The Intel Atom Thread

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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Nothingness

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Jul 3, 2013
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The ST performance increase in integer when putting AES and other crypto stuff is only about 20%.

OTOH FP got almost 50% better, and memory got 30% better.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Apollo Lake vs Braswell Geekbench Comparison

Highest Pentium N3710 (4C/4T up to 2.56 GHz) Windows x86 Score:
Single-Core Score: 1030
Multi-Core Score: 3541

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/5378070

Highest Pentium N4200 (4C/4T up to 2.4/2.5 GHz) Windows x86 Score:
Single-Core Score: 1418
Multi-Core Score: 4601

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/7251504

Goldmont cores should bring a nice boost to ST performance, great news for budget notebooks.

Is the Goldmont architecture going to show up in cheap tablets? It would be a great boost for that segment, but IMO they are still under-powered for laptops.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
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Is the Goldmont architecture going to show up in cheap tablets? It would be a great boost for that segment, but IMO they are still under-powered for laptops.

But not under-powered for cheap laptops. Although they may be little more than tablets with attached keyboards, the large screens and stiff hinges of cheap laptops give them a better form factor. For us old guys in particular, those of us who need reading glasses, we need a larger screen in a package light enough to carry. Cheap laptops do the trick. Plus, they're cheap.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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But not under-powered for cheap laptops. Although they may be little more than tablets with attached keyboards, the large screens and stiff hinges of cheap laptops give them a better form factor. For us old guys in particular, those of us who need reading glasses, we need a larger screen in a package light enough to carry. Cheap laptops do the trick. Plus, they're cheap.

I still disagree. I am willing to put up with the performance loss in a 7 or 8 inch tablet, because of the portability (easy to put in a backpack, small bag or purse, or even in a pocket sometimes) but not in a full size laptop. I mean, I have an old core 2 duo laptop from 2008 or something like that, and it is still faster than atom. I also have had a couple of the atom tablets, and while they are decent most of the time, at other times, especially loading some web pages, they are painfully slow. Perhaps in a laptop with better cooling and more ram, they would be better, but with "U" processor laptops in the 300 to 350 range, I would gladly pay the extra.
 

dogen1

Senior member
Oct 14, 2014
739
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Apollo Lake vs Braswell Geekbench Comparison

Highest Pentium N3710 (4C/4T up to 2.56 GHz) Windows x86 Score:
Single-Core Score: 1030
Multi-Core Score: 3541



Highest Pentium N4200 (4C/4T up to 2.4/2.5 GHz) Windows x86 Score:
Single-Core Score: 1418
Multi-Core Score: 4601



Goldmont cores should bring a nice boost to ST performance, great news for budget notebooks.

Almost core 2 performance. Not bad for a chip like that.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,287
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The ST performance increase in integer when putting AES and other crypto stuff is only about 20%.

OTOH FP got almost 50% better, and memory got 30% better.


The more interesting comparison is with an N3700 because only 5% of Braswell based Nxxx devices are shipped with an N3710, the other 95% are shipped with N3700.

This is compared to the fastest x86 N3700 result:

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/4289803?baseline=7251504

28% faster Integer Singlethread and 25% faster Integer Multithread if we exclude all the AES and SHA scores. Floating Point Performance is over 50% better on Goldmont. Maybe Intel was more focused on Floating point improvements because the Floating Point IPC disadvantage was much worse compared to be big cores like Skylake.

Compared to the fastest Core m3-6Y30 x86 result which is Skylake based with a comparable TDP: https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/7081276?baseline=7251504

The IPC disadvantage in Floating Point is still higher, but it's much more consistent now between Integer and Floating point.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
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Is the Goldmont architecture going to show up in cheap tablets? It would be a great boost for that segment, but IMO they are still under-powered for laptops.

Probably only larger >10'' tablets and convertibles. I think this boost makes them very capable for the target market.

The more interesting comparison is with an N3700 because only 5% of Braswell based Nxxx devices are shipped with an N3710, the other 95% are shipped with N3700.

True, I was just trying to make an approximate clock-per-clock comparison.

This is compared to the fastest x86 N3700 result:

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/4289803?baseline=7251504

28% faster Integer Singlethread and 25% faster Integer Multithread if we exclude all the AES and SHA scores. Floating Point Performance is over 50% better on Goldmont. Maybe Intel was more focused on Floating point improvements because the Floating Point IPC disadvantage was much worse compared to be big cores like Skylake.

Nice.


How does it compare to Jaguar/Puma?
Not that it matters, actual competitor is Stoney Ridge now.
 
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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Almost core 2 performance. Not bad for a chip like that.

No its faster than core 2 quad performance. A core 2 quad (q6600 at 2.4ghz) gets about 1200 to 1300 in geekbench for the single core vs this pentium apollo lake atom which rumored max clock speed is 2.5 ghz and it is getting in the upper 1300 to low 1400 in geekbench single thread.

Only when you set the baseline of core 2 quad at the 3.0 ghz 12mb cache q9650 or an overclocked 3 to 3.6 ghz q6600 will you see this number as "under" core 2 performance.

Clock for clock it looks like the new apollo lake atom is the same speed if not faster than core 2 quad of the 65nm or 45nm generation. This is a very big deal.

-----

This is great news, for hopefully storage speed whether emmc or ssd or hard drive is loads better than the crappy hard drives we had in 2006. Plus the integrated graphics of these apollo lake atoms are going to be loads better than the integrated graphics of 2006, and even better than most of the graphic cards in 2006 until you spend north of $200 for a graphic card that had a tdp of around 120 to 150watts (still a single 75w 6 pin for additional board power but still getting as close to that 150w as possible).

In other words as long as apollo lake devices are at least 4 cores, at least 2gb of memory (but hopefully windows will move the OEM licensing free cost to 4gbs), and a decent storage the bare minimum hardware sold to run windows or android will have its baseline moved so it will be less sucky for everyone. We can finally now run decent office and decent web apps and video on hardware that is so cheap we call it "crap hardware" or "crap tops."

Put another way this hardware shits all over the 1st gen macbook air (2008), and even is better than the 2nd generation macbook air (2010). It is not until 2011 where we seen the 2nd gen core i series that you will see the macbook airs beating this hardware and even then due to lower clock speeds using turbo to get better clcok speeds and the fact we are talking 2 core / 4 thread devices the 2011 macbook airs will be trading blows with the airs being faster in single thread but slower in multi thread. The 2011 macbook airs are also the same time Intel released its ultrabook spec.

So as long as we get good enough ram and good enough storage we are talking crap laptops that are competing against 2011 ultra portable hardware, or we are talking 2008 to 2009 desktop hardware but now in a 6w tdp and thus you will see lots of 10 to 13 inch computers that are ultraportable but also lots of 14 to 15" cheap laptops.

-----

That said it is still disappointing for in 2011 intel was promising AMD 1100t x6 phenom ii performance with goldmount/ apollo lake. Apollo Lake is simply just not there, but if they had another 30% clock speed and 2 more cores it would be there trading blows with a stock 1100t x6 phenom ii (pretty much the best of the phenom ii generation). Now why did Intel pick the phenom 1100t as a comparison? Well that was the best of AMD at the time.

So did Intel intentionally lie and overpromise and under deliver in their 2011 marketing to investors?

Not neccessarly at the time Intel had far more hopes for its 14nm process than what actually came out years later.

If Intel was targeting a 3.0 to 3.3 ghz ghz clock speed 5 years ago (instead of a 2.5 ghz clock speed) before they knew all of the 14nm characteristics than this number could have been possible and literally on the nose of the similar AMD hardware in Intel's mind.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
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No its faster than core 2 quad performance. A core 2 quad (q6600 at 2.4ghz) gets about 1200 to 1300 in geekbench for the single core vs this pentium apollo lake atom which rumored max clock speed is 2.5 ghz and it is getting in the upper 1300 to low 1400 in geekbench single thread.

Clock for clock it looks like the new apollo lake atom is the same speed if not faster than core 2 quad of the 65nm or 45nm generation. This is a very big deal.
Indeed. Single-threaded speed has been the major drawback of Atom-based PCs.
That said it is still disappointing for in 2011 intel was promising AMD 1100t x6 phenom ii performance with goldmount/ apollo lake. Apollo Lake is simply just not there, but if they had another 30% clock speed and 2 more cores it would be there trading blows with a stock 1100t x6 phenom ii (pretty much the best of the phenom ii generation). Now why did Intel pick the phenom 1100t as a comparison? Well that was the best of AMD at the time.
I did not know that. Intel "promising" Phenom II X6 1100T performance, in an Atom CPU? That would be crazy. Maybe another shrink and they'll get there?
 

ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
31
91
No its faster than core 2 quad performance. A core 2 quad (q6600 at 2.4ghz) gets about 1200 to 1300 in geekbench for the single core vs this pentium apollo lake atom which rumored max clock speed is 2.5 ghz and it is getting in the upper 1300 to low 1400 in geekbench single thread.

Only when you set the baseline of core 2 quad at the 3.0 ghz 12mb cache q9650 or an overclocked 3 to 3.6 ghz q6600 will you see this number as "under" core 2 performance.

Clock for clock it looks like the new apollo lake atom is the same speed if not faster than core 2 quad of the 65nm or 45nm generation. This is a very big deal.

-----

This is great news, for hopefully storage speed whether emmc or ssd or hard drive is loads better than the crappy hard drives we had in 2006. Plus the integrated graphics of these apollo lake atoms are going to be loads better than the integrated graphics of 2006, and even better than most of the graphic cards in 2006 until you spend north of $200 for a graphic card that had a tdp of around 120 to 150watts (still a single 75w 6 pin for additional board power but still getting as close to that 150w as possible).

In other words as long as apollo lake devices are at least 4 cores, at least 2gb of memory (but hopefully windows will move the OEM licensing free cost to 4gbs), and a decent storage the bare minimum hardware sold to run windows or android will have its baseline moved so it will be less sucky for everyone. We can finally now run decent office and decent web apps and video on hardware that is so cheap we call it "crap hardware" or "crap tops."

Put another way this hardware shits all over the 1st gen macbook air (2008), and even is better than the 2nd generation macbook air (2010). It is not until 2011 where we seen the 2nd gen core i series that you will see the macbook airs beating this hardware and even then due to lower clock speeds using turbo to get better clcok speeds and the fact we are talking 2 core / 4 thread devices the 2011 macbook airs will be trading blows with the airs being faster in single thread but slower in multi thread. The 2nd generation macbook airs are also the same time Intel released its ultrabook spec.

So as long as we get good enough ram and good enough storage we are talking crap laptops that are competing against 2011 ultra portable hardware, or we are talking 2008 to 2009 desktop hardware but now in a 6w tdp and thus you will see lots of 10 to 13 inch computers that are ultraportable but also lots of 14 to 15" cheap laptops.

-----

That said it is still disappointing for in 2011 intel was promising AMD 1100t x6 phenom ii performance with goldmount/ apollo lake. Apollo Lake is simply just not there, but if they had another 30% clock speed and 2 more cores it would be there trading blows with a stock 1100t x6 phenom ii (pretty much the best of the phenom ii generation). Now why did Intel pick the phenom 1100t as a comparison? Well that was the best of AMD at the time.

So did Intel intentionally lie and overpromise and under deliver in their 2011 marketing to investors?

Not neccessarly at the time Intel had far more hopes for its 14nm process than what actually came out years later.

If Intel was targeting a 3.0 to 3.3 ghz ghz clock speed 5 years ago (instead of a 2.5 ghz clock speed) before they knew all of the 14nm characteristics than this number could have been possible and literally on the nose of the similar AMD hardware in Intel's mind.
Will Goldmont beat my Pentium M score in CPUmark99? If not, I'll stick with my 2004 laptop CPU haha.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
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Do you have a link to this promise?

Note this is not the only source, but the 1st one google polled up. It was talking about some marketing slides from an intel developer conference.

http://www.geek.com/chips/14nm-atom...6-core-amd-phenom-ii-10x-todays-atom-1407293/

No to be perfectly honest Intel in those marketing never mentioned AMD by name, instead the tech media did, but SPEC2000_IntRate but we can't test the SPEC2000_IntRate until we see devices out in the general public.

Also to be perfectly fair to intel Airmont is canceled, but Airmont was going to be the lower tdp version of Goldmont CPUs and Airmont was meant for tablets, while Apollo Lake is the higher tdp version meant for ultra convertible tablets and larger form factors.

I do not believe I was unfair to Intel in my previous comment, but I am now just playing the devil's advocate for myself. Note the word "promising" was supposed to be in finger quotes but you can't really do that with the internet.

Indeed. Single-threaded speed has been the major drawback of Atom-based PCs.

I did not know that. Intel "promising" Phenom II X6 1100T performance, in an Atom CPU? That would be crazy. Maybe another shrink and they'll get there?

See above link. Yes you and your love for damn cheap computing, (cheap being cheaper than me and I am already cheap ) is about to get a whole lot more bearable if Apollo Lake does what Intel Promised to do.

Now lets hope the OEMs do not screw it all up, for they are known to do that.
 

majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
509
710
136
No its faster than core 2 quad performance. A core 2 quad (q6600 at 2.4ghz) gets about 1200 to 1300 in geekbench for the single core vs this pentium apollo lake atom which rumored max clock speed is 2.5 ghz and it is getting in the upper 1300 to low 1400 in geekbench single thread.

Only when you set the baseline of core 2 quad at the 3.0 ghz 12mb cache q9650 or an overclocked 3 to 3.6 ghz q6600 will you see this number as "under" core 2 performance.

Clock for clock it looks like the new apollo lake atom is the same speed if not faster than core 2 quad of the 65nm or 45nm generation. This is a very big deal.
.

In the company of it's predecessor maybe it's a big deal I guess, - Ignoring the fact cherry trail brought nothing to the table CPU wise over it's predecesor , but as an upcoming product, in the overall landscape it's still pretty woeful overall, and is clear evidence of why they have completely handed the sub 5w market to ARM..

Looking at the modest IPC (leaving it around Jaguar levels -maybe slightly slower still outside geekbench) means it's Still Two issue, and still limited to the upper-mid 2Ghz range with a 6w-10w TDP , On what I'm sure most around here would argue is the best process node in existence.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,287
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Note this is not the only source, but the 1st one google polled up. It was talking about some marketing slides from an intel developer conference.

http://www.geek.com/chips/14nm-atom...6-core-amd-phenom-ii-10x-todays-atom-1407293/

So you are simply wrong, Intel didn't promise AMD 1100T x6 performance. This is compared just with an old Atom from Intel. Looking to the Silvermont and Goldmont gap in this slide it certainly is achievable when we compare the Geekbench difference. The problem is Goldmont is 1 year late.

Also to be perfectly fair to intel Airmont is canceled


Airmont isn't cancelled, it is available since ages. You can buy it in Braswell and Cherry Trail products.

Airmont was going to be the lower tdp version of Goldmont CPUs and Airmont was meant for tablets, while Apollo Lake is the higher tdp version meant for ultra convertible tablets and larger form factors.


This is ALL nonsense, you don't have a clue it seems. Goldmont is a different, new generation and the successor of Airmont CPU architecture.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
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Apollo Lake gets new B1 stepping:



www.computerbase.de/2016-08/intel-apollo-lake-b1-stepping


We’ve got the new Intel Pentium N4200 chip, part of the upcoming Apollo Lake, and here’s what to expect



As some of you remember, we did a short introduction, spiced up with more inside info, of the upcoming budget-centric Apollo Lake processors from Intel but now we are glad to tell you that a pre-production sample with Pentium N4200 just arrived in our office.

Aside from the significant energy consumption and performance increase, the CPU should bring support to some much-needed features in the low-end segment of the market and we will take the time to test it out in the following days. For now, we will let you know that the Pentium N4200 sports 4 cores clocked at 1.1 GHz and can go way up to 2.5 GHz. While the base frequency is much lower than the N3700 from the Braswell generation we reviewed a while back, the maximum burst frequency is slightly higher. Either this is an early sample unit or Intel has decided to lower the base frequency in exchange for prolonged battery life. Still, the TDP is ~6W and the cTDP is ~4W – just like before.

http://laptopmedia.com/news/weve-go...upcoming-apollo-lake-and-heres-what-to-expect

Results in the next few days.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
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Goldmont cores should bring a nice boost to ST performance, great news for budget notebooks.

That's great news. Current Cherry Trail dual-cores aren't even powerful enough for all web browsing these days.

I bought an Acer Cloudbook with an N3050, I think that's it, it's a 1.6Ghz dual-core. Anyways, I put Linux Mint 18 on there, and I browsed to my.verizon.net, the verizon user portal, that you use to login to their site to access your services.

Well, that site (with news blurbs flying by every few seconds), was so "busy", that it constantly showed the loading circle, and never settled down enough for me to actually click on the login button.

I had to use a different laptop to access it.

Edit: The above may not be true. It may be because the site opens up what appears to be a fly-out menu / dialog box, that has to be cancelled, before you can click on the "sign in" button. I had this same problem with my Lenovo with a Beema 1.8Ghz quad-core, so it can't be the CPU after all.
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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I needed a windows 10 machine to power a small spotify server.
It got the old bt 4 core 1.33 1.87 quad stuff for a 10 inch 2 in one lenovo crap book. Far more lean stuff than the old jaguar quad 1 1.4 stuff btw.
But man that is some slow stuff for browsing. My note 5 feels far faster.
But now i got all the good atom stuff for nas and spotify server in the slipstream of Intel shutting down the anual 4b discount. Lol.
Bye bye atom.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,203
126
This Christmas I would like to get my mother-in-law a new laptop to replace her old single-core Atom-based system. Apollo Lake should be perfect for this.

Single-core Atom? Whatever Atom CPU that is, it must pre-date the Bay Trail Atoms. Ouch!

Edit: I'm looking forward to a nice small, hopefully cheap, Brix unit with the N4200 or whatever J-model desktop version of that SoC. Hopefully it will support H.265 and HDMI 2.0, VGA, and SATA6G. (My J1900 Brix unit only supports SATAII, and no H.265 and no HDMI 2.0.)

Edit: This link says Intel's Apollo Lake NUC will have HDMI2.0.
http://nucblog.net/2016/07/first-details-coming-apollo-lake-kaby-lake-nucs-emerge/
 
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