The Intel Atom Thread

[ShintaiDK]

Probably yes. I'm just surprised DELL didn't make any announce about that.


Traditional PC OEM yes. I wonder why MS insists...

Even Nokia didnt want WinRT, until MS bought them.

MS is a stubborn company. Its a rerun of the GM/Ford/Chrysler etc. Telling you what car you want and you better buy it.

Nobody can destroy MS, besides MS itself. And looking on the 2 epic disasters with Windows 8 and 8.1 and the server series. Not to mention the far from well running cloud services and not so popular Office 2013. Its starting to look like the end for MS. SteamOS is launched at the right time, should it have a chance. It will only be for gamers and home entertainment. But in my household. Its still half the Windows licenses there would be out.

Remember, MS only makes money on 2 things. OS and and server/office. Everything else in MS from cloud to consoles loses money. Surface also had a 900M$ loss.

 

[VengenceIsMine]

Even Nokia didnt want WinRT, until MS bought them.

MS is a stubborn company. Its a rerun of the GM/Ford/Chrysler etc. Telling you what car you want and you better buy it.

Nobody can destroy MS, besides MS itself. And looking on the 2 epic disasters with Windows 8 and 8.1 and the server series. Not to mention the far from well running cloud services and not so popular Office 2013. Its starting to look like the end for MS. SteamOS is launched at the right time, should it have a chance. It will only be for gamers and home entertainment. But in my household. Its still half the Windows licenses there would be out.

Remember, MS only makes money on 2 things. OS and and server/office. Everything else in MS from cloud to consoles loses money. Surface also had a 900M$ loss.

So much fail in 1 post. Microsoft has a lot of products that make money. Xbox hasn't lost money for a long time. Hardware other than surface has been profitable for ages. Azure & Dynamics is a massive and fast growing business. You lump Microsoft's massive back office range of products into just 'server' which is a 6 year olds view of the industry. Server fail, really? Growing robustly and eating in VMWare, Oracle & Salesforce. Skype. So they ordered too many Surfaces & Surface pros and took a 900 million write down. So what? It didn't even dent their quarterly earnings.

Nokia has been trying to make Windows devices since 8.0 launch, there have been prototypes leaked as far back as November last year but MS restricted RT and tablet for 8.0 to just their big OEM's for 6 months. Nokia's RT tablet that has leaked everywhere has obviously been in development for a long time, not just the last couple of weeks. For Nokia an RT tablet based on Qualcomm silicon is an easy move, they already have a lot of experience working with Qualcomm, they just need to scale up to an RT Tablet on the same Snapdragon 800 silicon they are releasing their 1520 phablet on. Given how relatively nice Nokia's phones are on the horribly limited WinPhone8 platform, I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia's RT device is nicer +LTE than Surface 2.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So much fail in 1 post. Microsoft has a lot of products that make money. Xbox hasn't lost money for a long time. Hardware other than surface has been profitable for ages. Azure & Dynamics is a massive and fast growing business. You lump Microsoft's massive back office range of products into just 'server' which is a 6 year olds view of the industry. Server fail, really? Growing robustly and eating in VMWare, Oracle & Salesforce. Skype. So they ordered too many Surfaces & Surface pros and took a 900 million write down. So what? It didn't even dent their quarterly earnings.

Nokia has been trying to make Windows devices since 8.0 launch, there have been prototypes leaked as far back as November last year but MS restricted RT and tablet for 8.0 to just their big OEM's for 6 months. Nokia's RT tablet that has leaked everywhere has obviously been in development for a long time, not just the last couple of weeks. For Nokia an RT tablet based on Qualcomm silicon is an easy move, they already have a lot of experience working with Qualcomm, they just need to scale up to an RT Tablet on the same Snapdragon 800 silicon they are releasing their 1520 phablet on. Given how relatively nice Nokia's phones are on the horribly limited WinPhone8 platform, I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia's RT device is nicer +LTE than Surface 2.

Xbox have never been profitable if you calculate all costs. Its not any harder than to lookup MS financial results and see.

And Windows is already on a fast decline.

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

 

[Exophase]

Jaguar has 3.85x scaling, Baytrail has 3.7x scaling in Cinebench. Realize that we are talking about 0.01 and 0.02 points deviation which is quite possibly error.

I agree that scaling looks pretty high (could be lower for other reasons too, like hitting main RAM bandwidth limits) and suggests that the Z3770 was probably running at or at least close to 2.4GHz on all cores. Anand also said that it can stay at 2.4GHz across cores for a while.

On the other hand, we see Geekbench scores that have far worse scaling for Z3770. Furthermore, Z3740 shows even worse scaling. It clearly suggests to me that the cores aren't sustaining max turbo throughout the entirety of this test.

Which makes sense. The CPU is only rated at 1.46GHz base speed, that probably consumes well under 50% of the power consumes at 2.4GHz. That's a pretty huge dynamic range, and it's hard to believe that all of it is available just from what's not used when the GPU is inactive.

The CPU will let it exceed some current level for some amount of time, then it'll regulate to that level. The thing with sustainable turbo is that the levels will be at least a little different from CPU to CPU.

Still, since not a lot of real world stuff wants to really peg 4 threads simultaneously it barely really matters. I'm sure it'll have no problem keeping at 2.4GHz indefinitely if you're not using more than one core heavily. Maybe even two cores. That should cover most use cases.

 

[VengenceIsMine]

Xbox have never been profitable if you calculate all costs. Its not any harder than to lookup MS financial results and see.

And Windows is already on a fast decline.

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years

Seriously? That article is so debunked in it's own comments it's not even funny. The author is an iOS game developer, this is your unbiased source? His #'s don't even include xbox live revenue which is booked in the same group as Azure and cloud which mysteriously isn't even in your other graph either (they are reported separately from server revenue) & they are the fastest growing revenue stream for MS. Obviously Windows client OS has hit a decline due to the rise of the tablet and smartphone but a lot of that was because Intel has shit the bed in mobile/tablet until Bay Trail which somehow everyone mysteriously blames Microsoft for instead of Intel as well as MS's own obvious mistakes & slow response. Will that stop Windows revenue decline? Obviously not but it will slow it somewhat since the new Bay Trail tablets are MUCH better competition to Apple and Android tablets than Clover Trail and there will be significant uptake on the enterprise side since byod absolutely sucks from an enterprise IT standpoint even if consumer uptake remains slow which it probably will. Writing an autopsy for Microsoft and Intel is very premature and particularly doesn't reflect either's massive strength in the enterprise and server markets which Android, Linux and ARM haven't even dented.

 

[Nothingness]

Seriously? That article is so debunked in it's own comments it's not even funny. The author is an iOS game developer, this is your unbiased source?

I had done myself the game revenues sum a few months ago. It's negative or 0 I can't remember exactly. You can verify it yourself, all reports are on MS site.

 

[VengenceIsMine]

I had done myself the game revenues sum a few months ago. It's negative or 0 I can't remember exactly. You can verify it yourself, all reports are on MS site.

Unless you've incorporated the Live subscription #'s call me skeptical but so what? They have already stated that Xbox One will launch revenue neutral from a hardware standpoint which is a vast improvement and that will only get better fast. They have massive brand equity, a steady and growing revenue stream from the Live subscribers and there are a ton of xbox tie ins coming to Win 8.1 and Win 8.1 phone which will help their overall ecosystem. Throw in the fact that the non gaming VM will be the same development target as the 8.1 modern environment & Xbox One is usuable for a ton of things besides gaming (music, video, search, etc) & there is a ton of upside here for MS. & other than standard & tired Wintel hating, what does any of this have to do with Bay Trail performance?

 

[Sweepr]

ASUS Transformer Book T100 Official Product Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYDDrvBKW6Q

 

[ValidUsername]

Why so low screen resolution :/

 

[FwFred]

Why so low screen resolution :/

Pretty simple. $349 with base.

I'd pay more for a better screen, but that resolution isn't awful at11" with clear type.

 

[bullzz]

screen res for a 10inch tablet is good enough. same res as MBA 11 with a smaller screen

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/32651-toshiba-encore-windows-tablet-tips-up-in-europe

looks like toshiba may bring down price of encore to $299

 

[liahos1]

i hope either on the android or w/8.1, an oem comes out with a 10 inch premium model with a high res display and expandable storage. its all i really want and they have my money.

 

[cbn]

SanDisk Announces Optimized iNAND Extreme eMMC for Bay Trail

We've started looking more closely at the embedded storage used in smartphones and tablets, and have mostly come away disappointed. Thankfully there appears to be some progress being made in the space. I remember being relatively impressed with the behavior of the eMMC in Intel's Bay Trail FFRDs at their benchmarking event a week and a half ago. The IO performance wasn't perfect, but it was definitely much better than I had been expecting.

Today SanDisk announced that it will be bringing an optimized version of its iNAND Extreme solution to Bay Trail tablets. Architecturally iNAND Extreme is a combination of NAND and eMMC controller in a single package. The device supports eMMC 4.51 (HS200) and uses SanDisk's own 19nm MLC (2bpc) NAND. Capacities go all the way up to 128GB for a single device, which SanDisk arrives at by stacking 16 x 64Gbit 19nm MLC NAND die.

Sustained performance isn't too shabby. SanDisk promises sequential reads/writes of up to 150/45MBps and 4KB random read/write speeds of up to 4K/800 IOPS. I suspect these numbers are based on the largest configurations, but I would expect similarly good performance even for the 64GB and maybe even 32GB versions. The 4KB random write results are sustained, not peak, and are measured by looking at performance across a 1GB LBA range. In the case of the 128GB drive that test leaves a ton of spare area, which helps explain the relatively good performance compared to what we're used to in the market. I'd love to see true worst case scenario performance for SanDisk's iNAND. The promised sequential read performance is outstanding. We've seen mobile devices break the 100MB/s sequential read barrier, but none have hit 150MB/s yet. Sequential write performance is also pretty good.

The Bay Trail optimizations come via some custom tuning on the firmware. I suspect Intel has its own performance targets and behaviors it wants to encourage on Bay Trail tablets and SanDisk is likely just responding to those requests. You can also find iNAND Extreme on other, non-Intel platforms as well.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7347/sandisk-announces-optimized-inand-extreme-emmc-for-bay-trail

According to this link 800 IOPS works out to 3.125 MB/s.

If it actually works that good in the hands of testers it will be an improvement over the 4K random write scores in the Anandtech Nexus 7 article here.

With all of that out of the way, how does the eMMC solution in the new Nexus 7 stack up? Sequential read performance continues to be quite good for such a small/lower power device. Sequential write speed isn't terrible either. Even random read performance looks solid. It's random write performance that just needs work across the industry. We realistically need to probably be at 10x where we are today in random write performance, perhaps a bit lower if the storage makers can focus on IO consistency/minimum sustained IOPS.

......but even at 3.125 MB/s 4K random write it sounds like eMMC still has a way to go. (although Anand did make the caveat about IO consistency/mininum sustained IOPS.)

 

[cbn]

http://www.sandisk.com/about-sandis...orage-for-tablets-enabled-by-intel-bay-trail/

According to the press release above SanDisk is currently sampling the iNAND Extreme to OEMs.

How soon can we expect this eMMC to show up in Bay Trail tablets?

 

[sontin]

Pretty simple. $349 with base.

I'd pay more for a better screen, but that resolution isn't awful at11" with clear type.

I guess it's more because of Windows. There are rumours that Asus will sell the Transformer with Tegra 4 for $399...

 

[ValidUsername]

I guess it's more because of Windows. There are rumours that Asus will sell the Transformer with Tegra 4 for $399...

I wouldn't be surprised if they do

 

[ShintaiDK]

Another Z3770 BayTrail tablet, this time from Sharp. And with 2560*1600 display:

http://gigazine.net/news/20130930-mebius-pad/

 

[liahos1]

Another Z3770 BayTrail tablet, this time from Sharp. And with 2560*1600 display:

http://gigazine.net/news/20130930-mebius-pad/

this looks really good. id get this one if they sold it here in the states. although would be nice if there was a 2-1 version of this.

 

[Sweepr]

Another Z3770 BayTrail tablet, this time from Sharp. And with 2560*1600 display:

http://gigazine.net/news/20130930-mebius-pad/

The first >1080p Bay Trail-T tablet running Windows 8.1, looks good.

 

[liahos1]

Does anyone want to posit a guess as to how much of a performance improvement can we expect with finalized Android software optimization and (potentially 64bit) android support?

 

[SiliconWars]

Fresh research points to worrying tablet trends

People who are in the market for a cheap 7-incher want exactly that – a cheap tablet. Not a $229 Nexus 7, Tegra Note, Asus MeMO Pad, or god forbid an Intel Windows tablet. They want something at half the price, they are not interested in value added features, gimmicks or top of the line performance – just a nice screen.

Ironically, supermarket chain Tesco seems to have figured it out before the heavyweights - it's a race to the bottom.

 

[erunion]

The Nexus 7 is overpriced...white boxes are the future...
the source could only be fudzilla.

 

[sequoia464]

The first >1080p Bay Trail-T tablet running Windows 8.1, looks good.

And ... it is 16 x 10.

I'm not a fan of the 16x9 tablets(or monitors), this would be perfect for me.

 

[mikk]

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-10/dell-mit-neuen-xps-notebooks-und-venue-tablets/

Dell Venue announced.

 

[liahos1]

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-10/dell-mit-neuen-xps-notebooks-und-venue-tablets/

Dell Venue announced.

this is interesting the venue pro 11 with baytrail is rated at 11 hours of battery life on a 30whr battery.

There is also a fanless Core version rated at 8 hours.

also batteries are swappable