The Mexico Immigration Double-Standard

[ToeJam13]

History:
Lately, both legal and illegal immigrants, mainly of Mexican decent, have been protesting several proposed laws that would make entering the United States of America through illegal means, or overstaying the dates and terms of a visa, a felony.

These immigrants have stated that by making the rules that govern foreign citizens who are not in compliance a felony rather than a misdemeanor, that the inalienable human rights of these people are being compromised. Furthermore, they claim that the proponents of such changes to U.S. immigration law are racists who hate people who are of Latino decent.

What is interesting is that Mexico itself has extremely restrictive laws concerning people who were not born on Mexican soil, even if they have become naturalized citizens. An American who moves to Mexico and is granted citizenship is truly a second-class citizen for the rest of their lives. Both nations born mainly of immigrants, but with radically different laws for immigrants.


Note:
In the Mexican Constitution, foreigners are people who were not born within the borders of the United Mexican States. Naturalized citizens are also considered foreigners.

* Mexicans have priority over foreigners for all employment, positions or commissions (Article 31)
* Foreigners may not serve in the Army, police or public security forces unless drafted for purposes of war (Article 31)
* Foreigners may not in any way participate in any political affairs of the country. (Article 33)
* Foreigners may not hold an office in the federal government. (Articles 33, 55, 58, 95)
* Foreigners and first generation Mexican citizens may not hold the office of the president (Article 82)
* Foreigners may not own land within 100Km of a border or 50Km of a coast (Article 27, Federal Law)


Example:
On 2002-05-01, eighteen American citizens were participating in the May Day marches in Mexico City and Guadalajara, protesting unfair expropriation of land near Mexico City for a new airport. On 2002-05-02, Instituto Nacional de Migracion (Immigrations Mexico) revoked their travel visas and they were forcibly removed from the country.


Next Monday, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants (mainly of Mexican decent) will join in protest marches in the Phoenix area. Not only would these people also be considered criminals in Mexico, a felony in Mexico, but they would be also deported simply for interfering with the politics of a sovereign nation that is not their own. The hypocrisy is clear. Waving the flag of a blatantly racist nation, Mexican nationals are demanding from us what they would not give in return.

What is even clearer is that the spirit of article 33 of the Mexican Constitution has practical application in this nation. It is being undermined from within by people whose allegiance is closer to that of Mexico than it is of the United States of America. From local officials to federal representatives, many Mexican expatriates have little desire to enforce existing laws against people of their former homeland. Furthermore, proposals to strengthen those laws are being blocked by those same government officials who have a conflict of national allegiance.

If the United States should bring anything from Mexico, it should not be millions its citizens who flout immigration law, but rather those constitutional articles that hold foreigners accountable.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
History:
Lately, both legal and illegal immigrants, mainly of Mexican decent, have been protesting several proposed laws that would make entering the United States of America through illegal means, or overstaying the dates and terms of a visa, a felony.

These immigrants have stated that by making the rules that govern foreign citizens who are not in compliance a felony rather than a misdemeanor, that the inalienable human rights of these people are being compromised. Furthermore, they claim that the proponents of such changes to U.S. immigration law are racists who hate people who are of Latino decent.

What is interesting is that Mexico itself has extremely restrictive laws concerning people who were not born on Mexican soil, even if they have become naturalized citizens. An American who moves to Mexico and is granted citizenship is truly a second-class citizen for the rest of their lives. Both nations born mainly of immigrants, but with radically different laws for immigrants.


Note:
In the Mexican Constitution, foreigners are people who were not born within the borders of the United Mexican States. Naturalized citizens are also considered foreigners.

* Mexicans have priority over foreigners for all employment, positions or commissions (Article 31)
* Foreigners may not serve in the Army, police or public security forces unless drafted for purposes of war (Article 31)
* Foreigners may not in any way participate in any political affairs of the country. (Article 33)
* Foreigners may not hold an office in the federal government. (Articles 33, 55, 58, 95)
* Foreigners and first generation Mexican citizens may not hold the office of the president (Article 82)
* Foreigners may not own land within 100Km of a border or 50Km of a coast (Article 27, Federal Law)


Example:
On 2002-05-01, eighteen American citizens were participating in the May Day marches in Mexico City and Guadalajara, protesting unfair expropriation of land near Mexico City for a new airport. On 2002-05-02, Instituto Nacional de Migracion (Immigrations Mexico) revoked their travel visas and they were forcibly removed from the country.


Next Monday, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants (mainly of Mexican decent) will join in protest marches in the Phoenix area. Not only would these people also be considered criminals in Mexico, a felony in Mexico, but they would be also deported simply for interfering with the politics of a sovereign nation that is not their own. The hypocrisy is clear. Waving the flag of a blatantly racist nation, Mexican nationals are demanding from us what they would not give in return.

What is even clearer is that the spirit of article 33 of the Mexican Constitution has practical application in this nation. It is being undermined from within by people whose allegiance is closer to that of Mexico than it is of the United States of America. From local officials to federal representatives, many Mexican expatriates have little desire to enforce existing laws against people of their former homeland. Furthermore, proposals to strengthen those laws are being blocked by those same government officials who have a conflict of national allegiance.

If the United States should bring anything from Mexico, it should not be millions its citizens who flout immigration law, but rather those constitutional articles that hold foreigners accountable.

These people may be of Mexican descent, but to equate them with the laws of Mexico is reaching IMO.

 

[flavio]

The Mexican government isn't protesting the proposed laws....therefore it's not a double standard for them to have restrictive policies on immigration. Double standard is when a standard is applied differently to two different groups by the same entity.

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: sandorski

These people may be of Mexican descent, but to equate them with the laws of Mexico is reaching IMO.

They seem to want to pretent like they are still living in Mexico, or would rather be living in Mexio... I see no problem with it.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: sandorski

These people may be of Mexican descent, but to equate them with the laws of Mexico is reaching IMO.

They seem to want to pretent like they are still living in Mexico, or would rather be living in Mexio... I see no problem with it.

They do?

 

[Jaskalas]

Don't worry, they'll soon be allowed to fly their flag over our government buildings. Oh wait, they already are with these protests.

They are Mexican nationals who are 100% loyal to their home country. They should live where their loyalties lie, and not change our culture into their own.

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: flavio
The Mexican government isn't protesting the proposed laws....therefore it's not a double standard for them to have restrictive policies on immigration. Double standard is when a standard is applied differently to two different groups by the same entity.

Actually, the Mexican government IS protesting the House version of the bill since they have repeatedly called for amnesty.

President Fox of Mexico has denounced the border fence as "shameful". His foreign minister, Luis Ernesto Derbez, denounced it as "stupid and underhanded".

Furthermore, President Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, stated "the demonstrations (in America) showed the imminent need for an immigration accord that meets the interests of both the United States and Mexico".

Mexico's deputy secretary for North America, Geronimo Gutierrez, praised the Senate Judiciary Committee's bill and said Fox's government has "moderate and cautious optimism" for a favorable outcome in Congress.

Mexico has stated on several occasions that it supports the idea of the United States government granting amnesty for Mexican nationals who currently reside illegally within the U.S.

One of the latest occasions came on March 20 when Mexico published advertisements in major newspapers in Mexico and in the United States saying migrants should have the same rights as everyone else and asking that the two countries reach a migration accord. "it is indispensable to find a solution for the undocumented population that lives in the United States and contributes to the development of the country, so that people can be fully incorporated into their actual communities, with the same rights and duties"

President Vicente Fox's spokesman Ruben Aguilar said that Mexico published the ads to make the government's views "better known and evaluated by relevant actors who participate in the migration debate."

 

[lozina]

I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: lozina
I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

Because these immigrants send a large portion of their pay back to Mexico. Billions and billions of dollars......

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: lozina
I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

I don't think Mexico will complain when we take in their poverty and educate/medicate them off our tax dollars. As for Mexico losing taxes, when was the last time the poor have successfully been taxed? It's the rich and everyone in-between we tax these days.

Then when they have majority populations in our states, they?ll simply vote to annex themselves back to Mexico and be richer in the end while gaining land that they consider stolen from them back in 1849.

 

[Zebo]

What's your point? We are better than Mexico, Thailand or any other place and will continue to be. Pretty low bar you got set there if all you want to achive is Mexicos rights record.

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: Jmman

Originally posted by: lozina
I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

Because these immigrants send a large portion of their pay back to Mexico. Billions and billions of dollars......

You are Correct!

Fox said Mexicans in the United States sent home $12 billion in 2003, making remittances the second-largest source of foreign income for Mexico, exceeded only by oil sales.

Source

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Jmman

Originally posted by: lozina
I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

Because these immigrants send a large portion of their pay back to Mexico. Billions and billions of dollars......

That, plus the United States foots the bill for these people's health care, schooling, etc. so the Mexican government doesn't have to. Illegal immigration solves a lot of problems for the Mexican government.

 

[Stunt]

So the US has more reasonable laws that a 3rd world country?
...I would hope so!

The immigration issue is on rights and freedoms, not comparing one nation to another.

 

[ToeJam13]

What's your point? We are better than Mexico

When it comes to immigration? No we?re not.

Tell me how having ten million undocumented people in the United States helps me. Tell me how an insecure border helps me. Tell me how having expatriates with stronger loyalties to their birth country than their host country helps me.

It doesn't.

So the US has more reasonable laws that a 3rd world country?

Switzerland has tighter controls and better enforcement of its immigration policy than the United States. Legal immigrants have fewer rights under Swiss law than immigrants do under US law. I guess Switzerland is a worse place because of it.

Oh wait, it has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Much higher than that of the United States.

I guess you don't need open borders to be a great place. How about that.

 

[Zebo]

Tell me how having millions of undocumented illegals in this nation benefits me. It doesn't.

All too easy. You know those high home prices everyone is complain about these days? Well double or triple those prices since natives would demand $35 an hour to be out there 30ft up in sweltering heat pounding nails not $10-12 like illegals get. Doubt it? Look at what GM and Ford have to pay thier labor Labor is #1 cost of goods and services. You know all these companies "outsourceing" well triple that exodus rate too with no access to cheap labor. Food triple it. Eating out, triple it.

Then there are the unquantifable/spirtual benefits. Doing the right thing taking in people fleeing stangeling poverty. Good Tacorias. More Diversity.

Unless you are a construction worker or short order cook I don't see how you even have a right to complain - you should be welcoming Central and south Americans with open arms because of benefits I mentioned.

 

[her209]

Time for a coup d'état of the Mexican government?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Tell me how having millions of undocumented illegals in this nation benefits me. It doesn't.

All too easy. You know those high home prices everyone is complain about these days? Well double or triple those prices since natives would demand $35 an hour to be out there 30ft up in sweltering heat pounding nails not $10-12 like illegals get. Doubt it? Look at what GM and Ford have to pay thier labor Labor is #1 cost of goods and services. You know all these companies "outsourceing" well triple that exodus rate too with no access to cheap labor. Food triple it. Eating out, triple it.

Then there are the unquantifable/spirtual benefits. Doing the right thing taking in people fleeing stangeling poverty. Good Tacorias. More Diversity.

Unless you are a construction worker or short order cook I don't see how you even have a right to complain - you should be welcoming Central and south Americans with open arms because of benefits I mentioned.

Uh, all the new homes around here are built by Americans and are not overpriced like they are in California. I just bought a new construction 1600 sq ft house in a great neighborhood for $150k... other houses are still going up all around and the work crews don't contain a single Hispanic, and if any of the white guys are illegal, I'd be very very surprised.

I go down the street to Lowe's. Lots of Americans there, too. No day laborers in the parking lot. I go into a restaurant. Funny, no illegals there either - lots of high school kids though. People have lawn services here - amazing that a white guy can mow a lawn - I though that was "a job that no American would do(tm)!"

The guy that empties the trash in my office - American as apple pie.

So yes, Americans do these jobs and don't cost an arm and a leg.

So tell me again how I'm benefiting from ERs in California closing down due to mass illegal immigration?

 

[ToeJam13]

You know those high home prices everyone is complain about these days? ...double or triple those prices...

Prices are going up mainly due to the increased cost of land and the increased cost of materials. In my area, the price of land has gone up 250% in four years. Raw materials are going up 16% annually due to the massive demand from China. Lastly, the average size of homes is going up in this country since builders make more profit off of larger homes.

When traditional stick framing becomes too expensive, prefab walls will take over. Look at how siding took over when brick laying became too expensive. Sit down and watch a show like Hometime or This Old House and see how technology is decreasing the labor needed for much of the insides of home building.

Survey says? bulls**t.

Look at what GM and Ford have to pay their labor Labor is #1 cost of goods and services.

GM and Ford pay outrageous rates because the UAW is a corrupt union. The union and those two have been in a downward spiral for the past thirty years. Upper management gives itself a massive pay raise and the union feels entitles to a massive pay raise themselves. Those companies and that union deserve themselves.

Toyota, Hyndai and Mitsubishi don't have the same problem with their workers here in the States. They pay their workers roughly 1/3rd the overall wages (take-home wages + benefits + retirement) than the big two American companies do.

Survey says? bulls**t.

Food triple it. Eating out, triple it.

So paying the dishwasher $7/hr instead of $3/hr is going to triple the costs of my meal?


Survey says? triple bulls**t.


Zebo, you really have been spoon fed the bulls**t that illegals are using the justify their being here. Every example you have used is either wrong or a red herring.

In general, labor does not make up the majority of an item's cost. When it does, either automation kicks in or the process is simplified. Labor based inflation is usually kept in check by legal immigration and the natural growth of the population.

Get off your armchair and go hang out with a business tax preparer or a business owner themselves. Look over their books. For most non-service companies, labor is far below the cost of facilities and materials.

Whatever costs I might save in labor for an item, I pay more in taxes. Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion ($2,700 per illegal household)

* Medicaid ($2.5 billion)
* Uninsured health ($2.2 billion)
* Food assistance ($1.9 billion)
* Courts & prisons ($1.6 billion)
* Schools ($1.4 billion)

Since many states are in the middle of a tax revolt, those numbers are lower in part to reduced services.


Survey says? Zebo is full of bulls**t.

 

[Jaskalas]

They can start by denouncing Mexico and actually wanting American culture. This is a battle of nationalism and sovereignty and right now we?re passively inviting them in with open arms as they plan to become new voters by the tens of millions.

You may want to read up on what the University of New Mexico thinks about all of this.

http://www.unm.edu/~ecdn/

 

[alphatarget1]

Illegal immigrants, once naturalized/got permanent residency, will probably no longer work for pennies on the dollar (which isn't right in the first place, for those advocating the reason that they should become legal), so the economic benefit is questionable. I hate to use that word based on the fact that illegals *are* getting the shaft, and wanting them to stay because of economic benefits is really wrong. Would you work for a dollar an hour (or however much they get paid)?

For amnesty proponents: To expect the majority of illegal Mexican immigrants to pledge loyalty to the United States after gaining status is simply idiotic. There are some Mexicans that call the US home, but I would say at least 60% of them still consider Mexico home and one day they'll want to make California their own again (which is probably going to happen down the road). I think it's a crock of sh!t that the Mexican Government has anti-immigration laws and then expect us to take care of their poor. What they need to do is fix up their country so that we could have normal borders like Canada and the US. Neighboring countries should be nice to each other (there are no more borders within EU countries), not try to screw each other over.

What we need to do is sit down and do a study on this issue, without any special interest involvement, and then decide where to go from there. The economic impact on the US, the impact on illegal immigrants already here, etc. I personally think that the government should offer some sort of educational program for immigrants so that they can blend into the host culture better, instead of sticking to their own community. The ethnic communities are usually the most problematic ones in terms of crime and stuff.

 

[Moonbeam]

So what are we going to call the new country of Mexico and the USA combined? We might as well just merge.

Amexica Amexica, God shed his light on thee, and crown thy good with La Raza from sea to shining sea.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: lozina
I never really understood why is Mexican government so eager of their people emigrating, to the point of actually assisting them emigrate? Aren't they losing out from their population leaving in mass exodus? Less taxes? (err well I guess these people don't pay taxes anywhere)

Because if they stay in Mexico they could end up becoming political agitators. From the perspective of the Mexican government, would you rather have 12 million angry, impoverished, energetic working-aged people who'd like to overthrow the government mulling around, or would you rather have 12 million relatively contented people earn money in the U.S. and send it back to Mexico, helping to prop up your regime?

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Tell me how having millions of undocumented illegals in this nation benefits me. It doesn't.

All too easy. You know those high home prices everyone is complain about these days? Well double or triple those prices since natives would demand $35 an hour to be out there 30ft up in sweltering heat pounding nails not $10-12 like illegals get. Doubt it? Look at what GM and Ford have to pay thier labor Labor is #1 cost of goods and services. You know all these companies "outsourceing" well triple that exodus rate too with no access to cheap labor. Food triple it. Eating out, triple it.

Then there are the unquantifable/spirtual benefits. Doing the right thing taking in people fleeing stangeling poverty. Good Tacorias. More Diversity.

Unless you are a construction worker or short order cook I don't see how you even have a right to complain - you should be welcoming Central and south Americans with open arms because of benefits I mentioned.

I know plenty of American contractors who work for $10-15 an hour.....nice try reaching for that $35 hour standard which very few contractors are making.......not to mention the $35 they make, most of them pay taxes on.......

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Tell me how having millions of undocumented illegals in this nation benefits me. It doesn't.

All too easy. You know those high home prices everyone is complain about these days? Well double or triple those prices since natives would demand $35 an hour to be out there 30ft up in sweltering heat pounding nails not $10-12 like illegals get. Doubt it? Look at what GM and Ford have to pay thier labor Labor is #1 cost of goods and services. You know all these companies "outsourceing" well triple that exodus rate too with no access to cheap labor. Food triple it. Eating out, triple it.

Then there are the unquantifable/spirtual benefits. Doing the right thing taking in people fleeing stangeling poverty. Good Tacorias. More Diversity.

Unless you are a construction worker or short order cook I don't see how you even have a right to complain - you should be welcoming Central and south Americans with open arms because of benefits I mentioned.

Companies are free to move to Mexico to enjoy the cheap labor. However, they are not free to move Mexico to their company to enjoy the cheap labor.

Just think how big of a hacinda you could afford in Mexico. Enjoy!!