even in tablets that might not have 4GB of DRAM, is pretty strong because IT organizations want to standardize on 64-bit images and 64-bit apps," said Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst at Insight 64. "And they can't do that with (the current) Bay Trail tablets."

Brookwood added that the "next wave" of Bay Trail tablets will include those that are more targeted at business customers.

"Intel tended to characterize the first generation of (32-bit) Bay Trail tablets as consumer-oriented," he said.

Dell will roll out updated Venue tablets for 64-bit. "Dell will offer 64-bit OS support for its Venue 8 Pro and Venue 11 Pro tablets running Bay Trail (Atom) later this year," a Dell spokesperson told CNET.

... Microsoft also expects 64-bit tablets running on top of Bay Trail. "In the coming months, there will be Windows 8.1 devices running 64 bit on Atom," Microsoft said to CNET in a statement.

And why the long wait for 64-bit Windows on Atom? It's not entirely clear, but Brookwood knows one of the reasons.

"Sixty-four-bit connected standby drivers were prioritized toward the end of the list last year with other things that were going inside Intel and Microsoft. That was the main sticking point," he said.

"A tablet without connected standby has some pretty awful consequences on battery life," he added.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57618743-75/finally-here-come-the-64-bit-windows-8.1-tablets

 

[North01]

64-bit Windows 8.1 Bay Trail tablets coming soon

Great news. Hopefully we'll see a successor to the ThinkPad Tablet 2 in the near future (ThinkPad 10?).

 

[Shivansps]

and i hope some of these will use the 820M too... there is any news about how its connected? im 99% certain its using a x1 pci-e link but im still hoping for a oem to go out of spec and go for 2x, or think if 4x is even possible.