The meaning of "patriot"

[cpl593h]

Hello all, I need your help to gather data for a project I?m working on. I won?t try to hide it?YES, this is for homework, but note that I?m not asking you to do my homework for me; this is linguistic data I need to gather before I actually begin my analysis.

Basically, what I need is some idea of the usage of the word ?patriot? in the lexicon. I have my own thoughts on it, but I need a wide range of responses from people of different backgrounds. I?ve got some of my own starter questions to begin, which you may choose to ignore if you wish:

Does the word have a particularly ?American? sense to you? Can there be Chinese patriots, or Indian patriots, or Australian patriots?

Does the word imply some degree of fanaticism? Can you be a liberal and still be a patriot? Can you be anti-war and still be a patriot? Does the word have negative connotations?

How much of a degree of devotion to your country makes you a patriot? Is it more than putting American flags on your car and saying ?NEVAR FORGET?? How long do you have to live in a country to be a patriot?

Is there a certain age you have to be in order to be a patriot? Is a 16 year old self described patriot ?less? of a patriot than a 40 year old one?

How would you order the "patrioticness" of the following people:
Harry S. Truman
Adolph Hitler
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush
Mao Zedong
Thomas Jefferson

Possibly the most interesting set of data I had in mind is the Patriot Act of 2001, which trades off some freedoms for national security. The dictionary definition of ?patriot? is a person who is proud of his or her country and presumably the ideals for which that country stands. In the US, this source of pride is ?the American way??the freedom of speech, the right to assemble, etc. ?Patriot Act? seems to include in the domain of ?patriot? a person who is also willing to give up some of those freedoms that are a source of pride. Is the ACLU )that is against the Patriot Act) therefore unpatriotic, even though they want to protect freedom? It?s quite paradoxical as you can imagine.

It also seems like you can only call an American patriotic. Adolph Hitler was undoubtedly proud of his country, but people tend to label him as ?nationalistic? rather than ?patriotic.? I also get a sense that Bush is more patriotic than Clinton, though I?m not entirely sure why precisely. It?s more related to the actions that each did (or are doing) in their terms rather than their personal characters.

 

[Phokus]

Of all the people you listed, i would say Thomas Jefferson was the only one who had wisdom and vision to do what's right for the country, knowing full well that government will always try to oppress it's own people and people of other nations. That is what i would call a patriot.

 

[Pepsi90919]

you'd better spell 'adolf' and 'mao tse-tung' correctly for your report fyi

 

[cpl593h]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
you'd better spell 'adolf' and 'mao tse-tung' correctly for your report fyi

Heh, you're right. Though I think Zedong is an accepted alternate spelling.

 

[cpl593h]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Of all the people you listed, i would say Thomas Jefferson was the only one who had wisdom and vision to do what's right for the country, knowing full well that government will always try to oppress it's own people and people of other nations. That is what i would call a patriot.

Even if you don't think anybody else on the list is patriotic, which do you think are more patriotic than the others? I agree that Thomas Jefferson is undoubtedly the most patriotic person on the list (that's one of the reasons I put it there) but is Harry S. Truman more or less patriotic than George W. Bush?

 

[Konigin]

nationalistic

patriotic

Yes, is does seem "American", but I guess thats because I live in this country and never had allegiance to another. I think there can be patriots from any country.

People can be patriots, though many have different ideas and way of expressing them.

How much degree? I think some people express patriotism more openly than others, some do not, but I don't think that is means that one is more patriotic than the other. It is what you believe in that counts. You don't have to live in the country for your whole life to be patriotic. I know people that are not even citizizens of this country yet who are more patriotic than people who have lived here their whole lives.

Age does not matter. No one is "less" of a patriot because they are younger (or older).

In order:
Thomas Jefferson
Adolf Hitler
George W. Bush
Mao Tse-tung
Harry S. Truman
Bill Clinton

EDIT: I agree with what cpl593h said, it is hard to place these people in a list in order of their patriotism, though I think the top two are in teh correct order.

 

[Lonyo]

If oil was a country, I would say Bush was the most patriotic of the lot, but oil isn't a country, so he's not.

 

[Colt45]

the patriot act is just initials P.A.T.R.I.O.T.

nothing patriotic about it. (the acronym slips me at the momemnt.. )

edit:

Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

 

[cpl593h]

Originally posted by: Colt45
the patriot act is just initials P.A.T.R.I.O.T.

nothing patriotic about it. (the acronym slips me at the momemnt.. )

edit:

Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

I disagree. Sure, it's an acronym, but why was PATRIOT chosen over any other random jumble of letters? There has to be a reason. How about Patriot Missles?

Originally posted by: Konigin
nationalistic

patriotic

No cribbing ! The idea is to get a definition of patriot in common usage, NOT any static definition. The lexicon moves faster than any dictionary can be updated.

How much degree? I think some people express patriotism more openly than others, some do not, but I don't think that is means that one is more patriotic than the other. It is what you believe in that counts. You don't have to live in the country for your whole life to be patriotic. I know people that are not even citizizens of this country yet who are more patriotic than people who have lived here their whole lives.

Age does not matter. No one is "less" of a patriot because they are younger (or older).

In order:
Thomas Jefferson
Adolf Hitler
George W. Bush
Mao Tse-tung
Harry S. Truman
Bill Clinton

EDIT: I agree with what cpl593h said, it is hard to place these people in a list in order of their patriotism, though I think the top two are in teh correct order.

I think that age and experience does matter. Given a set of a WW2 Veteran, the President of the United States, and a 12 year old kid waving an American flag, I don't think anybody would hesitate in saying that the WW2 Veteran is the "most" patriotic. Patriot to me isn't a simple binary category-- I think there are graded degrees of membership. There are no wrong answers in this discussion though.

 

[Konigin]

Originally posted by: cpl593h

Originally posted by: Colt45
the patriot act is just initials P.A.T.R.I.O.T.

nothing patriotic about it. (the acronym slips me at the momemnt.. )

edit:

Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

I disagree. Sure, it's an acronym, but why was PATRIOT chosen over any other random jumble of letters? There has to be a reason. How about Patriot Missles?

Originally posted by: Konigin
nationalistic

patriotic

No cribbing ! The idea is to get a definition of patriot in common usage, NOT any static definition. The lexicon moves faster than any dictionary can be updated.

How much degree? I think some people express patriotism more openly than others, some do not, but I don't think that is means that one is more patriotic than the other. It is what you believe in that counts. You don't have to live in the country for your whole life to be patriotic. I know people that are not even citizizens of this country yet who are more patriotic than people who have lived here their whole lives.

Age does not matter. No one is "less" of a patriot because they are younger (or older).

In order:
Thomas Jefferson
Adolf Hitler
George W. Bush
Mao Tse-tung
Harry S. Truman
Bill Clinton

EDIT: I agree with what cpl593h said, it is hard to place these people in a list in order of their patriotism, though I think the top two are in teh correct order.

I think that age and experience does matter. Given a set of a WW2 Veteran, the President of the United States, and a 12 year old kid waving an American flag, I don't think anybody would hesitate in saying that the WW2 Veteran is the "most" patriotic. Patriot to me isn't a simple binary category-- I think there are graded degrees of membership. There are no wrong answers in this discussion though.

I disagree. I think that age does not matter, though experience is probably the way one could define the "degrees" of patriotism. You compaired a WWII vet with the President, while age and experience is a factor there, only experience would be a factor compairing a Vietnam vet with the current President because they would be about the same age.

 

[BennyD]

to me it means ignorance and zenophobia

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: cpl593h

Originally posted by: Colt45
the patriot act is just initials P.A.T.R.I.O.T.

nothing patriotic about it. (the acronym slips me at the momemnt.. )

edit:

Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

I disagree. Sure, it's an acronym, but why was PATRIOT chosen over any other random jumble of letters? There has to be a reason. How about Patriot Missles?

I personally think the name was chosen so that rights could be removed without people causing a big deal about it. "hey, we can't shoot down that act.. that would be unpatriotic"

 

[justint]

Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious.

- Oscar Wilde

 

[KickItTwice]

To me a patriot is someone who is willing to make a sacrifise to serve for their country. There are a lot of people that talk all kinds of crap, but when the going gets tough, they will bail out in an instant.
As for Hitler being a patriot, I think your wrong because I think Hitler was in it all for himself.

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: Colt45

Originally posted by: cpl593h

Originally posted by: Colt45
the patriot act is just initials P.A.T.R.I.O.T.

nothing patriotic about it. (the acronym slips me at the momemnt.. )

edit:

Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism

I disagree. Sure, it's an acronym, but why was PATRIOT chosen over any other random jumble of letters? There has to be a reason. How about Patriot Missles?

I personally think the name was chosen so that rights could be removed without people causing a big deal about it. "hey, we can't shoot down that act.. that would be unpatriotic"

Yeah, how could a Senator vote against the PATRIOT Act? A challenger could just say, "so and so voted against the PATRIOT Act, an act which helps fight terrorism."